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This post has 41 Replies | 3 Followers

Posts 506
Tim Taylor | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Dec 2 2014 6:33 AM

While I am appreciative that the Logos team is adding a new feature of the scrolling view, I am very very very very disappointed that in implementing this feature, they have completely broken VoiceOver support.

I use VoiceOver in Logos every single day, it's perhaps the most used feature for me, and I can say the same for a whole community of students here at the same Seminary I attend. I have spread the word to them NOT to update the app until this is fixed. There is a whole community of us who use this feature so much that it's not worth updating to any future apps until this is fixed.

Now, I know that I've read before on the forums that "Logos doesn't officially support VoiceOver," but I find that answer so frustrating (just being honest) because VoiceOver can SO EASILY be officially supported so there is really no reason why Logos should not support this feature. This is the quickest, easiest way to allow people to have instant text-to-speech features!

In my humble opinion, Logos really needs to take some clues from Kindle and how well they have supported VoiceOver. It seems to me that Logos used to support VoiceOver in Containers but not Lines (I'm referring to the VoiceOver Rotors). I would love to see Logos support not only Containers again but even Lines so that you can tap anywhere on the page and it will start reading from that very line, just the way that Kindle does. If the Logos mobile team doesn't know how VoiceOver works then I strongly recommend that you do some research, I think it will be well worth your time! Here are some links to get you started. Thank you so much in advance for hearing me out on this. In the meantime, I (and many others) await this to be fixed before we can update to any future Logos apps.

Also, VoiceOver is not just a feature for the visually impaired, it's a great way to instantly have free AudioBook support. Please don't try to charge us for this feature when it can easily be given for free with such little effort.

Make Your iOS App Accessible with VoiceOver

Amazon's Official Support for VoiceOver on their Kindle iOS Apps

Kindle now has text-to-speech on iPad, iPod, iPhone

Kindle For iOS Will Now Turn Your Favorite Books Into Audiobooks

Posts 2902
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 2 2014 7:25 AM

As my eyes continue to age, I'm thinking that features such as this will one day be much more important to me than they are now. I, too, hope support for audio in Logos will continue to be developed as resources allow.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 506
Tim Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 2 2014 7:42 AM

Doc B:

As my eyes continue to age, I'm thinking that features such as this will one day be much more important to me than they are now. I, too, hope support for audio in Logos will continue to be developed as resources allow.

I'm young with great eye sight. The reason I value VoiceOver so much is not because of any visual impairment, but rather because it allows me to speed read with maximum comprehension. VoiceOver can be custom set to just about any speed. It has literally saved me hundreds of hours of reading time. And it allows you to listen to books hands free instead of reading them if you want to listen while walking or some other activity.

Posts 506
Tim Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 2 2014 9:19 AM

Doc B:

I, too, hope support for audio in Logos will continue to be developed as resources allow.

Anyone who would like to have free AudioBook support added/re-added in Logos with custom audio speeds through the built-in iOS feature VoiceOver, please cast your vote on this UserVoice Suggestion! I just posted it and shared with my classmates who I know also want this and already we have over 35 votes! Let's keep the votes coming!

Posts 191
Rev. 14:6 | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 2 2014 11:07 AM

Hey Tim, there is now 61 votes, hopefully there will be more votes.  We need voice over.  It does not make complete sense to me to drop this from the app. 

Logos, can you please give us voice over back or make it a permanent feature?  For someone like me, I like to listen to my book while I drive or work out.  It is such a huge feature that needs attention.  

Posts 81
John Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 2 2014 11:18 AM

I totally agree with Timothy. I would really love to have VoiceOver Support back on my iPhone and iPad apps. It is extremely frustrating that this update took away that feature. Please roll back the iPad to the previous edition or fix the issue. Whatever new feature you added ruined one of the best features of Logos. I put my votes in as well. I'm counting on the Logos App team to speedily resolve this issue. Thanks in advance!

Posts 506
Tim Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 2 2014 12:34 PM

Rev. 14:6:

Hey Tim, there is now 61 votes, hopefully there will be more votes.

