Disappointed with my L6 experience

If you're in Kenya, you can expect significant delays from downloading. There will be a bottleneck in the trans-continental backbone. You may get better results during off-peak hours?

[In case you didn't know, the speedtest results tend to be very high because a server nearby is used for tests.]

no-one seems to be responding any more

No-one seems to be responding because the general consensus is that it's a Yosemite bug rather than a Logos bug. Various posts have been made with suggestions as to what might help, and several people have reported some success with those suggestions (wired connection, deleting plist files, etc.).

I feel your pain, but I'm not sure how we can help (though if your desperate you could install Logos for Windows, download everything there, then scan it in to your Mac.)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653031#Comment_653031

no-one seems to be responding any more

No-one seems to be responding because the general consensus is that it's a Yosemite bug rather than a Logos bug. Various posts have been made with suggestions as to what might help, and several people have reported some success with those suggestions (wired connection, deleting plist files, etc.).

I feel your pain, but I'm not sure how we can help (though if your desperate you could install Logos for Windows, download everything there, then scan it in to your Mac.)

If it is a Yosemite why does it affect only Logos?

I have followed (as far as I am aware) every suggestion that has been made and I am not using wifi.

Yes, I could go out and buy a windows machine, followed by a massive download for the new installation but I chose to purchase a Mac and my missionary budget does not stretch that far.

If I go to the purchase page for a new L6 installation, is there a warning that installing this software on Yosemite may meet with some issues? I think that is the least that should be done here. Whether or not the issue originates with Apple, that is the experience that new users will have and they should be informed.

I want to be as gracious as possible but I am really quite upset.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653028#Comment_653028

If you're in Kenya, you can expect significant delays from downloading. There will be a bottleneck in the trans-continental backbone. You may get better results during off-peak hours?

[In case you didn't know, the speedtest results tend to be very high because a server nearby is used for tests.]

3.5mb/700bps - that's a bit more than a bottleneck. I can easily download from the Logos web site and I have other services that are subject to the same bottleneck. I actually ran a speed test through a VPN two days ago and got very reasonable results of around 2mbps

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653033#Comment_653033

Yes, I could go out and buy a windows machine

I wasn't suggesting that. I was suggesting a Windows virtual machine on your mac (if you were desperate).

As you mentioned a VPN in your last post, does trying to update via a VPN work?

If I go to the purchase page for a new L6 installation, is there a warning that installing this software on Yosemite may meet with some issues?

I think the fact that there are only a tiny number of people on the forums (10 or 12?) with problems suggests it's a bug that is affecting only a tiny percentage of users. There are lots of Yosemite users who have said everything's fine for them. A warning might cause people to be unnecessarily alarmed.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653035#Comment_653035

Yes, I could go out and buy a windows machine

I wasn't suggesting that. I was suggesting a Windows virtual machine on your mac (if you were desperate).

As you mentioned a VPN in your last post, does trying to update via a VPN work?

I appreciate your suggestion but where would I get a free copy of windows? I think it's around $200 here. Also the download would be quite a few GB as it would be fresh installation.

I also don't understand why my download percentage rises when I am working offline and the router is unplugged from the mains. Earlier, after indexing, the download went all the way to one hundred percent without even being logged or a working internet connection. As soon as I re-connected to the internet it went back to 3GB. Whenever I manage to knock around 7% off it freezes and then goes back to 3GB. What does this have to do with Yosemite wifi connection issues?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653039#Comment_653039

I appreciate your suggestion but where would I get a free copy of windows?

That I don't know. In my experience many people have old copies lying around, (or old laptops you could borrow for a day or two) but that may not be the case where you are.

If we're going to try and help, could you please check the suggested page (http://osxdaily.com/2014/10/25/fix-wi-fi-problems-os-x-yosemite/), and let us know exactly what steps you've already taken from that page. Also, you haven't said whether you've tried updating via a VPN?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653044#Comment_653044

I appreciate your suggestion but where would I get a free copy of windows?

That I don't know. In my experience many people have old copies lying around, (or old laptops you could borrow for a day or two) but that may not be the case where you are.

If we're going to try and help, could you please check the suggested page (http://osxdaily.com/2014/10/25/fix-wi-fi-problems-os-x-yosemite/), and let us know exactly what steps you've already taken from that page. Also, you haven't said whether you've tried updating via a VPN?

