What happened to VoiceOver Support? PLEASE fix this!!
While I am appreciative that the Logos team is adding a new feature of the scrolling view, I am very very very very disappointed that in implementing this feature, they have completely broken VoiceOver support.
I use VoiceOver in Logos every single day, it's perhaps the most used feature for me, and I can say the same for a whole community of students here at the same Seminary I attend. I have spread the word to them NOT to update the app until this is fixed. There is a whole community of us who use this feature so much that it's not worth updating to any future apps until this is fixed.
Now, I know that I've read before on the forums that "Logos doesn't officially support VoiceOver," but I find that answer so frustrating (just being honest) because VoiceOver can SO EASILY be officially supported so there is really no reason why Logos should not support this feature. This is the quickest, easiest way to allow people to have instant text-to-speech features!
In my humble opinion, Logos really needs to take some clues from Kindle and how well they have supported VoiceOver. It seems to me that Logos used to support VoiceOver in Containers but not Lines (I'm referring to the VoiceOver Rotors). I would love to see Logos support not only Containers again but even Lines so that you can tap anywhere on the page and it will start reading from that very line, just the way that Kindle does. If the Logos mobile team doesn't know how VoiceOver works then I strongly recommend that you do some research, I think it will be well worth your time! Here are some links to get you started. Thank you so much in advance for hearing me out on this. In the meantime, I (and many others) await this to be fixed before we can update to any future Logos apps.
Also, VoiceOver is not just a feature for the visually impaired, it's a great way to instantly have free AudioBook support. Please don't try to charge us for this feature when it can easily be given for free with such little effort.
Make Your iOS App Accessible with VoiceOver
Amazon's Official Support for VoiceOver on their Kindle iOS Apps
Kindle now has text-to-speech on iPad, iPod, iPhone
Kindle For iOS Will Now Turn Your Favorite Books Into Audiobooks
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As my eyes continue to age, I'm thinking that features such as this will one day be much more important to me than they are now. I, too, hope support for audio in Logos will continue to be developed as resources allow.
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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As my eyes continue to age, I'm thinking that features such as this will one day be much more important to me than they are now. I, too, hope support for audio in Logos will continue to be developed as resources allow.
I'm young with great eye sight. The reason I value VoiceOver so much is not because of any visual impairment, but rather because it allows me to speed read with maximum comprehension. VoiceOver can be custom set to just about any speed. It has literally saved me hundreds of hours of reading time. And it allows you to listen to books hands free instead of reading them if you want to listen while walking or some other activity.
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I, too, hope support for audio in Logos will continue to be developed as resources allow.
Anyone who would like to have free AudioBook support added/re-added in Logos with custom audio speeds through the built-in iOS feature VoiceOver, please cast your vote on this UserVoice Suggestion! I just posted it and shared with my classmates who I know also want this and already we have over 35 votes! Let's keep the votes coming!
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Hey Tim, there is now 61 votes, hopefully there will be more votes. We need voice over. It does not make complete sense to me to drop this from the app.
Logos, can you please give us voice over back or make it a permanent feature? For someone like me, I like to listen to my book while I drive or work out. It is such a huge feature that needs attention.
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I totally agree with Timothy. I would really love to have VoiceOver Support back on my iPhone and iPad apps. It is extremely frustrating that this update took away that feature. Please roll back the iPad to the previous edition or fix the issue. Whatever new feature you added ruined one of the best features of Logos. I put my votes in as well. I'm counting on the Logos App team to speedily resolve this issue. Thanks in advance!
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Hey Tim, there is now 61 votes, hopefully there will be more votes.
Jason, that's more votes than the app scrolling feature suggestion (that was just implemented) ever got. Apparently only 43 votes was enough for the team to implement that feature. I hope VoiceOver will now get some attention. It sounds to me like this has been an unintentional/accidental feature removal on the Logos team's part, and now that they know how many people really want or have been using the VoiceOver feature already, they will add it back in or even give official support to it. We can only hope and pray, right?
And vote! lol.0 -
Now at 71 votes...
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It sounds to me like this has been an unintentional/accidental feature removal on the Logos team's part, and now that they know how many people really want or have been using the VoiceOver feature already, they will add it back in or even give official support to it.