Jason, that's more votes than the app scrolling feature suggestion (that was just implemented) ever got. Apparently only 43 votes was enough for the team to implement that feature. I hope VoiceOver will now get some attention. It sounds to me like this has been an unintentional/accidental feature removal on the Logos team's part, and now that they know how many people really want or have been using the VoiceOver feature already, they will add it back in or even give official support to it. We can only hope and pray, right? :) And vote! lol.

Posts 191
Rev. 14:6 | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 2 2014 1:51 PM

Now at 71 votes...

Posts 28282
Forum MVP
JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 2 2014 1:55 PM

Timothy Taylor:
It sounds to me like this has been an unintentional/accidental feature removal on the Logos team's part, and now that they know how many people really want or have been using the VoiceOver feature already, they will add it back in or even give official support to it.

The ability to have "read aloud" outside of VoiceOver is frequently requested, but Logos has made no commitments to the feature. I do know that some publishers, including zondervan, do NOT want this feature enabled for users. This is true with the Kindle app as well. 

I am not sure exactly which "sticking points" remain with Vyrso and some publishers, but I have heard on more than one occasion that there are software changes which need to be made to appease some of the publishers. Presumably these changes relate to IP issues, and will work against the end user's best interests.

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 506
Tim Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 2 2014 3:31 PM

Also, I've seen some people commenting on the forums and on the UserVoice site that VoiceOver with Logos was lame because of the random page flip bug where when a page turned, it sometimes would start reading a different page than it was showing. And while I agree that the page turn issue has been a frustration, I also believe that if Logos decides to officially support VoiceOver (what we are all hoping for), this bug should be able to be addressed. In the meantime, I've noticed that a quick workaround is that when the page flips incorrectly, simply a quick two finger down gesture on the screen works perfectly to get it back on the right page. Not ideal I know, but a workaround until they get it fixed properly.

Posts 191
Rev. 14:6 | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 2 2014 5:12 PM

Timothy Taylor:
In the meantime, I've noticed that a quick workaround is that when the page flips incorrectly, simply a quick two finger down gesture on the screen works perfectly to get it back on the right page. Not ideal I know, but a workaround until they get it fixed properly.

^This...

I've done this too Tim and it works.

Posts 4264
LogosEmployee
Kevin Byford (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 2 2014 9:03 PM

Timothy Taylor:
because VoiceOver can SO EASILY be officially supported

Timothy, we do have a software developer opening - https://www.logos.com/jobs/SoftwareDeveloper .

Posts 506
Tim Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 3 2014 12:49 AM

Kevin Byford:

Timothy, we do have a software developer opening - https://www.logos.com/jobs/SoftwareDeveloper .

Thanks for the heads up, Kevin. I would actually love to work for Faithlife/Logos. My wife keeps telling me that I should work for you guys lol.

Unfortunately my current employment situation would not allow for it, but maybe someday!

In the meantime, I will pass word along about this opening to some other developers I know.

Posts 1040
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 3 2014 1:59 AM

I've been seeking proper support for this for ages. In my view, it is not the same as an audiobook. I prefer audio books for pleasure and a good listening experience but voiceover is an accessibility feature for those of us with accessibility needs. For example voiceover typically enables flexible speed, visual cues, fine control etc. It is a need, not a want which enables some people like myself to use their library. This feature being broken feels like having my library taken away. Timothy put up a uservoice suggestion in response to the problem which shows that lots of people use this, but we already had well over 100 people requesting proper support for accessibility here... 

https://logosmobile.uservoice.com/forums/190765-logos-mobile-apps/suggestions/3671914-enable-read-aloud-or-text-to-speech-like-in-the-de

Please take accessibility seriously! There are a lot of people with dyslexia, visual impairment etc who NEED it... Android too.

I really appreciate your efforts Timothy but I am worried that calling it 'free audiobook support' will alarm publishers into blocking this. Yes you can get that free benefit but there will still be a market for audiobooks. I know many people who read very well without help do not like the computer voice. I don't like it either but I NEED it.

I would urge all those for whom it is an accessibility issue to write directly to Logos to explain your need because it is rarely profitable for companies. It doesn't help the bottom line of shops to put in ramps etc. Support for accessibility is done because it is the right thing to do, to enable people with different needs to participate in normal life.

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 506
Tim Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 3 2014 4:54 AM

Kevin Byford:

Timothy Taylor:
because VoiceOver can SO EASILY be officially supported

Timothy, we do have a software developer opening - https://www.logos.com/jobs/SoftwareDeveloper .

