Request for Video's

I feel really dumb for asking this...

I have watched a lot of videos from Mark Barnes and other trained pastor's. I have found them facinating but also feel like they are way over my head talking about opening all the original language stuff. Are there any video's made that open everything but the languages and really get into some nice studies. I feel like I have purchased an L4 program that is way over my head and am just lost in really how to get going.

I am a long time logos buyer but have never really started using it like I oringinally planned. I desire now to really use it. As stated above getting going is a real struggle for me. Maybe email chat would help. What would be ideal would be someone in Tucson Arizona area that I might travel to for help.

I know I could use a Camp logos but I have been trying to change career for 2 years now and am just living week to week. This economy is not helping things.

I am getting really frustrated with myself. I have a BS in Math and Lots of Chemistry hours. (I have a brain that is functioning-I feel) but this stuff is just not working.

I guess what I really want is someone to chat with about this stuff and some prayer to be able to get functional and on track with this software. My email is luvmath03 AT yhoo DOT com(pany).

PS....I am way to much of a perfectionist...I want to do a really good job first thing and I just can't. I also suffer from Major Depression...(Everything is Ok for now Smile Confused

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Bob Diebel

No need to fell dumb for being at the start of the road on this journey of learning rather that the end. Do not all start with the need for some serious work, and consistent effort? Some of these posts blow me away too, but from my company's motto "crawl, walk, run". OR from Scripture:

Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Some working with other software, and having computer & Tech. history have a head start. It may seem overwhelming, but keep trying, and keep the specific questions coming. These posts get answers!

Mark Barnes

William,

I think there are really two questions here:

How best can I study the Bible?
How best can I use Logos?

Obviously, in many ways the first question is the most important. To help answer it, it's perhaps best to know why you want to study the Bible? Specific questions you need to answer for yourself? Daily devotional? To teach yourself? To teach others? In general terms, both Dig Deeper and Grasping God's Word are excellent books that seek to equip you in study. Other books may be more suitable for you though. If you could give some indication of the answer to this question, I (or others) can suggest some books which might help you. Once you have those skills, I think you'll find it relatively easy to use Logos 4 to answer the questions that the books pose, and to use the tools they teach.

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/64594#Comment_64594

William,

I emailed you at the address you provided...I'm more than happy to correspond with you...even using "remote software" so you can see my desktop while we talk, if necessary... [:D]

Kevin Becker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/64594#Comment_64594

Mark offers some excellent guidance on the preliminary matters before you study. Let me add to his helpful comments about different types of Bible study that might help you express what you want to do.

You can ask

What does the passage mean? This can be called inductive study; it is the backbone of exegesis and the expository sermon. You pick a passage and mine it for all you know how, making observations, trying to understand what the author is communicating. (Mark's suggestion of Grasping God's Word is a good example of a guide to this type of study) You might start with the Passage guide to do this.

What does the Bible say about x? This can be called topical study; it is similar to topical preaching and systematic theology. It seeks to understand what the Bible says about a topic in its various contexts. You might start with a cross reference or a trusted systematic theology to help you start after you've identified a subject you want to study. One word of caution: It's easy to proof-text and make the Bible say things it does not intend, so topical study must be done with care.

Of course, there are no hard boundaries between different styles of study. many start off with a question and then, after identifying a passage that they believe is applicable to that question, move to a more inductive study to discover as much about that passage.

Finally, when you respond, you might want to let us know what resources/base package you own. It'll help those giving you the advice to know what kind of things you and Logos have available to use.

William

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/64594#Comment_64594

Hello all, I really appreciate the offers here. I am not feeling as lost at this moment as I feel supported through this software learning stage.

Mark, you ask and bring up some interesting thoughts for me. Let me just go a little more into what I am thinking about as I look at my sword.

