Until we at least have a Beta of L4Mac, then we let them have a couple of developers back. All in favor?
just another reason of why NOT to have an apple product. [;)]
just another reason of why NOT to have an apple product.
I'm sorry, did you say something? I was busy using L4 on my iPhone and wasn't paying attention. [:P]
Terry,
There are two different teams of developers working on Windows and Mac products. Stopping Windows won't add any developers to the Mac team.
Spending more money on Logos resources might [;)]
Chris
I think I read somewhere that they recently moved a couple of developers who were proficient in both platforms from the Windows group to the Mac group.
From what I understand, the development of the two platforms are so closely integrated that suspending Windows development would slow down Mac development instead of speeding it up.
There are two different teams of developers working on Windows and Mac products. Stopping Windows won't add any developers to the Mac team. Spending more money on Logos resources might
Spending more money on Logos resources might
Chris I know and the chances of the people who normally work on Windows being good enough to program for the Mac is pretty slim, but at least they could run get the Mac guys Coffee and donuts. I am in a fairly whimsical mood today, and was just looking forward to the day when I can remove bootcamp from my machine.
It is hard to run for coffee when you are covered in bubble wrap. But with the long extension cord you could make it right there.
Until we at least have a Beta of L4Mac
It be more cost effective to buy the Mac guys real computers.
[:P][;)]
I'm pretty sure all the Mac guys are developing on Mac machines.
What would be interesting to know is how many of the Windows developers are also developing on Mac machines.
Any that can!!!
I'm wondering just how many more resources could have been completed, and how much farther along Logos 4 would be if they wouldn't have decided to develop for the Mac. Logos began as a windows application. Where is the thankfullness from the Mac camp? Are Mac users even Christian?
Hmmmm.... Let's see.... Let's ask Logos to stop development on the OS that 90% market [Windows] share for full steam development on the OS that has 5% market share [Mac].... Ummm yeah that's a great business plan and I'm sure all those Windows Logos users will be peachy about that deal. Especially because they outnumber Mac users 18 to 1 and they bought an OS that has had Logos running fine from the jump...
Ummm not so much... Might be more expedient to get a PC and install Logos 4 on it until the Mac version gets even close to speed. After all you get all versions of L4 when you purchase one. Hey you might even come to realize that there is a reason why Mac only has 5% market share.... Other than being pretty and over priced they just don't cut it....Just sayin'
Just in case it wasn't clear my vote was a no for this nervy proposol....
Given the topic, people are being really nice on this thread. I know it was all said in fun, but pitting pc's against apples like this can often erupt in flames. [li]
But just to vote, I mostly like my apples coated in apple dip (cream cheese and brown sugar), mmmmm. Unless we are taking a break for apples and apple dip, I vote for continued development of pc version.
Perhaps we should suggest that the number a developers should reflect the ratio of PC's to Mac's: 9 PC developers for every 1 Mac Developer. [:D]
Where is the thankfullness from the Mac camp? Are Mac users even Christian?
WoW Robert! .........Can we add a smiley face to that? It is almost scary benough to be taken literally....
[:)] [:O] [:P] [:|] [:D] [^o)] [*-)] [li] [:@] [6] .......................................[au] [H]
Perhaps we should suggest that the number a developers should reflect the ratio of PC's to Mac's: 9 PC developers for every 1 Mac Developer.
Now that's what I'm talking about... just sayin' .... [:D][;)]
All kidding aside, the tech pundits are wondering if 2010 is going to be the year of the mac...
I'm wondering just how many more resources could have been completed, and how much farther along Logos 4 would be if they wouldn't have decided to develop for the Mac.
Bob has answered before, "None." Two different teams.
Seems like a pretty harsh statement to make, since we aren't supposed to judge... what's going on in your life?
BillNeither a Mac nor a PC (tech agnostic, if you will)... just want the most affordable/best product I can get for the things I use computers for.
Tech pundits predicting Macs will morph into PCs?
Improvements made to the Mac so far include:
Dumped the Motorola CPU - it couldn't run Windows.Added color video - so you can see the 4 color Windows logoAdded SuperDisk drives capable of reading PC floppiesSeparated the monitor & computer - like a PCAdded USB, IDE, PCI - like PCs haveDumped the MacOS for an X-based operating systemBootCamp & Parallels so you can run Windows on it.Now running Intel based chips so you can boot Windows on it.Would it be easier just to buy a PC? WooHoo!
Sorry about the bold reply. The forum app. made me do it. I don't use smileys, I find them too cutsey. Read what you want to into my comments. I just wish that the Mac fans wouldn't be so insufferable. I guess they would like eveyone to be a miserable as they are.
