Why Collectors Edition is not a Rip-Off!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/648652#Comment_648652

I think something has gone wrong with the upgrade pricing. Please see the screenshot below. I am going to post a bug report as well.

Todd Phillips

It must be a mistake. Something is seriously wrong with the the site.

It's not just Collector's:

Diamond, Portfolio and Collectors are all showing the exact same resource listings as Platinum, but displaying different prices.

Here's my Collector's pricing:

That's over $600 per resource.

SteveF

"Super" This has to be a glitch in the web-site?

I will never buy this BUT look how much I would have to pay!

"Your exclusive upgrade price: $7,850.13" - for 189 "resources" which includes the 40 some data sets/image files etc.

I think "not" [:)]

Mark Smith

Something truly is wrong with Collector's Edition at this point. Here's what I am seeing:

That's it. Seventy five resources (I had L5 Platinum and now have L6 Baptist Platinum and some others, but a couple of days ago I was to receive hundreds of new resources.

My price?

Uh...no.

Now a look at Portfolio:

Yes seventy five resources, the same as I would get in Collector's Edition. The price is better but still not tempting.

I hope this is an issue with the web site and not with the package contents.

Keith Larson

Does anyone have a screen shot of the original contents? I really didn't think it was necessary to do this. What stuff was taken out, so I can check I received everything I paid for.

Mark Smith

Here's Diamond:

The price is improving.

Now Platinum:

Same contents but a much nicer price.

So something needs fixing.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/648655#Comment_648655

Does anyone have a screen shot of the original contents? I really didn't think it was necessary to do this. What stuff was taken out, so I can check I received everything I paid for.

I am sure Logos will make it right. I think it is probably just a new bug with the dynamic pricing.

Gabe Martini (Faithlife)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/648659#Comment_648659

Hi all, sorry about this confusion. There is definitely a glitch in the XML that displays the Logos 6 Standard base packages. We hope to have it corrected shortly. The actual contents of the package have not been affected.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/648662#Comment_648662

There is definitely a glitch in the XML that displays the Logos 6 Standard base packages

When concerns about the early release of L6 were raised, Bob Pritchett said "this is not our first rodeo." From where I am sitting the cowboy has fallen off his horse several times now.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/648655#Comment_648655

Does anyone have a screen shot of the original contents? I really didn't think it was necessary to do this. What stuff was taken out, so I can check I received everything I paid for.

I know that the following items were removed from Collector's Edition. I've yet to hear back from Logos about what they are going to do about it.

Clarke's Commentary, New Testament (2 vols.) *
Clarke's Commentary, Old Testament (4 vols.) *
Flavius Josephus Collection (5 vols.)
Greek Apocryphal Gospels, Fragments and Agrapha: Introductions and Translations
The Epistles of St. Clement to the Corinthians in Syriac
Vindiciae Ignatianae; or, The Genuine Writings of St. Ignatius as Exhibited in the Ancient Syriac Version, Vindicated from the Charge of Heresy
A Popular Account of Discoveries at Nineveh

A Second Series of the Monuments of Nineveh
Inscriptions in the Cuneiform Character from Assyrian Monuments
The Monuments of Nineveh
The Nineveh Court in the Crystal Palace
Theology of the Old Testament: Testimony, Dispute, Advocacy
Near East Archaeological Society Bulletin (1958–2013) (78 issues) *
20th Century Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge (Bio Entries)
Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth (2 Tim. 2:15): Ten Outline Studies of the More Important Divisions of Scripture

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/648683#Comment_648683

Does anyone have a screen shot of the original contents? I really didn't think it was necessary to do this. What stuff was taken out, so I can check I received everything I paid for.

I know that the following items were removed from Collector's Edition. I've yet to hear back from Logos about what they are going to do about it.

