New Version(s) of iOS Apps Not Recommended.

I really hate to be obnoxious (ok, stop laughing).

But the new 'last read' feature (for which I've no idea why I even need it), is driving me up the wall. I open my book (the iOS app can't do that for me; the Kindle one always does). It takes me to my last read .... which is the chapter start .... not 'last read'. Why?

I have to dutifully click, click, click to get to where I was. Luckily I highlight so I just look until there's no highlights. I'd hate to think what would happen without the highlights. I read multiple books.

OK. Version 4.4 (latest for Biblia, Vyrso, Noet). Happens when you delete the app and re-open it. And no, I'm not going to leave the app in memory. We all learned our collective lesson on that one. iPad Mini. Version before the current. iOS8.1 latest.

EDIT: Before folks get out the witch forks, remember Bob requested angry-bird comments not be put in the eval section on iTunes ... keep it in the family.

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Comments

JT (alabama24)

I open my book (the iOS app can't do that for me; the Kindle one always does).

I have no idea what you are talking about. If you have "book a" open when you close the app, "book a" opens up to where you left off. On the other hand, if you close the app while in the library or home page, you are taken there instead.

It takes me to my last read .... which is the chapter start .... not 'last read'. Why?

Which resource(s) are you using? Are they Vyrso or Logos editions?

Happens when you delete the app and re-open it. And no, I'm not going to leave the app in memory. We all learned our collective lesson on that one.

Which "lesson" is that?

Todd Phillips

Happens when you delete the app and re-open it. And no, I'm not going to leave the app in memory. We all learned our collective lesson on that one.

Don't do that. Killing the app causes it to reset its state. Let it be suspended by the OS when you switch to another app. iOS will manage the memory, and the app will remember where you were last.

What is the problem with letting iOS manage it?

If for some reason you're worried about background CPU usage, turn off Background App Refresh for Logos in the Settings.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/669557#Comment_669557

Alabama:

1. First, my iOS apps (Logos) have never done what you described on my iPad mini: Open the app >> it opens the book where you left off. It always opens to the library. Now, the older version (prior to last week) DID then open to last location after selecting the book. The new version opens to the chapter beginning.

2. Which resource doesn't matter. They're all that way on my mini. And have been for a long time. The iPod is different; it does as you describe.

3. Did you somehow sleep thru the Logos disaster? The missing books by being logged in?

4. Have you actually used the latest version? 4.4+

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/669571#Comment_669571

Todd .... wouldn't be simpler just to do like Kindle. Open the book to where you were last? Is that so hard??

Please keep in mind, I use bunches of apps (art, reading, music, mapping, geology, etc). I don't have any need to leave them in memory and only the Logos apps (as usual) mis-behave.

Again I pose the question, why is returning a reader to a read page so hard for Logos coders?

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/669578#Comment_669578

Please keep in mind, I use bunches of apps (art, reading, music, mapping, geology, etc). I don't have any need to leave them in memory and only the Logos apps (as usual) mis-behave.

It didn't misbehave by just being in memory, rather it only had problems if you tried to use it while the servers were down.

Again I pose the question, why is returning a reader to a read page so hard for Logos coders?

Again I say, leave it running if you want to return to the same spot immediately.

I like that it resets itself when I kill it---usually when I have to do that it's because I have a misbehaving resource (or whatever), and I don't want it to go back to where it was. Besides, many other iOS apps do work this way (clearly the Kindle app isn't one of them). Maybe it's because I use buggy apps that need this ability to be easily reset.

(Needing to reset the app is another story altogether. Maybe if I didn't have problems regularly, then I would be more apt to agree with you on this point. But I'm a beta-tester....)

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/669585#Comment_669585

Todd ... I get the feeling you don't stress your iPad too much. Some of my apps put 6-8g out, forcing everyone out. The way they do that is to open multiple versions (e.g. organs).

Plus telling the folks at church that an app doesn't remember its place isn't going to be a big selling point. Especially after they've gotten used to Kindle, eReaders, pdf readers, Accordance, OliveTree, Laridian, ... need I continue?

I honestly have never heard of someone wanting NOT to return to where they were reading. But maybe my experience with Logos apps has been pretty bug free.