I'm pretty sure all the Mac guys are developing on Mac machines.True, but they are forced to use Dell monitors
If they had a nice HP 2709 HD 27" monitor to develop on they would be a lot happier (I know I am [:P]).
And for the record you gain nothing by developing on a mac instead of a windows platform. If the target platform is indeed windows. Most developers run virtual machines anyway with the target environment loaded. So host platform affinity is a moot aurgument.
Where is the thankfullness from the Mac camp? Are Mac users even Christian? WoW Robert! .........Can we add a smiley face to that? It is almost scary benough to be taken literally.... .......................................
.......................................
LOL!
Where is the thankfullness from the Mac camp?
I'm in the use the right tool for the right job camp.
The research and writing tools available on the Mac are really incredible (Bookends, Scrivener, Devonthink, Mellel, etc.).
I was a hardcore Windows fan with a lot of wise cracks about Mac users until Vista and Tiger were both released.
An incredibly bad experience with Vista and a surprisingly good experience with Tiger was a turning point for me.
Of course, it is important to emphasize that I didn't make the switch before Intel processors allowed Bootcamp and virtualization software to run Windows.
My Logos investment was the only reason I kept a Windows installation for a couple of years.
I, for one, am incredibly grateful that Logos is developing a Mac product.
However, don't think they are just doing it for altruistic reasons.
They would not be developing it if there weren't real market potential for them to realize a significant profit from their endeavors.
The truth is that both products will mutually benefit from Logos's solid business decision to develop in both platforms.
Read what you want to into my comments. I just wish that the Mac fans wouldn't be so insufferable. I guess they would like eveyone to be a miserable as they are.
I guess I did read it correctly. :-)
When a bad driver passes me and throws rude gestures at me while laying on his horn, I get a certain amount of guilty pleasure when I see him on the side of the road with a flat tire a couple minutes later. If whining Mac users want to cry in public, I just smile a little and let them. It is my evil PC half.
Last count I had 32 computers in my house, 8 of them Macs. I'm like Bill & Russ. I don't have an allegiance to any of them. Just give me a setup that gets it done.
Anthony,
You are correct about the negligible benefits of developing for Windows in Mac OS X.
What I really had in mind was the number of developers who run Windows natively on Mac hardware.
There are some Windows developers who develop using Mac hardware because it is competitive in its performance when running Windows but also provides the benefits that come from having the OS X toolset available when needed desired (edited so as not to offend anyone by implying that they might need a tool provided by either platform).
Last count I had 32 computers in my house, 8 of them Macs.
Wow.
Have you ever figured out how much money you would have had if you had invested the money you spent purchasing all of those computers in their respective stocks?
If you haven't, don't. There is really no need to end 2009 and begin 2010 in a bad mood. [:S]
And for the record you gain nothing by developing on a mac instead of a windows platform. If the target platform is indeed windows. Most developers run virtual machines anyway with the target environment loaded. So host platform affinity is a moot aurgument. Anthony, You are correct about the negligible benefits of developing for Windows in Mac OS X. What I really had in mind was the number of developers who run Windows natively on Mac hardware. There are some Windows developers who develop using Mac hardware because it is competitive in its performance when running Windows but also provides the benefits that come from having the OS X toolset available when needed desired (edited so as not to offend anyone by implying that they might need a tool provided by either platform).
Russ, you are right they do and it is a good thing IMO; my rub with Apple (Steve Jobs) is I want to be able to run the OSX os on my Intel based PC whether physical hardware or virtual machine. Currently I can't do it legally or without some unecessary manipulation. I think we have finally gotten to the place technically (with Apple's move to the intel platform) to choose what OS we want to run at any particular time. I can buy a Mac and install windows natively, but I can't by a PC and install OSX and run it natively (technically I can, but not legally).
If Apple wasn't so with the elitist attitude and would allow me to purchse the OSX operating system and install it on my non-mac intel platform; they could reap even more potential profits. I know the reasons why they won't, they only have to worry about supporting 6 or so apple skews with their OS as opposed to the over 1 million possible hardware combinations that Microsoft has to deal with.
Sorry guys I somehow[:|] found myself on my comparing apples to oranges soap box again. I thought I had overcome this temptation to debate[H]
I know the reasons why they won't, they only have to worry about supporting 6 or so apple skews with their OS as opposed to the over 1 million possible hardware combinations that Microsoft has to deal with. Sorry guys I somehow found myself on my comparing apples to oranges soap box again. I thought I had overcome this temptation to debate
The open architecture of the PC is why its is 90% of the market. Protectionism never works for the long run. But if you ask the guy who invented the molex connector how he feels about not getting a dime when every pwer supply on the world uses his invention he might opt for a little more protectionism. [:'(]
Seriously though I am with you on the "right tool for the right job mentality" IN my early 90's, my Engineering department had both a Mac Lab and a PC Lab. We had both, because both served different needs. People should just use what tool offers the best results for their major use.