Clarke's Commentary, New Testament (2 vols.) *
Clarke's Commentary, Old Testament (4 vols.) *
Flavius Josephus Collection (5 vols.)
Greek Apocryphal Gospels, Fragments and Agrapha: Introductions and Translations
The Epistles of St. Clement to the Corinthians in Syriac
Vindiciae Ignatianae; or, The Genuine Writings of St. Ignatius as Exhibited in the Ancient Syriac Version, Vindicated from the Charge of Heresy
A Popular Account of Discoveries at Nineveh

A Second Series of the Monuments of Nineveh
Inscriptions in the Cuneiform Character from Assyrian Monuments
The Monuments of Nineveh
The Nineveh Court in the Crystal Palace
Theology of the Old Testament: Testimony, Dispute, Advocacy
Near East Archaeological Society Bulletin (1958–2013) (78 issues) *
20th Century Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge (Bio Entries)
Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth (2 Tim. 2:15): Ten Outline Studies of the More Important Divisions of Scripture

I didn't check every last one of these, but at least the first four on your list are included.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/648683#Comment_648683

Actually, I apologize, because Phil Gons did say this in another thread:

The reason I'm asking is because some of us need to check if we're getting all the resources they've promised.

Myself bought the Collector Edition + all denomination packages blindly at 6am PST when Logos went dark.

So, to be fair.. Logos needs to deliver whatever they promised.

(I have a strong feeling Logos is removing resources what they promised from the first hour)

Mike, unfortunately there were some discrepancies in some of the resource lists when the site went live. I'm really sorry about that. The comparison chart, upgrade page, and product detail page were slightly out of sync in a few cases. We have the site on nine different servers, and there could have been some variation depending on which server you were on. We've been making some small tweaks to a couple of the packages' resources lists to make sure they align. The good news is that they were very minor in most cases, the product configuration itself wasn't the issue, and dynamic prices weren't affected.

I understand your desire to have everything you're supposed to have. And you will. What you were charged for is what was unlocked for you. We are not removing any resources from the collection you purchased. We are fixing a few display discrepancies. In the case where we remove something from a resource list, you weren't charged for it because it wasn't in the collection. In the case where we add something to a resource list, you were charged for it because it was in the collection.

If you have concerns that you weren't delivered what you expected, we'd be happy to look into it or issue you a refund. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help: phil@faithlife.com. I'm sorry for the frustration.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/648689#Comment_648689

I didn't check every last one of these, but at least the first four on your list are included.

Interesting, as I don't own it?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/648697#Comment_648697

I didn't check every last one of these, but at least the first four on your list are included.

Interesting, as I don't own it?

Are any of the others not showing as you owning them? I am noticing that the Josephus set just disappeared from the website listing, but the rest all seem to be present.

James Chandler

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/648680#Comment_648680

There is definitely a glitch in the XML that displays the Logos 6 Standard base packages

When concerns about the early release of L6 were raised, Bob Pritchett said "this is not our first rodeo." From where I am sitting the cowboy has fallen off his horse several times now.

LOL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/648711#Comment_648711

Yes, but my point is that they aren't in my library. I was wrong about Greek Apocryphal Gospels, and Rightly Dividing the Word. I found them.

However, many of the others I listed are still missing.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/648697#Comment_648697

Interesting, as I don't own it?

I can confirm that I am seeing the same thing. This was definitely listed in the contents of the package, but does not appear in my library.

Although I take Phil's point and accept that I was not charged for it, it is a little disappointing that the Princeton Theological Review was withdrawn from the original contents. It was a factor in my ordering this package (although I accept that Faithlife's return policy is very generous).

It is a little disappointing that these two items were pulled (albeit to correct the original erroneous list), but my bigger concern is understanding what else has been removed from the original line up so I at least know what is missing. I do have the original list, but it is a huge job to go through and check item by item. For example, some of the stuff on your 'missing' list, Tanner, is in my library and is, at least for the moment, listed in the contents for the Collector's Edition.

This confusion is less than ideal.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/648726#Comment_648726

They must still be working out the kinks on some those issues Phil pointed out in his post you quoted.

However, there are several in your list that have asterisks that indicate that they are still in the development stage. You should receive those resources when they are finished being produced.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/648726#Comment_648726

However, many of the others I listed are still missing.

Curious and curiouser.

I have just checked these three specific items. I don't have St Clement or Ninevah even though they were listed in the original package.

I do have Theology of the Old Testament and this did download with the original purchase (and is still listed on the contents page for the Collector's Edition). However, when I check the item individually, it is showing as available for purchase. The website is even allowing me to add it to my cart (normally it would be removed as a duplicate purchase).