But I'm guessing you haven't used 4.4 either? The big black stripe on the bottom? Another interesting feature that no one in their right mind does.

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/669593#Comment_669593

Todd ... I get the feeling you don't stress your iPad too much. Some of my apps put 6-8g out, forcing everyone out. They way they do that is to open multiple versions (e.g. organs).

You'd be wrong. I have dozens of large apps. Full catalog astronomy apps, Logos, Kindle, photo editors, Google Earth, games like Minecraft that can eat up tons of memory. However, it's not hard to stress an iPad: Safari is the worst offender---it's easy for a large web page to use up all RAM in the iPad. Google Earth crashes regularly from lack of memory if you view it at the wrong angle.

Some of my apps put 6-8g out, forcing everyone out. They way they do that is to open multiple versions (e.g. organs).

Not sure what you mean here. 6-8g? organs? what does that mean?

I honestly have never heard of someone wanting NOT to return to where they were reading. And maybe my experience with Logos apps has been pretty bug free.

I'm not saying I don't want to return to where I was reading. I do. But I leave the app in memory, and it works fine when I return to it. Last week was a fluke.

The Logos app is not killed by running other apps. The state is saved when other apps are running. It may not be in active memory, but it is virtuallized to flash memory when there isn't enough space in RAM.

I think you do have a point. It would be nice if the app would remember where it was after a restart. There can be other ways to reset it. However, there is no need to kill the app for safety reasons, and in normal usage (leaving it running in the background), it does return to where you were.

See below....the app does return to where it was after a restart of the app.

Kenneth Neighoff

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/669593#Comment_669593

I am using 4.4 of the app in Verbum and Bible (Logos) and if I close it with a book, it opens to that book. If I close on library or home screen that is where it opens. I am using an IPad Air.

it works the same way on the Iphone 5.

Why you are having problems on your iPad mini, I have no way of answering, because I don't own one.

I can only answer from my personal experience.

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/669609#Comment_669609

I am using 4.4 of the app in Verbum and Bible (Logos) and if I close it with a book, it opens to that book. If I close on library or home screen that is where it opens. I am using an IPad Air.

Well I'll be. It does. And so I don't know what we're arguing about. I just tested it on both my iphone and ipad. Killed the Logos app, and it returned to where it was in the book I had opened.

DHG

Mine always opens to where I left off...and has for years. Something else must be wrong.

Yasmin Stephen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/669612#Comment_669612

I recently reinstalled the Logos app for iPad (the audio Bibles were buggy after the outage) and all my books still open at the last page read (even those I last read before the reinstall).

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/669617#Comment_669617

OK, guys. You've been learning all about Alabama's points.

Also note I said my mini; the iPod operates as you have all experienced. The mini has operated differently for quite some time (yes, with multiple updates, re-installs, and so forth). I'm used to that and have no hopes Logos will fix it any time soon.

So, calm down. That's not the issue. The issue is the new black stripe at the bottom which sends you to the chapter start.

1. Do you get the black stripe at the bottom?

2. Where does it send you?

3. Are you operating without internet?

(Keep in mind, the behavior I'm describing is new to 4.4. It's in all 3 of the available apps I'm using. And they all behave the same.)

EDIT: Yasmin ... if you're on Bible!, you're not likely on the new version; Apple hasn't released it yet (iPad version).

DHG

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/669621#Comment_669621

FWIW I'm using Bible! on the iPad mini, no problems like you describe with v4.3.7. And I never have.

Yasmin Stephen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/669621#Comment_669621

OK, guys. You've been learning all about Alabama's points.

Also note I said my mini; the iPod operates as you have all experienced. The mini has operated differently for quite some time (yes, with multiple updates, re-installs, and so forth). I'm used to that and have no hopes Logos will fix it any time soon.

So, calm down. That's not the issue. The issue is the new black stripe at the bottom which sends you to the chapter start.

1. Do you get the black stripe at the bottom?

2. Where does it send you?

3. Are you operating without internet?

(Keep in mind, the behavior I'm describing is new to 4.4. It's in all 3 of the available apps I'm using. And they all behave the same.)

EDIT: Yasmin ... if you're on Bible!, you're not likely on the new version; Apple hasn't released it yet (iPad version).