Also, Kevin, I apologize if in my zeal for this feature to be implemented I have made it sound as if the efforts of you and your team are not appreciated and undervalued by saying that it would be "SO EASY," etc.

What I mean when I say that is that compared to regular AudioBook features (or most other features for that matter), the Faithlife mobile team really doesn't have to code a whole new feature set, because VoiceOver is a feature that is built-in to the operating system. It is designed to naturally work with all apps. So "supporting this feature" should be easy in the sense that Apple has already done all the hard work. Faithlife simply has to allow Apple's feature work the way that it is intended to naturally work. I hope that adds some clarity as to what I meant when I said that it would be "SO EASY" etc. :) I really do appreciate all your hard work and the rest of the team's work, and the time that you take to listen to our feedback.

Posts 506
Tim Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 3 2014 11:42 AM

John Goodman:
It is a need, not a want which enables some people like myself to use their library. This feature being broken feels like having my library taken away.

Wow, John. Thanks for sharing from the perspective of someone who really does need this. You are right, the rest of us are wanting to be able to take advantage of a side benefit of what is really meant for people like you. I hope Faithlife will support this for you even more than for us.

John Goodman:
Timothy put up a uservoice suggestion in response to the problem which shows that lots of people use this, but we already had well over 100 people requesting proper support for accessibility here...

I saw that other suggestion, John, and I am glad for it. But the reason I created a new suggestion for this is because the existing suggestion mentioned nothing about VoiceOver specifically, and instead just says "read aloud" and "text-to-speech." This could easily be mistaken for being a suggestion about traditional AudioBook features, which seem to be how the Faithlife team understood this suggestion. I was confused at first why they marked the other suggestion as "STARTED" and said:

Kevin Byford:
This is completed on iOS 7 devices.

Then I realized that the Faithlife mobile team must be thinking that this other suggestion is not about VoiceOver at all. This is why I created a new suggestion to be very specific as to what we as the Logos user and customer base are really wanting.

John Goodman:
I really appreciate your efforts Timothy but I am worried that calling it 'free audiobook support' will alarm publishers into blocking this. Yes you can get that free benefit but there will still be a market for audiobooks.

I agree with you, check out my other posts here and here where I comment on this specific issue.

Posts 506
Tim Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 3 2014 11:57 AM
I also want to highlight a recent comment on the VoiceOver UserVoice Suggestion. John Goodman is clearly not the only one who really does need this feature.
Jimmy Kinnaird:

I have poor eyesight and I cannot read for extended periods. I really depended on the voiceover in Logos to help me. I pray that they find a way to add it back in for the apps.

Posts 4264
LogosEmployee
Kevin Byford (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 3 2014 12:31 PM

Just so everyone knows, creating multiple posts about the same mobile issue doesn't help code get fixed any faster.  Three threads were created yesterday about VoiceOver support (this is the second one); this is entirely unnecessary.

Yours truly reads *all* threads on the mobile forums (and even mobile issues posted in the wrong forums), and I also manage the mobile UserVoice site.  I'm fully aware of mobile customers' wants, needs, (and in rare cases demands and ultimatums), etc.  I'm trying to be the best advocate I can for you so *please* help me do my job better by not creating multiple threads about the same issue.  

That said, James is working on getting rudimentary VoiceOver support back.

Posts 16
David R Saunders | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 3 2014 12:40 PM

When I voted for VoiceOver support, at first I thought it referred to the page turn issue, which was annoying. I hadn't realised that the whole resource reading function had been broken or removed in the latest version.  This is a major setback for me and I can imagine that it is an amazing feature for those who are visually impaired.

Mention has been made  on the forums of  publishers worried about losing out on sales of audio books, with Zondervan being specifically mentioned. However, the IOS VoiceOver function is essentially no different from the Read Aloud function in the Logos Windows app. I recently bought several Kindle eBooks when Zondervan were offering them at 70-80% discount. All these can be read aloud in the IOS Kindle app.

Posts 4264
LogosEmployee
Kevin Byford (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 3 2014 12:42 PM

David R Saunders:
 This is a major setback for me

Please see my previous post.

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