This then leads me to wonder if there are still issues with Faithlife's database and servers. If this is the case, I am confident it will all be sorted out. It would be good to have a little more clarification from Faithlife in order to understand what is going on and what we should expect.

Ray from Faithlife

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/648729#Comment_648729

It was a factor in my ordering this package

Give us a call.(800-875-6467) We'd love a chance to set that right.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/648729#Comment_648729

Although I take Phil's point and accept that I was not charged for it, it

I would like to know how these items were removed yet my upgrade price did not change.

William Gabriel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/648683#Comment_648683

I don't have an original list (I'm not sure I ever saw it as I could not get on the website at all on Monday), but I did take snapshots of the packages yesterday. Here's what I've seen.

8400.Logos6Base.zip

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/648729#Comment_648729

Interesting, as I don't own it?

I can confirm that I am seeing the same thing. This was definitely listed in the contents of the package, but does not appear in my library.

Although I take Phil's point and accept that I was not charged for it, it is a little disappointing that the Princeton Theological Review was withdrawn from the original contents. It was a factor in my ordering this package (although I accept that Faithlife's return policy is very generous).

It is a little disappointing that these two items were pulled (albeit to correct the original erroneous list), but my bigger concern is understanding what else has been removed from the original line up so I at least know what is missing. I do have the original list, but it is a huge job to go through and check item by item. For example, some of the stuff on your 'missing' list, Tanner, is in my library and is, at least for the moment, listed in the contents for the Collector's Edition.

This confusion is less than ideal.

It looks like I made a mistake or two when I originally compiled my list, I indeed have a couple of those titles that I said I don't.

I'm just frustrated because I ordered Monday evening and compiled this list early Tuesday morning. I called about it and sent an e-mail regarding the issue. Every time I check in, I get stonewalled.

I had this exact same problem when I purchased L5 Portfolio, and Logos was eager to check into the issue and resolved it quickly to my satisfaction. To use their lingo they "did the right thing." However, now I am being ignored and it's pretty frustrating. I wasn't going to post my list on the forums before, because I felt it wasn't fair to Logos. I knew they were having some trouble and wasn't going to advertise to everyone what I had dug up. However, I am beginning to realize that complaining on the forum is the quickest way to be heard. =/

Also, I realize Logos is swamped right now. I don't expect to get immediate service, and I realize that there are probably many others with the same issue, and they have to decide what to do about it. However, I have checked in several times since my early morning Tuesday e-mail and have not received much response.

Also, Jonathan, there is a difference between a Pre-pub I have a license for, and one I do not. I can purchase one and the other I cannot.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/648749#Comment_648749

I would like to know how these items were removed yet my upgrade price did not change.

I don't pretend to understand the tech-y side of it, but understand that Phil is saying that the list was wrong (a display issue), but the price was right. I presume, therefore, whatever algorithm powers the pricing was referencing the right resources.

I presume. [:S]

Gabe Martini (Faithlife)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/648749#Comment_648749

Although I take Phil's point and accept that I was not charged for it, it

I would like to know how these items were removed yet my upgrade price did not change.

There's an important difference between information being displayed erroneously on the website (driven by "static" information at times) and the actual content of our base packages. To my knowledge, we have actually only added volumes to base packages this week (again, the actual downloading content), and have not removed any resources.

What's being displayed on both the comparison chart and upgrade pages (they are sourced from the same data) is an issue (at least for the Logos 6 Standard chart) that is being addressed. Our server and web issues this week have made keeping that information accurate (and saving info!) a bit of an uphill battle. We are very sorry for the confusion, of course, but are not taking any content away.

Even with inaccurate info being displayed, this should not affect the total value or upgrade/dynamic price of your purchase.

Please contact us if you think something still isn't right, and we'll be happy to work with you. [:)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/648745#Comment_648745

Give us a call.(800-875-6467) We'd love a chance to set that right.

Thanks for the reply, Ray. It is appreciated.

I am actually in the UK and it is difficult to make contact by phone. I have dropped you a message via Faithlife instead. I trust this is okay.

Blessings

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/648655#Comment_648655

Does anyone have a screen shot of the original contents? I really didn't think it was necessary to do this. What stuff was taken out, so I can check I received everything I paid for.