You're right; I'm still on 4.3.7. And I'm not getting a black stripe. Hmm, if this is the behavior I'm to expect when the update comes around, I might just have to skip it.

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/669621#Comment_669621

1. Do you get the black stripe at the bottom?

2. Where does it send you?

3. Are you operating without internet?

I'm running Bible! 4.4.0 (RC2) as a beta tester.

I rarely get the black stripe. Faithlife calls it a "toast" popup with the furthest read info in it.. I believe it only appears if you're opened the app to an earlier location than the furthest read location (which usually means you've opened it on more than one device or computer), but I'm having trouble causing it. I finally got it (pic below), but I'm not sure how. Seems buggy. However I rarely find the need to tap on it, as I am usually where I want to be (it disappears after a few seconds).

So as to where it sends me, I can't answer definitively, but it did not send me to the beginning of the chapter when I tapped on the one above.

(I am running with internet).

Also, based on the release notes (on the App Store), the furthest read "toast display" has been around since at least 4.3.0.

Faithlife should explain the functionality of the Furthest Read "Toast" a bit better, I believe.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/669646#Comment_669646

I get the black flag of death every time I open any of the resources in the updated apps. I don't even have to touch it, and I end up at the chapter start.

I don't run on the internet, nor does my L5 installation. I've already learned the L5 forces flags in the mobile app. How much is related to 'last read' I'm not sure (mobile vs desktop).

But I suspect, given all the defensiveness by beta testers, that I'll need to just plan ahead for the Logos apps not returning me correctly. Kindle it.

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/669659#Comment_669659

But I suspect, given all the defensiveness by beta testers, that I'll need to just plan ahead for the Logos apps not returning me correctly. Kindle it.

Sorry if it felt defensive, but my beta-tester status had nothing to do with my response other than the fact that I'm alrady running 4.4, and we do need to be clear as to what is happening and why. You started off by saying were killing the app all the time because of the problems from last week. That is a side issue, I suppose, but it seemed to me you were introducing problems into the mix that didn't need to be there.

Also, if you are always offline, then that's an important difference from most users. Logos has changed the way metadata is downloaded and stored in v4.4, and so if you run offline all the time, you may have not gotten all the metadata updated.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/669669#Comment_669669

The Logos disaster is indeed germaine. You wanted me to leave the apps in memory. The minute I accidentally go to them, they touch base with the mother ship. That's not a workable situation, given Logos' inept management of server architecture (surprising us all).

But now you say the app may not be stable unless I'm online? That's even worse. Plus the app apparently works with some mini's and not with others. That's re-assuring.

I don't know what the app people are doing ... for a long time everything was quiet and stable. Solid.

Then in early November, my book purchases wouldn't show up. Had to 'awaken' L5 to get the mobile to recognize my purchases.

I learn today (from the Logos guy, no less) not to change my password for fear of loosing my books. Great. Another wonderful Logos feature (yes, I'm being sarcastic ... why are Kindle, Olivetree, Accordance, Laridian, etc so 'well programmed'?).

And I am using 3.7 Bible!. No black stripe of death. No problems (outside the opening to the library, not the book). So if they had it already, they must have done something (in addition to the chapter opening problem).

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/669689#Comment_669689

The Logos disaster is indeed germaine. You wanted me to leave the apps in memory. The minute I accidentally go to them, they touch base with the mother ship. That's not a workable situation, given Logos' inept management of server architecture (surprising us all).

Denise, are you're saying you actually delete the app completely from the iPad to prevent the app from running? And then reinstall it again from the App Store when you want to use it? ---Excuse me if I'm misunderstanding, but I can't think of any other way of preventing the app from accidentally starting. Just killing the process doesn't prevent you from accidentally tapping the icon. Also, didn't you say you were running offline all the time? Shouldn't that be good enough prevention of any unwanted server contact?

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/669691#Comment_669691

No ..... then you'd loose all your downloaded books, if you uninstalled the app.

Double-hitting the control button and then fingering them 'up' (just to be clear). Removing them from the background. As iOS does when you run out of operating memory.

EDIT: You updated your comments. The 'accidental' is if the app is still in memory (background), and you accidentally slide it into the foreground, thereby allowing a sync. I don't think I've ever accidentally started up the app.