The ability to have "read aloud" outside of VoiceOver is frequently requested, but Logos has made no commitments to the feature. I do know that some publishers, including zondervan, do NOT want this feature enabled for users. This is true with the Kindle app as well.
I am not sure exactly which "sticking points" remain with Vyrso and some publishers, but I have heard on more than one occasion that there are software changes which need to be made to appease some of the publishers. Presumably these changes relate to IP issues, and will work against the end user's best interests.
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Also, I've seen some people commenting on the forums and on the UserVoice site that VoiceOver with Logos was lame because of the random page flip bug where when a page turned, it sometimes would start reading a different page than it was showing. And while I agree that the page turn issue has been a frustration, I also believe that if Logos decides to officially support VoiceOver (what we are all hoping for), this bug should be able to be addressed. In the meantime, I've noticed that a quick workaround is that when the page flips incorrectly, simply a quick two finger down gesture on the screen works perfectly to get it back on the right page. Not ideal I know, but a workaround until they get it fixed properly.
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In the meantime, I've noticed that a quick workaround is that when the page flips incorrectly, simply a quick two finger down gesture on the screen works perfectly to get it back on the right page. Not ideal I know, but a workaround until they get it fixed properly.
^This...
I've done this too Tim and it works.
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because VoiceOver can SO EASILY be officially supported
Timothy, we do have a software developer opening - https://www.logos.com/jobs/SoftwareDeveloper .
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Timothy, we do have a software developer opening - https://www.logos.com/jobs/SoftwareDeveloper .
Thanks for the heads up, Kevin. I would actually love to work for Faithlife/Logos. My wife keeps telling me that I should work for you guys lol.
Unfortunately my current employment situation would not allow for it, but maybe someday!
In the meantime, I will pass word along about this opening to some other developers I know.
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I've been seeking proper support for this for ages. In my view, it is not the same as an audiobook. I prefer audio books for pleasure and a good listening experience but voiceover is an accessibility feature for those of us with accessibility needs. For example voiceover typically enables flexible speed, visual cues, fine control etc. It is a need, not a want which enables some people like myself to use their library. This feature being broken feels like having my library taken away. Timothy put up a uservoice suggestion in response to the problem which shows that lots of people use this, but we already had well over 100 people requesting proper support for accessibility here...
Please take accessibility seriously! There are a lot of people with dyslexia, visual impairment etc who NEED it... Android too.
I really appreciate your efforts Timothy but I am worried that calling it 'free audiobook support' will alarm publishers into blocking this. Yes you can get that free benefit but there will still be a market for audiobooks. I know many people who read very well without help do not like the computer voice. I don't like it either but I NEED it.
I would urge all those for whom it is an accessibility issue to write directly to Logos to explain your need because it is rarely profitable for companies. It doesn't help the bottom line of shops to put in ramps etc. Support for accessibility is done because it is the right thing to do, to enable people with different needs to participate in normal life.
גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה
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because VoiceOver can SO EASILY be officially supported
Timothy, we do have a software developer opening - https://www.logos.com/jobs/SoftwareDeveloper .
Also, Kevin, I apologize if in my zeal for this feature to be implemented I have made it sound as if the efforts of you and your team are not appreciated and undervalued by saying that it would be "SO EASY," etc.
What I mean when I say that is that compared to regular AudioBook features (or most other features for that matter), the Faithlife mobile team really doesn't have to code a whole new feature set, because VoiceOver is a feature that is built-in to the operating system. It is designed to naturally work with all apps. So "supporting this feature" should be easy in the sense that Apple has already done all the hard work. Faithlife simply has to allow Apple's feature work the way that it is intended to naturally work. I hope that adds some clarity as to what I meant when I said that it would be "SO EASY" etc.
I really do appreciate all your hard work and the rest of the team's work, and the time that you take to listen to our feedback.0 -
It is a need, not a want which enables some people like myself to use their library. This feature being broken feels like having my library taken away.
Wow, John. Thanks for sharing from the perspective of someone who really does need this. You are right, the rest of us are wanting to be able to take advantage of a side benefit of what is really meant for people like you. I hope Faithlife will support this for you even more than for us.