Thanks Mark, I actually found that page before it was posted here. In fact I did have some issues which cleared up after following that advice. I also repaired permissions and the disk.

I tried over VPN but it was much the same and there was a slight drop in the tested speed to around 1.5/2mbps. Logos remained at a steady 700bytes - 10kbps :-)

However, purely out of desperation and in the absence of any other ideas, I will repeat the steps in the article and see whether they make a difference.

Juts doing my accounts (slightly more depressing than Logos but not by much) and then I'll try again.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653049#Comment_653049

There is a way of downloading all your updates outside of the Logos Indexer application, which would be a bit of a pain to set up, but is possible. If you want to do that I can explain how to do it - it's a bit of a pain, but it will work (unless that gets afflicted by the same bug).

Levi Durfey

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653049#Comment_653049

Sean, is it possible for you to set up Mavericks on a separate partition on your drive? Then you could download Logos there and then scan [the Logos resource folder] from the Yosemite installation.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653053#Comment_653053

There is a way of downloading all your updates outside of the Logos Indexer application, which would be a bit of a pain to set up, but is possible. If you want to do that I can explain how to do it - it's a bit of a pain, but it will work (unless that gets afflicted by the same bug).

I would be very interested, thanks.
I did ask support if this was possible and they said no but if you have a way then I am certainly up for it.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653055#Comment_653055

Sean, is it possible for you to set up Mavericks on a separate partition on your drive? Then you could download Logos there and then scan it from the Yosemite installation.

Thanks. Not sure as I don't have a copy of Mavericks. I did think of rolling back but trying to safeguard all the files created since that time (also the possible conflicts with Google drive and dropbox) made it seem a bit extreme.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653056#Comment_653056

I would be very interested, thanks.

OK. I'll outline the method, and you can tell me whether you still want to go ahead, and which parts you need more help with. (I'm happy to explain everything, but I don't want to waste your time or mine explaining things you already know how to do.)

Install an app which lets you open SQLLite files.
Use it to open Logos queue of downloads, and export the URLs to a text file.
Install a download manager that will import a list of URLs (or a browser extension).
Download all the URLs into a folder.
Scan the folder with Logos.
After everything's working, delete the SQLLite file, so Logos doesn't keep trying to download the files you've just imported.

If necessary I could steps 1 and 2 for you if you emailed me the file.

Levi Durfey

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653057#Comment_653057

Right, which is why I suggested a temporary separate partition, if possible.

You should be able to download a copy of Mavericks from the Mac App Store (Purchases).

John Fidel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653057#Comment_653057

Sean,

I know this is frustrating for you as I was impacted by the issue. I know you have gone through and tried everything posted to date to fix the matter. For me it was resetting permissions, deleting plist files per the article and closing both bluetooth and handoff. I have installed on two MBPs successfully since. I pray you are able to find a solution to your issue.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653060#Comment_653060

I would be very interested, thanks.

OK. I'll outline the method, and you can tell me whether you still want to go ahead, and which parts you need more help with. (I'm happy to explain everything, but I don't want to waste your time or mine explaining things you already know how to do.)

Install an app which lets you open SQLLite files.

Use it to open Logos queue of downloads, and export the URLs to a text file.

Install a download manager that will import a list of URLs (or a browser extension).

Download all the URLs into a folder.

Scan the folder with Logos.

After everything's working, delete the SQLLite file, so Logos doesn't keep trying to download the files you've just imported.

If necessary I could steps 1 and 2 for you if you emailed me the file.

Sounds do-able.

I can google for an sql app but if you have any suggestions then do let me know. same with download managers.

Not sure where to find the download queue or how to make logos scan an external folder.

Think that's about it.

Thanks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653034#Comment_653034

3.5mb/700bps - that's a bit more than a bottleneck. I can easily download from the Logos web site and I have other services that are subject to the same bottleneck. I actually ran a speed test through a VPN two days ago and got very reasonable results of around 2mbps

You're right. It doesn't appear to be the usual bottleneck issue. FWIW, exactly four weeks ago I could not get sign-in on Logos for a few hours, while Logos was apparently working fine in other parts of the world. It could be one of those unexplainable internet "node“ issues. Also AFAIK Logos resources and updates are served up by leased third-party servers.

All the best in your trouble-shooting. If your VPN has no cap, you could try downloading through it.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653063#Comment_653063

Right, which is why I suggested a temporary separate partition, if possible.