Godspeed to all PC and Mac users in 2010--especially all of us Logos users on BOTH platforms.
While I would totally disagree since Logos is a company that wants to make money and there is a lot more money in developing for Windows, I agree that I think they are spreading themselves thin. The quality of the iphone app and the Windows app at release time show that maybe they are biting off more than they can chew.
My word, would you guys please chill out??? It was a JOKE! Man, here I thought the humorless church was a stereotype the world was trying to push on to us, now I am not so sure.
For the record, the OS I use on a daily basis
Windows 7
Windows XP
Windows 2003
Windows 2008
Linux (about 5 different flavors)
AIX
Solarius 10
and lest we forget, Snow Leopard 10.6
For all of you that took my post as the fun it was, thank you. For all of you who had got in a tizzy over it, Christ loves you any how, because he does so do I. (Now what where was the verse about loving God and loving your neighbor?).
While I would totally disagree since Logos is a company that wants to make money and there is a lot more money in developing for Windows,
Kevin,
I think one relevant factor needs to be mentioned concerning Logos's potential for profitability in developing a Mac product.
While Windows might dominate 95% of the market share for all installed computers, Apple is the one growing its market share even if it is presently only a little over 5%.
A more relevant issue for Logos, though, might be the number of its potential new users that come from students. In that market, Apple is much more competitive than in the business sector.
I recently left the campus of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, KY, one of the most conservative Baptist seminaries by any account.It was remarkable to me how fast the market share was changing to favor Mac users in the span of my four years there.
I would not be surprised if Mac's market share is even stronger in undergraduate institutions.
Of course, all that is anecdotal. We would have to hear an official word from someone at Logos for their numbers that justify their decision to develop for Mac.
One thing I am sure of, though . . . they ran numbers that led them to believe that Mac development would be profitable.
I would not be surprised if Mac's market share is even stronger in undergraduate institutions. Of course, all that is anecdotal. We would have to hear an official word from someone at Logos for their numbers that justify their decision to develop for Mac. One thing I am sure of, though . . . they ran numbers that led them to believe that Mac development would be profitable.
Logos won't show the numbers because just maybe the "other guys" will learn something and try to compete in the Windows based market. Notice how every time Walmart builds a new store Lowe's tries to build across the street capitalizing on Walmart's market research? Macs are nice. Macs are different. Logos is trying to serve as many buyers as reasonably profitable. One thing history tells us is the Mac user is willing to part with more money to have it.
Go ahead, tell yourself all day long that Logos chose to develop for the Mac AFTER vthey released for Windows because Mac is so dominant... I don't mind what you believe about Mac superiority as long as I get mine first!
I don't believe in Mac superiority. I thought Tiger and Leopard were better than Vista but the new round between Windows 7 and Snow Leopard has yet to be fully fought. I also think the iPhone OS is better than Windows Mobile but that is beside the point. I tend to evaluate individual tools. Since I have a Mac, I am able to use the best tools for both. I am would embrace any Windows only tool that helped me research or communicate the Bible better.
I'm also not arguing that Mac is dominant. It only makes up a little more than 5% of the existing computer market. I am merely offering reasons why Logos might have seen profitability in developing for it. Those reasons are: 1) the Mac market share is growing fairly rapidly; and 2) it is growing even more rapidly in the education sector where there is a lot of potential for new Logos customers.
The reason that the Windows version was developed first has nothing to do with the superiority of either OS. It really only makes sense that Logos as a historically Windows based company would develop its Windows product first. If had done it the other way around, I would have lost a lot of confidence in their business savvy. The core code base for both products is being developed with Microsoft technology.
I'm sure the "other guys" look at the same numbers that Logos does when they formulate their business plans. These stats aren't trade secrets.
I'm also not arguing that Mac is dominant.
I don't believe in Mac superiority
I'm sorry my quips didn't come across as light-hearted as I meant them to. I'm not anti-any platform.
I was in the Apple Developer Connection from MacOs 7 through 2003, Microsoft Developer Network from 1996 until.net, & IBM's The Developer Connection for OS/2 the whole duration of it's existence. I still hate Windows NT, prefer Linux and think MicroChannel architecture is the best invention since sliced bread.
You are right about every point in your post. I was teasing my Mac friends. SOMEBODY had to be first to get Logos. I am just glad it was the Windows users.
The mac version would be farther along than it is but the mac development department got a cold and he had to go home sick today..... [+o(]
The mac version would be farther along than it is but the mac development department got a cold and he had to go home sick today.....
U R so bad! (And someone has to say it... You know if it was only one developer doing the work of 10 PC programmers it was she who had to go home...)