Timothy put up a uservoice suggestion in response to the problem which shows that lots of people use this, but we already had well over 100 people requesting proper support for accessibility here...
I saw that other suggestion, John, and I am glad for it. But the reason I created a new suggestion for this is because the existing suggestion mentioned nothing about VoiceOver specifically, and instead just says "read aloud" and "text-to-speech." This could easily be mistaken for being a suggestion about traditional AudioBook features, which seem to be how the Faithlife team understood this suggestion. I was confused at first why they marked the other suggestion as "STARTED" and said:
This is completed on iOS 7 devices.
Then I realized that the Faithlife mobile team must be thinking that this other suggestion is not about VoiceOver at all. This is why I created a new suggestion to be very specific as to what we as the Logos user and customer base are really wanting.
I really appreciate your efforts Timothy but I am worried that calling it 'free audiobook support' will alarm publishers into blocking this. Yes you can get that free benefit but there will still be a market for audiobooks.
I agree with you, check out my other posts here and here where I comment on this specific issue.
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I also want to highlight a recent comment on the VoiceOver UserVoice Suggestion. John Goodman is clearly not the only one who really does need this feature.
I have poor eyesight and I cannot read for extended periods. I really depended on the voiceover in Logos to help me. I pray that they find a way to add it back in for the apps.
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Just so everyone knows, creating multiple posts about the same mobile issue doesn't help code get fixed any faster. Three threads were created yesterday about VoiceOver support (this is the second one); this is entirely unnecessary.
Yours truly reads *all* threads on the mobile forums (and even mobile issues posted in the wrong forums), and I also manage the mobile UserVoice site. I'm fully aware of mobile customers' wants, needs, (and in rare cases demands and ultimatums), etc. I'm trying to be the best advocate I can for you so *please* help me do my job better by not creating multiple threads about the same issue.
That said, James is working on getting rudimentary VoiceOver support back.
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When I voted for VoiceOver support, at first I thought it referred to the page turn issue, which was annoying. I hadn't realised that the whole resource reading function had been broken or removed in the latest version. This is a major setback for me and I can imagine that it is an amazing feature for those who are visually impaired.
Mention has been made on the forums of publishers worried about losing out on sales of audio books, with Zondervan being specifically mentioned. However, the IOS VoiceOver function is essentially no different from the Read Aloud function in the Logos Windows app. I recently bought several Kindle eBooks when Zondervan were offering them at 70-80% discount. All these can be read aloud in the IOS Kindle app.
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This is a major setback for me
Please see my previous post.
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Thanks Kevin, it's good to know that someone is working on it [:D]
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I'm really grateful to Timothy, and others for raising the profile of VoiceOver. Thanks also to Kevin. I hope that passionate advocacy doesn't get tiresome! Your listening ear is much appreciated!
Incidentally I think Logos does a good job of listening and not listening because sometimes users like me don't know what we really want/need. For example, I have discovered so many wonderful books because they were included in bundles. At the time it annoyed me to pay extra for books I didn't want. Now they are my favourites;) Another example is the complexity/power of Logos vs the simplicity I once wished for. I now appreciate a vast array of features which seemed like bloat before.
I also understand you have orders of priority - its just that this one happens to be my very top priority... so much so it is a must have for me. I didn't intend to express an ultimatum but simply that almost all value in owning logos for me depends on this issue. At least if it was being deliberately phased out and would disappear from the desktop too. My investment into logos began because it was the only way I could get a copy of Futato's Hebrew Grammar in time for my course 3 years ago. Discovering the 'read aloud' feature led to my collection of 5000 books and 3 years of listening to assist my reading for many hours a week.
Obviously, I am very much relieved.[:)]
גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה
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I'm trying to be the best advocate I can for you so *please* help me do my job better by not creating multiple threads about the same issue.
I'm sorry, Kevin. I honestly didn't see the first thread that was created on this subject until after I created mine. If there's a way to merge the two topics, feel free to. I didn't mean for there to be two. It was honestly an accident. I'll try to do better at making sure I'm not creating a duplicate topic in the future.