You should be able to download a copy of Mavericks from the Mac App Store (Purchases).

Thanks. I will actually keep that as a possible option but it is a very large download (5gb) and so it will have to be a last resort.

I really appreciate your thoughts

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653077#Comment_653077

3.5mb/700bps - that's a bit more than a bottleneck. I can easily download from the Logos web site and I have other services that are subject to the same bottleneck. I actually ran a speed test through a VPN two days ago and got very reasonable results of around 2mbps

You're right. It doesn't appear to be the usual bottleneck issue. FWIW, exactly four weeks ago I could not get sign-in on Logos for a few hours, while Logos was apparently working fine in other parts of the world. It could be one of those unexplainable internet "node“ issues. Also AFAIK Logos resources and updates are served up by leased third-party servers.

All the best in your trouble-shooting.

Thanks Lee

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653031#Comment_653031

No-one seems to be responding because the general consensus is that it's a Yosemite bug rather than a Logos bug.

I don't know if I agree that "it's apple's fault." There are a number of threads about users having issues on Yosemite... I am not having any of those problems. This is a LOGOS on YOSEMITE issue.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653087#Comment_653087

No-one seems to be responding because the general consensus is that it's a Yosemite bug rather than a Logos bug.

I don't know if I agree that "it's apple's fault." There are a number of threads about users having issues on Yosemite... I am not having any of those problems. This is a LOGOS on YOSEMITE issue.

That's also my impression but I can't get anyone to own that. I understand that the yosemite issue is a wifi issue, which thi clearly is not

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653076#Comment_653076

I'm a Windows person, not a Mac person, so I don't have suggestions, sorry. I did do a quick google search before I posted, and it looked like there were a few options that would work. Others might chip in if they have specific recommendations.

As for the SQLite file, open your Logos 6 folder, and find in Data\{random}\UpdateManager\UpdateManager.db

The SQL query you need to run is:
SELECT Urls FROM Resources WHERE Status=3

As I said, I can help with that bit if you emailed me the file. If you want to do so, contact me via www.markbarnes.net

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653090#Comment_653090

I understand that the yosemite issue is a wifi issue, which thi clearly is not

If it were just a wifi issue, then hooking up to ethernet should ALWAYS work, right? [;)]

I don't blame Logos for this problem... There were some indicators about this issue (I first reported it in early October), but it wasn't until users running Yosemite needed to download large amounts that the issue really went "boom."

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653087#Comment_653087

This is a LOGOS on YOSEMITE issue.

That's true. However, given that there are reports of non-Logos Yosemite download problems, and no reports of non-Yosemite Logos download problems, the balance of probabilities puts the blame at Apple's door IMO.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653092#Comment_653092

I'm a Windows person, not a Mac person, so I don't have suggestions, sorry. I did do a quick google search before I posted, and it looked like there were a few options that would work. Others might chip in if they have specific recommendations.

As for the SQLite file, open your Logos 6 folder, and find in Data\{random}\UpdateManager\UpdateManager.db

The SQL query you need to run is:
SELECT Urls FROM Resources WHERE Status=3

As I said, I can help with that bit if you emailed me the file. If you want to do so, contact me via www.markbarnes.net

Thanks Mark, I will tackle this a little bit later and updat you.

Really appreciate your help.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653094#Comment_653094

the balance of probabilities puts the blame at Apple's door IMO.

The usual mantra: correlation is not causation, much less fault! [:)]

@Sean:

If your VPN has no cap on volume, try downloading through your VPN.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653094#Comment_653094

That's true. However, given that there are reports of non-Logos Yosemite download problems, and no reports of non-Yosemite Logos download problems, the balance of probabilities puts the blame at Apple's door IMO.

I'm not trying to "blame" Logos... but it is an issue that they need to work out.

New operating systems mean "new ways of doing things." It means "code needs to change" or be "updated." That ball is in LOGOS court. Like I have said repeatedly... Logos was hit with this issue rather unexpectedly. As far as I know, I was the only one in the L6 beta to experience this issue... and it was not known at the time that it was a "yosemite" issue. I created the "metathread" to help discover that, by the way. [;)] I don't expect a fix overnight. I do, however, expect Logos to own up to their part in it.