I posted a screenshot I took of how the Collector's Edition looked late in the day on rollout day (Monday) over on this other thread. Yes, there were a few titles in that list which are no longer displayed as part of the CE. What we're being told is that they never were part of CE but there was an erroneous display of them on the website, that nothing has actually been taken out, but rather things have actually been added.

https://community.logos.com/forums/p/93167/646672.aspx#646672

They are, however, honoring what people thought was supposed to be included in the package if they paid for it already under that impression and are now finding out they didn't get what they thought they'd get. I'm not sure (doubt) if that extends to people who haven't purchased it yet but were thinking of it, based on what used to be listed in the package.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/648763#Comment_648763

There's an important difference between information being displayed erroneously on the website (driven by "static" information at times) and the actual content of our base packages

We buyers don't give two hoots whether you've added or removed items from the master list that we've never seen. We don't care whether the master list is "right", or "wrong". We only care that we just spent $5,000 thinking $50 of it was going towards Josephus. Now Josephus hasn't arrived, and is never going to arrive, and you've still got our $50. That ain't right.

(And, can I add, if you'd have allowed the beta testers to beta test these product pages for a few days, you wouldn't have had most of these problems. I personally reported at least six pricing errors in the first 24 hours I could get on the site.)

GaoLu

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/649130#Comment_649130

Logos is being amazingly gracious and charitable. Unfairly so I think, because Logos is so gracious that they may be enabling some customers to take unfair advantage of them. Perhaps a better term for Logos is "magnanimous." Maybe we users could be the same.

I can't imagine getting resources from Logos in this fashion and then using them with clear conscience.

I don't agree entirely with what I think I know about Logos business and profit philosophy, but that is their business. Our integrity is our business.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/649150#Comment_649150

There's an important difference between information being displayed erroneously on the website (driven by "static" information at times) and the actual content of our base packages

We buyers don't give two hoots whether you've added or removed items from the master list that we've never seen. We don't care whether the master list is "right", or "wrong". We only care that we just spent $5,000 thinking $50 of it was going towards Josephus. Now Josephus hasn't arrived, and is never going to arrive, and you've still got our $50. That ain't right.

(And, can I add, if you'd have allowed the beta testers to beta test these product pages for a few days, you wouldn't have had most of these problems. I personally reported at least six pricing errors in the first 24 hours I could get on the site.)

I have found about the same number, though I didn't spend near as much as you.

Most of the ones I found were discrepancies with with how many volumes dynamic pricing thought there were, vs how many were advertised as existing.

Was this the Josephus title included in Portfolio as well?

Just discovered I didn't get a journal that should have been included in portfolio (well, one of the two volumes). Off to make a new thread.

mike

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/649152#Comment_649152

Logos is known notoriously in doing this (putting and removing resources after sale).

I just joined Logos 1.5 years, I can remember Logos do this few times.

Logos needs to man up, and honor those resources they've removed from the original package.

I myself bought the Collector at the first hour & still having regrets why Logos still do this..

Gabe Martini (Faithlife)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/649164#Comment_649164

Logos is known notoriously in doing this (putting and removing resources after sale).

I just joined Logos 1.5 years, I can remember Logos do this few times.

Logos needs to man up, and honor those resources they've removed from the original package.

I myself bought the Collector at the first hour & still having regrets why Logos still do this..

Have you reached out to Phil or Ray yet? I know both offered to help you get any potential discrepancies sorted out. We're here to help if you have an issue.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/649164#Comment_649164

Logos is known notoriously in doing this (putting and removing resources after sale).

I just joined Logos 1.5 years, I can remember Logos do this few times.

Logos needs to man up, and honor those resources they've removed from the original package.

I myself bought the Collector at the first hour & still having regrets why Logos still do this..

The two big issues I had/found were both made right.

One resulted in 50$ in credit, the other in a 200$ book being added to my account. I really can't complain that they need to man up because they will and do.

Allowing some users to double check the product pages before launch however may well be something for Faithlife to take to heart.

OR else hire someone to specifically drudge through and data check. Someone who didn't generate the content.

Paul Strickert

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/649171#Comment_649171

Logos has always bent over backwards to make things right with their customers. Yet, I still see grown adults throwing hissy fits like three-year-olds. Brothers, this isn't a matter of life and death! [:)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/649183#Comment_649183

Just to make things perfectly clear: A hissy fit is not thrown....it is pitched. It's important to use the correct terminology. [:P] One more thing. Some VIPs around here are AINOs ..... Adults In Name Only.[:O]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/649197#Comment_649197

Just to make things perfectly clear: A hissy fit is not thrown....it is pitched.