That said, James is working on getting rudimentary VoiceOver support back.
That is great news! Thank you so much for this update and for working to get this issue addressed. We greatly appreciate it!
As John just said, I think many of us were concerned that this feature was deliberately being phased out, possibly never to return. But I am glad to see that this does not seem to be the case, so I also am very relieved!
Thanks again for your communication with us on this issue, Kevin, and for keeping us posted (if you can)! Blessings to you!0 -
I wasn't even aware of this functionality in the Logos app--I use the app in public without earphones. Other than some licensing and/or technical issues, it's certainly worth the effort.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
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I wasn't even aware of this functionality in the Logos app--I use the app in public without earphones. Other than some licensing and/or technical issues, it's certainly worth the effort.
VoiceOver isn't part of the Logos app, it's an iOS feature. Faithlife has never supported VoiceOver working properly with the Logos mobile app and to my knowledge will not support it in the future. We are "fixing* things to allow the same rudimentary function that was present in Logos 4.3.7 but got accidentally dropped out as a result of a major display rewrite to allow Scrolling.
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Faithlife has never supported VoiceOver working properly with the Logos mobile app and to my knowledge will not support it in the future.
Ok..... And you don't see this as a problem?
I'm thankful that Faithlife is going to return "rudimentary support" but I (along with many others) still hope for FULL VoiceOver support, as the UserVoice suggestion states.
After all, who is to say that the next feature release won't break this rudimentary support again or the next?
This is not the kind of stability or intentionally that I look for when it comes to investing my money as a customer into the products of a company. Especially on a feature that I depend on as greatly as this one.
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I'm sorry, I'm really trying to be reasonable here, I guess I'm just struggling to see the logic behind the position that you (and apparently the rest of the Logos Mobile team) seem to be taking. But perhaps I am misunderstanding you. Or perhaps I should let the rest of the team speak for themselves. Maybe you can help me out.
For example, multitasking and iPhone 6 Plus screen support are also built-in parts of the latest iOS platform. So to say:
VoiceOver isn't part of the Logos app, it's an iOS feature.
Is like saying, "Multitasking and iPhone 6 Plus screen support are not parts of the Logos app, they're only iOS features and so we've deliberately decided not to support multitasking and iPhone 6 Plus screen support now or in the future." As if they're optional, or as if you can separate your app from the operating system it runs on.
Why would you deliberately decide to hinder your software from supporting a basic feature (or any feature) of the operating system it runs on? As an experienced iOS developer myself with many apps on the App Store that I've developed, this logic makes no sense to me at all. Why wouldn't you want to take full advantage of what the operating system has to offer for Faithlife customers? But again, perhaps I'm missing something?
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I'm sorry, I'm really trying to be reasonable here, I guess I'm just struggling to see the logic behind the position that you (and apparently the rest of the Logos Mobile team) seem to be taking.
Keep in mind that Kevin is a tester for the mobile team and acts as advocate for us forum users. He doesn't have the final authority in what does or doesn't get implemented (for that matter, neither do most of the developers writing the actual code!). So while I definitely agree that VoiceOver is something that should be supported (I've wanted text-to-speech support added to Android for a LONG time!) and I'm all for making a lot of noise and making sure the request is heard, let's not direct it at Kevin or the Mobile team, because the decision of what features get worked on comes from higher up the food chain.
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Keep in mind that Kevin is a tester for the mobile team and acts as advocate for us forum users. He doesn't have the final authority in what does or doesn't get implemented (for that matter, neither do most of the developers writing the actual code!).
Point well taken.
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I've already given you at least one "deal breaker" preventing this from coming. Some publishers won't allow it. Open up any Zondervan title on your desktop app and try to use "read aloud."
This is absolutely correct as far as it goes. However, given that VoiceOver is an accessibility feature and thus brings in the question of "protected classes," there may be legal considerations for supporting it irrespective of publisher agreements. If you were Zondervan, would you want pulled into a courtroom because you wouldn't allow platform-level accessibility features to be applied to your resources? What if Apple all of a sudden (to protect themselves) stops approving apps which don't work correctly with VoiceOver (for applicable apps)?
Donnie
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