Russ White

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653079#Comment_653079

From what it sounds like -- it's possible that either Logos is using a lot of TCP flows (one per resource, or more) and there's a problem with the TCP sessions synchronizing (normally solved through WRED), or the Logos isn't handling the TCP windows correctly. While the IP stack on the local machine normally sets the TCP window, it's possible that Logos is doing something that pushes the window size down in some way -- such as pushing segments without letting them get full, or some such. I've seen similar problems in BGP in the past, resolved by really thinking about when a segment should be pushed, etc.

The problem is there's no way to know if this on the server or the client side. What it really take to figure out is wireshark, a very large packet capture, and someone with a little more experience than I have to look through the captures to see what's going on.

Do you have any friends at your local ISP? If not, the best option is going to be go outside Logos to download the files (as suggested above), unless you really want to dive into the network side of the world.

Russ

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653095#Comment_653095

Really appreciate your help.

Mark IS very helpful, even to us lowly Mac users. [:)]

In all seriousness... I have no idea how Mark gets so much done.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653102#Comment_653102

Still doing the ministry accounts and it's official, Logos is less frustrating.

LimJK

Is there any chance that this will have any kind of resolution. I have added a post to the metathread for this issue but no-one seems to be responding any more.

Sean,

I can understand your frustration, not sure if what I have done as a work around in my situation is relevant to the issue you faced.

I observed that I have some issues in downloading in Logos 5 massive resources update (and Logos 6 Base Package Update too, based on my fading memory) on OS 10.10. I am sorry I did not have any logs, I just wanted to get installation done the first day when Logos server was overwhelmed.

The following is what happened to my case and what I did to complete the downloading and indexing

I disabled auto-download by default ... so was prompted to downloaded 2.78GB which involved 3798 Resources
I started downloading, I noticed it was stuck at 1% for over 1.5 hours, from my LittleSnitch Utility, I noticed that LogosIndexer is not doing any downloading for 1.5 hours. So I cancelled the downloading process in Logos UI (the orange one line status bar at the top), restart, noted that 42 resources was downloaded
After restarting, I was Prompted to download (the rest) this time, download progress to 5% (265 Resources) and get stuck again.
Repeat the above, download progress to 30% (979 Resources), Stuck again
Repeat the above, download progress to 65% (2132 Resources), Stuck again
Finally, progress to 100% (380 Resources)
Indexing all the above, I am happy :-)

My basis of how I judged that downloading is stuck, is to observe that there is lack of activities by LogosIndexer on both Network (LittleSnitch) and Disk (iStat Menu). Cancel Logos Download, Restart Logos.

The above problem does not happen to my Logos 6 on Windows 8.1 VM on the same machine

Hope this help you get Logos installed.

PS: I did not report this earlier, as I thought it was simply Logos / Amazon / whatever Servers were overwhelmed.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653092#Comment_653092

I'm a Windows person, not a Mac person, so I don't have suggestions, sorry. I did do a quick google search before I posted, and it looked like there were a few options that would work. Others might chip in if they have specific recommendations.

As for the SQLite file, open your Logos 6 folder, and find in Data\{random}\UpdateManager\UpdateManager.db

The SQL query you need to run is:
SELECT Urls FROM Resources WHERE Status=3

As I said, I can help with that bit if you emailed me the file. If you want to do so, contact me via www.markbarnes.net

Hi Mark, thanks for all your help. The files are now downloading outside of Logos and it will still take a couple of hours but the speed difference is huge :-)

I will update in the morning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653146#Comment_653146

You mean, you're downloading through your VPN? So it was a "node" thing after all?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653149#Comment_653149

You mean, you're downloading through your VPN? So it was a "node" thing after all?

No, I'm following Mark's advice and downloading the files externally using a download manager and the URL's that I ripped from the Logos database

Download is maybe 100 times faster. I've downloaded around 600mb where it was taking 2 several hours to download around 30mb.

Russ White

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653151#Comment_653151

If this works -- then the problem is clearly in the way the Logos application is interacting with the IP stack on the O/S, rather than a problem with the server, or anything in the intermediate network. Time for a wireshark session with Logos on the latest version of MAC O/S, and some serious looks at how it's dealing with TCP.

Russ

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653151#Comment_653151

That would be suggestive that the fault lies somewhere in the Logos code for pulling downloads.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653158#Comment_653158

That would be suggestive that the fault lies somewhere in the Logos code for pulling downloads.

Except that Bradley has said they're using standard Apple API calls, and the API is returning the timeout error. But it's certainly interesting that the download manager is working well.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653157#Comment_653157

One tiny caveat.