The rest of that was a little harsh friend. Everyone is allowed bad days, and space to vent.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/649202#Comment_649202

The rest of that was a little harsh friend. Everyone is allowed bad days, and space to vent.

Well fabulous. Then you should be able to overlook my harsh venting on one of my bad days.[:D] God Bless.

Alan Charles Gielczyk

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/649206#Comment_649206

Am I understanding this right? The people who bought CE on Monday and thought they were getting Princeton ARE actually getting it but I, who bought it Tuesday, am not?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/649220#Comment_649220

It may depend on how big of a hissy fit you pitch.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/649220#Comment_649220

Am I understanding this right? The people who bought CE on Monday and thought they were getting Princeton ARE actually getting it but I, who bought it Tuesday, am not?

Nope. We won't actually be getting the resource. Contact customer service, and they will make it right for you as well.

Alex Scott

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/649202#Comment_649202

The rest of that was a little harsh friend. Everyone is allowed bad days, and space to vent.

Kind of like your response to MAB in General eh? I bit my tongue on that one but if you're going to play the hypocrite you need to be called on it.

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/649483#Comment_649483

Friends, please!

I know I don't have the words and the "all of it" of Milford, but please try to keep peace here on the forums.

The thing that gave rise to this thread was mostly a technical error, which some interpreted in an unfortunate manner but which I think has been mostly fixed by now. Everybody should consider their own words and maybe give a helpful hint to others (private Faithlife Messages are probably often better than open formum posts for that), but there's no need to track transgressions of others. And - since Milford is no longer here, who might have been the exception to the rule - I think we all have been in situations where we wished a more peaceful tone from others, but couldn't live up to our wishes on that same day.

Did you see that glorious sunrise over Bellingham in the Launch Day post? Awesome, really awesome. We have a glorious father, giving us so much.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/649494#Comment_649494

I think the cowboy needs to get a few pointers before getting a card on rodeo day.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/649513#Comment_649513

Granted. But I certainly hope he consults someone other than the rodeo clown. [:P]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/649541#Comment_649541

I've "reached out" several times about this issue. I don't think I am being unreasonable nor am I asking for free resources. It is the fact that I have been roundly ignored that I am frustrated with. I would much prefer direct contact from someone that said we're sorry and we're not going to give you any of these resources than being completely stonewalled.

I will be happily e-mailing with an employee one minute and when I ask for an update on this issue, they disappear. I gave up today and bought Josephus.

I am just surprised at how I have been treated given the over the top fabulous customer service that I have received every other time I have interacted with Logos employees.

Adam Borries (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/649556#Comment_649556

I'm sorry we haven't gotten back to you, Tanner. We didn't forget about you, but as you can imagine, Customer Service is a bit overwelmed this week. [:)]

I'm going to call you directly within the hour.

Keith Larson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/649167#Comment_649167

Logos is known notoriously in doing this (putting and removing resources after sale).

I just joined Logos 1.5 years, I can remember Logos do this few times.

Logos needs to man up, and honor those resources they've removed from the original package.

I myself bought the Collector at the first hour & still having regrets why Logos still do this..

Have you reached out to Phil or Ray yet? I know both offered to help you get any potential discrepancies sorted out. We're here to help if you have an issue.

Gabe,

Gabe are you suggesting that we have to "reach out" for Logos to make this right? The Collectors Edition was a huge upgrade. My bad of not making a screen shot of "What's New to You" at the time of my order. Moreover, am I required to call up and convince someone that my purchase of the Collectors Edition depended on this or that resource? To be honest, because the Collectors Edition was such a great deal it feels a little disingenuous of me to call and belly ache, on the other hand, it doesn't feel right I did not receive the content that was advertised at the time of my order Monday. If some people get the "removed resources" for calling or emailing, am I a good steward for not making any effort to set things straight? In other words, I have to chose being a greedy money grabber on one hand or a lazy bad steward on the other. Please just look up the time of order and come up with a solution that is the same for everyone, whether we "reach out" or not.