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/669694#Comment_669694

EDIT: You updated your comments.

Yes, I'm a re-editor. [8-|]

Double-hitting the control button and then fingering them 'up' (just to be clear).

Okay, good. As it has been shown that killing the app doesn't prevent it from returning to the same location (at least for others), I won't press the point. It seems you are having issues others aren't.

So have you ever started up the app while the iPad was online since you upgraded to 4.4? If not I might suggest it. The Bible! beta release notes: indicated: "Internal changes related to how resource metadata is stored. This will eliminate the need to update downloaded resources when only metadata has changed. The first run after updating may take up to 20 seconds per 100 downloaded resources to upgrade." I assume that's still applicable even though it's not noted in the App Store version history for Vyrso or Noet.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/669701#Comment_669701

No, can't say as I have (since as you point out, they kind of left it out). I have downloaded books, etc but I don't know if that involves sync'ing for 20 seconds.

I'll try it out. And then throw in the towel at least on the iOS forum.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/669707#Comment_669707

Okie, dokie. Seems to work. Though the black stripe of death remains a mystery.

Plus I've no idea why I need 2700 metadata pieces for 4 books in my iOS library. But we'll leave that for another day.

Thank you, Todd.

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/669714#Comment_669714

Okie, dokie. Seems to work. Though the black stripe of death remains a mystery.

Plus I've no idea why I need 2700 metadata pieces for 4 books in my iOS library. But we'll leave that for another day.

Thank you, Todd.

Good. When you says "seems to work" what are you referring to?

Does the app now open to the same place you left it? You're still getting the black bar every time?

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/669731#Comment_669731

The part about returning to my 'last read' works great, after I select the book (which I always have to do, but ok).

The 'black stripe of death' remains a curiousity for which (no offense) I've given up on. After going to my 'last read' with book opening (good), turning to the next page brings up the black stripe of death. Why? I've no clue. If I turn the page forward again, the stripe seems to have given up the chase.

However if I move to the abbreviations section of a book (usually near the front), page forward to let it get its bearings (the black stripe of death re-assures me by popping up), then going back to where I was previously, seems to not involve the stripe guy.

Best I can figure, he says 'Ok, this is your first page turn. Let's not forget that!' Now, he does have the 'X' to close the popup, but he closes anyway. So? I guess, I'm trying to understand what kind of coding it's pursuing!

But again, appreciate your patience and follow-up. Off to Country Music Christmas!!

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/669740#Comment_669740

For the moment, let's forget about how it is functioning for you. The black "toast" pop up should only appear when the app recognizes that you were at a DIFFERENT location on ANOTHER device. Any chance that is happening to you? Also, in defense of how it is supposed to work... The prescribed behavior is superior to kindle. The kindle sync is always and only to the furthest read location rather than the last read one. In other words, if you move from a to c to b, the kindle app <should> take you to c, whereas the logos apps <should> take you to b. Emphasis on "should". [:)]

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/669784#Comment_669784

Well, on my own apps (Logos), I've pretty much given up understanding the black stripe of death. It's pretty much disappeared for now (I'm reading in two Logos apps at the same time). So, the behavior above has disappeared (remembering the next page).

Regarding your question, both apps are using books downloaded to the respective apps. L5 doesn't know about them. So the black stripe only has the specific book on 1 app to work with.

Regarding your comment on Kindle, which one are you using? I'm using the iPad one. At the bottom is the progress bar with my last 3 'stops'. I like that A LOT. Plus Kindle lets you use page markers. My PaperWhite is more basic; page marker or furtherest read (as you said).

No offense meant to the Logos app, but when I started up Noet a few minutes ago, he returned me to the abbreviations section (where I was testing earlier), even though I had gone back to reading later in the book. It wasn't practical to search around for highlights, so I took a stab at the TOC and then guessed about where I should have been. I'd of loved the little dots on the Kindle progress bar (and L4/L5/L6).

The Logos app does have favorites but unfortunately I can't tell which book the abbreviations are for (outside going there). The apps share the favorites, so it's a jungle of abbreviations.

Anyway, appreciate you asking.