First and foremost, I read the word because of Romans 1:16. An extremely close second is the ability to search scripture that will give me a whole bunch of verses that teach one thought to show others in conversation and email chatting. For example, God (in Jesus Christ) saves not man trying to fulfill the Law. Since I have purchased Logos, I have a few more things that might be added here about the verse searching. . What do the different translations say in this verse? What type of understanding can I have from reading the translations? I have also been thinking about Commentaries. I have a couple of commentaries since I purchased a scholars Edition back in the Late 90's. The next upgrade came and I did not have the money to upgrade to the next scholars so I went with original Languages and have been there ever since.

Anyway, the main commentaries that I have is of Lutheran persuasion. I was able to get a lot of the "Lutheran" stuff. Luther's Works, Complete Concordia Library, Wisconsin Lutheran quarterly journal from the seminary...A complete "peoples bible commentaries" from the Wisconsin Lutheran Pastors for the Layperson etc. I think there is still one or two commentaries open to me from the scholars days.

But to be truthful, this is where I would like the languages to come in. If I use the Lexicons, and language stuff with insights from my pastor....is what I am thinking about the verse really correct? Obviously not knowing the Greek and Hebrew languages would be a real detriment. I, however, feel with the OE package it would be possible.

As I was saying in the first posting. It comes down to the "English--Layperson" desktop then the layperson with a bit of greek desktop....Get what I am coming at? I think the main layout would be English bibles with markup toolbars open. I guess notes as well. I need to have the commentaries with the dogmatics books or luthers works possible. How other books might fit?? (This is where a lot of questions have arisen for me) Getting all this done! and saved to bring back readily. Then another layout for the next stage or phase or part of the study process. All involved here is the linking with the ABC's, building search collections, linking at verse to another references etc. I see all this expanding exponentially!!!

The big thing that I feel here is I don't see or understand the why do it. I want this because if I find I might need or want something else....I want to have a chance to do it myself compared to someone else. (But this is what the forums are for...!) ( I would still like to be self-sufficient in some ways).

I can also just imagine with all the linking/searching/references a person could really get a lot done in short order. I want to be able to do that and search for myself. Maybe in 6-12 months lead a bible study myself...with a bit of the languages for some meat....An example of this is to figure out why Christ uses agape 2 of three times with Peter. Peter uses philo all three. This is when Christ asks Peter 3 times one after another if he loved him or not

I am feeling overwhelmed at this moment. I am sure taking a step back and cooling down will help at this junction.

It seems to me at first glance that Dig Deeper book is a good book for me but I also think getting to know logos for what I want is up in the nose-bleed section as well. . .

William

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65021#Comment_65021

William,

I wouldn't worry about the original languages for the time being. Learning to study the Bible more thoroughly in English is an big, important step, and one that will definitely help if you want to learn elements of the languages later on. Plus, the reverse interlinears make it really, really easy to search for Greek/Hebrew words in the Bible and have the results returned in English.

The videos I created don't rely too heavily on original languages - I deliberately kept them out of the way. Probably what's most intimidating about them is that the squash eight hours work into 45 minutes of video. So things that took me ages to discover or work out are revealed in seconds. Bible study is hard work!

This is what my advice to you would be:

Buy a book that looks to give lay-people the tools to study the Bible.
Work through the exercises in that book, using Logos 4.
After a few chapters, work through one of your favourite Bible passages, using Logos 4 and the new tools you are learning.
Continue to read the book, doing the exercises, and testing your skills.

As you work through the exercises using Logos, I'm sure you'll naturally come up with layouts that are helpful to you. You might occasionally get stuck: the book suggests you do such-and-such, but you're not sure how Logos does that. At that point, you can come back to us and ask a specific question.

I'm sure that way, you'll build your skills gradually. That's how all of us learn, and frequent small steps will take you on a very long journey!

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65073#Comment_65073

William,

Might I also suggest something?

There is something you can do that gets overlooked frequently when there are tools as powerful as Logos involved. It's also simple and so it seems less important than other things.

Here it is:

Read the text. Read it over and over. Read it out loud.

Paraphrase it; say to yourself "In other words; Paul is saying...."