The URLs Sean is downloaded are not all the same as the ones the indexer would download. That's because updates to existing resources are delta updates (i.e. just the changed part of the file is sent). The method I suggested can't support delta updates, so I therefore had Sean download the full files.

It remains theoretically possible (although I doubt it) that delta updates cause the problem.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653170#Comment_653170

One tiny caveat.

The URLs Sean is downloaded are not all the same as the ones the indexer would download. That's because updates to existing resources are delta updates (i.e. just the changed part of the file is sent). The method I suggested can't support delta updates, so I therefore had Sean download the full files.

It remains theoretically possible (although I doubt it) that delta updates cause the problem.

That raises a question for me. If I am simply downloading the full version of resources that I already have, will Logos recognise them as updated versions or bypass because they already exists?

Spence McConnell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653070#Comment_653070

I have been reading through this post with interest because I am experiencing many of the same problems that are being discussed here. Would you please post how you reset your permissions and deleted your plist files? Or if you would post a link to an existing page that gives me that information, I would be very grateful. I have addressed the handoff and bluetooth settings, but am not sure how to do the others and I am willing to try anything at this point.

Thanks!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653178#Comment_653178

If I am simply downloading the full version of resources that I already have, will Logos recognise them as updated versions or bypass because they already exists?

Each file has a signature which includes a timestamp of when it was built. The scan will recognise the timestamp and act accordingly.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653196#Comment_653196

Would you please post how you reset your permissions and deleted your plist files? Or if you would post a link to an existing page that gives me that information, I would be very grateful.

This is the page that has helped most people (but not everyone): http://osxdaily.com/2014/10/25/fix-wi-fi-problems-os-x-yosemite/

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653157#Comment_653157

then the problem is clearly in the way the Logos application is interacting with the IP stack on the O/S

We're not doing anything so low-level. Here's our download code:

	m_download = [[NSURLDownload alloc] initWithRequest:urlRequest delegate:self];
	[urlRequest release];
	urlRequest = nil;
	[m_download setDestination:[m_currentFile destination] allowOverwrite:YES];

(Cf. https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/URLLoadingSystem/Tasks/UsingNSURLDownload.html)

It's hard to argue that "the problem is clearly here" (unless you're saying that it's clearly a bug in Yosemite... ).

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653353#Comment_653353

then the problem is clearly in the way the Logos application is interacting with the IP stack on the O/S

We're not doing anything so low-level. Here's our download code:
	m_download = [[NSURLDownload alloc] initWithRequest:urlRequest delegate:self];
	[urlRequest release];
	urlRequest = nil;
	[m_download setDestination:[m_currentFile destination] allowOverwrite:YES];
(Cf. https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/URLLoadingSystem/Tasks/UsingNSURLDownload.html)

It's hard to argue that "the problem is clearly here" (unless you're saying that it's clearly a bug in Yosemite... ).

Just want to study my Bible

Adam Borries (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653380#Comment_653380

Hi, Sean,

I'm sorry this is still an issue for you. We've updated/improved the OSDaily instructions, and posted them here: https://www.logos.com/support/logos6/mac/error-yosemite
Please try that solution one more time.

There is is also a rumor that Apple will be addressing this bug in the next update to Yosemite.

I hope that helps.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653394#Comment_653394

Bradley and Adam -

You keep pointing to the issue in Yosemite (and it clearly IS an issue with Yosemite and Logos), but the "known issue" in Yosemite is with WIFI. Since many of us have attempted a wired connection with mixed results at best, doesn't that undercut your position?

Russ White

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653353#Comment_653353

How many of these do you open at once? If you're opening several downloads in parallel of very large files, you might be hitting a bug in the way the IP stack works on the local box that other folks aren't hitting, particularly across a link with low bandwidth and high delay. The clue is the ability to download these same files through a web browser in much shorter time -- there's some way the web browser is downloading files that Logos isn't.

It might be useful to put in a setting to limit the number of files being downloaded at once if you're opening multiples in parallel (like most browsers have the option to control the number of TCP sessions opened at once, for the same reason -- but most browsers also interact with the TCP stack on a deeper level than this, too, by pushing data at the end of segments and the like.

Russ

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653478#Comment_653478

How many of these do you open at once?

At most 4.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/653151#Comment_653151

Sean,

How are you getting on?

Mark