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/669784#Comment_669784

For the moment, let's forget about how it is functioning for you. The black "toast" pop up should only appear when the app recognizes that you were at a DIFFERENT location on ANOTHER device. Any chance that is happening to you? Also, in defense of how it is supposed to work... The prescribed behavior is superior to kindle. The kindle sync is always and only to the furthest read location rather than the last read one. In other words, if you move from a to c to b, the kindle app <should> take you to c, whereas the logos apps <should> take you to b. Emphasis on "should".

It should be superior, but I have a feeling it's not working correctly.

I was opening the same book on both my iPhone and iPad and computer, and was having great difficult getting the further read location to sync. I would close the iOS app while using it on another device, and open it after changing location elsewhere. I was not seeing the toast (I prefer "pop-tart" [:P]), and the location would not change. I finally saw it when I paged backwards on my iPad, which doesn't make sense.

Mitchell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/669789#Comment_669789

I expect and desire all of my apps to re-open in the same place that I left them UNLESS I close the app by swiping up in the multitask menu. When I do that, I expect that it will re-open in a virgin state—at the home page or whatever is the default. This is normal behavior on iOS.

You may want to give this a read: http://www.speirs.org/blog/2012/1/2/misconceptions-about-ios-multitasking.html

Kevin Byford (Faithlife)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/669804#Comment_669804

I expect and desire all of my apps to re-open in the same place that I left them UNLESS I close the app by swiping up in the multitask menu. When I do that, I expect that it will re-open in a virgin state—at the home page or whatever is the default. This is normal behavior on iOS.

You may want to give this a read: http://www.speirs.org/blog/2012/1/2/misconceptions-about-ios-multitasking.html

Mitchell,

Thanks for posting this - here's a followup post: http://appadvice.com/appnn/2012/01/fact-or-myth-killing-apps-in-the-ios-multitasking-bar-boosts-performance

This same topic has been discussed in the Android forums, the relevant link being http://www.howtogeek.com/127388/htg-explains-why-you-shouldnt-use-a-task-killer-on-android/ .

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/669815#Comment_669815

Well, judging from Kevin checking out other sites, the 'toast' is pretty toast. They need to get back to good coding.

I'll skip this update on my Bible!.

Tim Taylor

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/669917#Comment_669917

I'll skip this update on my Bible!.

Me too! The biggest disappointment for me is the VoiceOver support is now completely gone. That was the most used feature for me and now it's gone so I will hold off on any future updates until that is fixed.

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/669918#Comment_669918

Me too! The biggest disappointment for me is the VoiceOver support is now completely gone. That was the most used feature for me and now it's gone so I will hold off on any future updates until that is fixed.

Just wanted to flag Kevin's post at https://community.logos.com/forums/p/97127/669790.aspx#669790 where he states that VoiceOver was never supported for use with the Logos apps - but that he is submitting a request to try and find out why it no longer works.

Doc B

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/669606#Comment_669606

games like Minecraft

Minecraft? Oh, Todd....

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/669948#Comment_669948

games like Minecraft

Minecraft? Oh, Todd....

Not me. My daughters.

Tim Taylor

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/669920#Comment_669920

Just wanted to flag Kevin's post at https://community.logos.com/forums/p/97127/669790.aspx#669790 where he states that VoiceOver was never supported for use with the Logos apps - but that he is submitting a request to try and find out why it no longer works.

Thanks for making me aware of this, Graham. I have also posted a thread that outlines how Logos really should support VoiceOver. Kindle does it, many other apps do it, etc. Also I just posted a UserVoice Suggestion for this and shared it with my classmates who I know also want this and already we have over 45 votes! Let's keep the votes coming!

John Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/670004#Comment_670004

I agree with Timothy and the others that are requesting VoiceOver support again. Unfortunately my app automatically upgraded on both my iPhone and iPad and now I can't use VoiceOver. How disappointing! I hope the Logos team will quickly resolve this problem! All of us have spent a lot of money for our Logos Libraries and it would be a shame to no have this feature available. I wish I would have never upgraded to this new version.. Please FIX this issue ASAP. Thanks!

Kevin Byford (Faithlife)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/670035#Comment_670035

Please see https://community.logos.com/forums/t/97152.aspx