And highlight while you read to keep things clear in your mind. Highlighting the text as you read will also cause you to slow down and understand the author's point.

Here; I've color coded the text of Romans 7 because I was wondering about the relationship of sin, to the Christian.

I tried to color each word type or phrase in a similar color; for example; the conjunctions in brown...that's my current system.

This (along with reading it over and over) really helps a lot, to understand what the text is saying.

Once you've done that...questions will form in your mind about the text and that's where the fancy searches come in...

Pat Flanakin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65114#Comment_65114

William,

It is important for you to get under a pastor-teacher that DOES know the original languages and teaches via his study, exegesis and exposition out of the original texts. Until you either do this, or get original language training on your own for your personal study, you will be studying an English translation which was filtered via a consortium of people (women included) which came from all sorts of theological and even unbelieving backgrounds.

This is why Logos is very useful in providing interlinear versions of Bibles since most users of the software know this is where Bible study must be rooted.

When you are studying under a system deriving translation, interpretation and application from the original languages, you can see how Scripture results in providing you the ability to renew your mind, through God the Holy Spirit. Pastors only teaching from English translations and commentaries are, in my opinion, following the adage, "garbage in, garbage out." I personally know some pastors which teach this way and trivialize the original languages and I frankly am not inclined to ask them much about the Bible, but they know how to create a torrent of emotion in a congregation for sure.

I emailed you some information to get you going in this direction. All the pastors I mentioned in that email use Logos, although I do not know if they are on Logos 4 yet.

Let me know if you got the email.

Pat Flanakin

pflanakin@gmail.com

NetworkGeek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65073#Comment_65073

William,

I wouldn't worry about the original languages for the time being. Learning to study the Bible more thoroughly in English is an big, important step, and one that will definitely help if you want to learn elements of the languages later on. Plus, the reverse interlinears make it really, really easy to search for Greek/Hebrew words in the Bible and have the results returned in English.

The videos I created don't rely too heavily on original languages - I deliberately kept them out of the way. Probably what's most intimidating about them is that the squash eight hours work into 45 minutes of video. So things that took me ages to discover or work out are revealed in seconds. Bible study is hard work!

This is what my advice to you would be:

Buy a book that looks to give lay-people the tools to study the Bible.

Work through the exercises in that book, using Logos 4.

After a few chapters, work through one of your favourite Bible passages, using Logos 4 and the new tools you are learning.

Continue to read the book, doing the exercises, and testing your skills.

As you work through the exercises using Logos, I'm sure you'll naturally come up with layouts that are helpful to you. You might occasionally get stuck: the book suggests you do such-and-such, but you're not sure how Logos does that. At that point, you can come back to us and ask a specific question.

I'm sure that way, you'll build your skills gradually. That's how all of us learn, and frequent small steps will take you on a very long journey!

Great davice Mark, I have been looking for some book(s) to help in this area. Do you or anyone else have recommendaitons of ones that would be good to work through exercise-style?

Gary O'Neal

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65611#Comment_65611

Great davice Mark, I have been looking for some book(s) to help in this area. Do you or anyone else have recommendaitons of ones that would be good to work through exercise-style?

Hendricks Living by the Book, gives some good exercises for you to follow. Original languages are not required to use his book. The Navigators have published a number of good basic Bible study books that give examples/exercises to follow.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65611#Comment_65611

Great advice Mark, I have been looking for some book(s) to help in this area. Do you or anyone else have recommendaitons of ones that would be good to work through exercise-style?

I think the best is Grasping God's Word, for which you can also buy a workbook. (Those are Amazon links, so you can look inside to get a feel for the book. The look inside feature skips most of the interesting pages, but if you search for words, you can get access to other pages. Try searching for the names of common bible books, or words that will be used often, like 'bible' or 'interpret'. The look inside for the workbook wrongly shows the normal book. There's a sample of the workbook here.)

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65737#Comment_65737

I think the best is Grasping God's Word

That book is really good...worth every penny.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65737#Comment_65737

I think the best is Grasping God's Word, for which you can also buy a workbook. (Those are Amazon links, so you can look inside to get a feel for the book. The look inside feature skips most of the interesting pages, but if you search for words, you can get access to other pages. Try searching for the names of common bible books, or words that will be used often, like 'bible' or 'interpret'.

If you search for 'assignment' you can see pretty much all of the assignment pages, which are probably the most interesting of all.

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65757#Comment_65757

If you search for 'assignment' you can see pretty much all of the assignment pages, which are probably the most interesting of all.

Rosie,

Are you saying that even though the "preview" may only include a few pages....if you do a word search it will show all of the pages with that hits??

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65765#Comment_65765

Are you saying that even though the "preview" may only include a few pages....if you do a word search it will show all of the pages with that hits??

Yes, that's usually how it works with Amazon. It will, however limit the total number of pages you can view, but often won't limit which pages you can view with this method. In Google books you can even search for page numbers (though this doesn't work at Amazon.)

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65768#Comment_65768

Yes, that's usually how it works with Amazon. It will, however limit the total number of pages you can view, but often won't limit which pages you can view with this method. In Google books you can even search for page numbers (though this doesn't work at Amazon.)

In this case, the possible pages that can be previewed is limited. I tried searching for revelation, for example, and it wouldn't let me see the first page of the chapter on Revelation, even though I'd only just begun poking around at preview pages and had not gotten close to my quota.

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65771#Comment_65771

Wow, what a great tip...

And I noticed that it works for Google books too....

Larry Fisher

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65772#Comment_65772

Thanks everybody for all this great input and for the question.

NetworkGeek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65737#Comment_65737

Thank you so much Mark and Gary for the book recommendations! I am on it!!!!

NetworkGeek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65627#Comment_65627

Hendricks Living by the Book, gives some good exercises for you to follow. Original languages are not required to use his book. The Navigators have published a number of good basic Bible study books that give examples/exercises to follow.

Hi Gary,

Researching your recommendation I found there is both a book - http://www.amazon.com/Living-Book-Science-Reading-Bible/dp/0802408230/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1262207250&sr=1-1

and a workbook companion - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0802495389/ref=pd_luc_mri?_encoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance

for this book!

Steve Shelton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/66053#Comment_66053

"Living By The Book" by Howard G Hendricks & William D. Hendricks is a good book on how to study the Bible.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=9780802408235

I am currently using it in my Audlt Sunday School class.

Joyce Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65021#Comment_65021

William I am not that great with logos but I can share with you what i did. first I memorized 1st john 2:27 and I got a study of john 15, on abiding in Christ all that i used was a kjv and strongs concordance and my life was transformed. so i encourage you don't get caught up with all of the things that we have but just believe what the bible say we need no man to teach us but the anointing that we received will teach you of all things.here is the # 816-358-1515 if you are interested in this study.

Gary O'Neal

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/66065#Comment_66065

Hi Gary,

Researching your recommendation I found there is both a book - http://www.amazon.com/Living-Book-Science-Reading-Bible/dp/0802408230/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1262207250&sr=1-1

and a workbook companion - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0802495389/ref=pd_luc_mri?_encoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance

for this book!

Yes--they are both good. You can get by without the workbook, but it does make some of the exercises easier.

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65627#Comment_65627

Hendricks Book is great. Many years ago there was a LL2 package built around this book. Its a shame it's not still available. There were a few other packages like this one. Since it the full features of this package have not been ported to Logos 4, on of the reasons I have not even considered removing Libronix from my computer.

The book itself though is once again available as a part of the Moody Bible Study Collection

http://www.logos.com/products/details/4930 . But you don't get the Videos and Workbook that came with the old set.

William

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/161639#Comment_161639

Andrew,

I just wanted to say thank you so much for bringing this thread back up. I know I read and took notes down over the responses to my initial posts but I feel right this instant like I did not. I feel like I have just read them and have gotten "new" insights.

Again Andrew! THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!