User Manual for Logos4

I love, love, love Logos4 and find great pleasure in delving into its features when preparing for a sermon, bible study or just personal study. However, I am absolutely astounded that, as full and expensive as this program is, it doesn't come with a FREE users manual - a manual that explains and details all the great features. I purchased the Logos 3 manual and received it 2 weeks before discovering that Logos4 was out - a waist of $30.00, it turns out. I find it hard to fathom why I should be paying a further $60.00 for two more manuals after paying what I did for the program. I love Logos4, I enjoy immensely using it - but I question the decision not to provide a full manual with the purchase price ... I know they have help screens, but it isn't quite the same ... I'd rather put the money into more books.

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Rosie Perera

I love, love, love Logos4 and find great pleasure in delving into its features when preparing for a sermon, bible study or just personal study. However, I am absolutely astounded that, as full and expensive as this program is, it doesn't come with a FREE users manual - a manual that explains and details all the great features. I purchased the Logos 3 manual and received it 2 weeks before discovering that Logos4 was out - a waist of $30.00, it turns out. I find it hard to fathom why I should be paying a further $60.00 for two more manuals after paying what I did for the program. I love Logos4, I enjoy immensely using it - but I question the decision not to provide a full manual with the purchase price ... I know they have help screens, but it isn't quite the same ... I'd rather put the money into more books.

There are a lot of free training videos, and even more created by savvy users. There is also the user-generated wiki which we are developing to be (hopefully someday) as good as any training manual. Logos used to provide a rudimentary print-based user's guide for free with the program, but most software stopped shipping with print-based user's manuals sometime in the late 90s, since it was difficult to get such a thing finished and really thorough and up-to-the-minute by the time the software shipped. So after-market manuals became the norm. If you look in the computer section of any big chain bookstore you'll see all the user's guides that should have come with the software (Windows, Office, Adobe, etc.) but didn't. Logos is no exception in the reasons for why they do this nowadays. Economics and practicality. It would be obsolete by the time it was in your hands if they shipped it with the product.

Paul Golder

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65762#Comment_65762

It would be obsolete by the time it was in your hands if they shipped it with the product.

Or in the case of L3, the product is obsolete when the manual finally ships... [:D]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65786#Comment_65786

So perhaps the lame in-program Logos 4 help is simply a clever marketing scheme to sell user manuals? Really, I don't mind the lack of a separate manual but the in-program help doesn't provide enough information!

Ronald Quick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65808#Comment_65808

I wouldn't mind having a hard copy of the manuals, but I would prefer to see Logos offer the manuals within L4 itself as another resource.

Paul Golder

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65808#Comment_65808

Really, I don't mind the lack of a separate manual but the in-program help doesn't provide enough information!

I wholeheartedly agree. The software that Rosie had mentioned (Windows, Office, Adobe, etc.) all include a comprehensive help system. Having a ready reference like this would be invaluable in L4.

Paul Golder

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65815#Comment_65815

Has anyone purchased the MP manuals yet?

If so, what level of expertise are they written to?

And are they worth the investment?

Chuck P.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65825#Comment_65825

Mine are on the way..hope he updates pages with online PDF files as the software improves with changes....it's not 60.00....shipping is over 12.00....

Terry Poperszky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65831#Comment_65831

Mine are on the way..hope he updates pages with online PDF files as the software improves with changes....it's not 60.00....shipping is over 12.00....

Let us know Charles. With the speed with which L4 is progressing, I have been hesitant to buy them. Even many of the free videos need to be re-done based on the improvements in 4.0a

Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65831#Comment_65831

hope he updates pages with online PDF files as the software improves with changes..

This is one of two reasons why I have decided not to purchase the manuals. L4 is a beta program. The second reason is because there is zero sense in not making the manual a resource to purchase in Logos.

Esther Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65837#Comment_65837

hope he updates pages with online PDF files as the software improves with changes..

This is one of two reasons why I have decided not to purchase the manuals. L4 is a beta program. The second reason is because there is zero sense in not making the manual a resource to purchase in Logos.

Or just part of the Help files, for crying out loud. Easy to update when changes are made...

Esther

J. Morris

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65831#Comment_65831

I'd have to agree with the reasonable line of thinking that L4 (or any program for that matter) should come with a thorough user manual. I've never been a fan of the Logos way of selling manuals (or videos) on how to use their software.

While there are many free Logos instructional videos (very basic and short), it is the user videos that are most helpful. Without the user videos, I know I'd still be lost with many of the functions and abilities of L4.

Though the user videos (thank you to all) are the most helpful, I do not believe it should be the responsibility of the users to explain to other users how to utilize the software.

If you want users (esp. new to Logos users) to be happy with their software you've got to make sure they can use it (all of it) well. In the case of Logos it is really up to the users to figure it out (and always has been) unless you want (can) fork out hundreds of extra dollars for manuals, videos, and seminars.

I am just venting my own frustration on the lack of up-front detailed training for Logos (first stemming from the release of L3). Don't get me wrong, the official Logos videos ARE helpful, but simply too basic and not comprehensive. (Ex. a video series on implimentation durring study) I am extremely grateful for those who take the time to make and post videos for 'us'. Without you, we'd still be pretty lost, and Logos phone lines would be jammed for weeks to come.

Henry Finkle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65849#Comment_65849

It would be nice to have a good help file or manual in digital format. I personally don't mind in what kind of digital form. It could be integrated into L4 or it might as well just be pdf files. It would also make it easier for me to move around with.

I have the L3 training manual but I don't know if it's legal to scan the training manual for my own personal use

Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65860#Comment_65860

It may be that if Logos entered into a different agreement with Morris Proctor...to pay him directly to have the manual integrated into L4...and then somehow make the customer pay without them noticing (charge a few more dollars for a few resources or for a base package)...I would think this would be wise business....Morris would get more sales, Logos would not be actually paying for it (users are paying) and all customers think they are getting a free resource or one they feel should be free.

Juanita

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65849#Comment_65849

I'd have to agree with the reasonable line of thinking that L4 (or any program for that matter) should come with a thorough user manual. I've never been a fan of the Logos way of selling manuals (or videos) on how to use their software.

While there are many free Logos instructional videos (very basic and short), it is the user videos that are most helpful. Without the user videos, I know I'd still be lost with many of the functions and abilities of L4.

Though the user videos (thank you to all) are the most helpful, I do not believe it should be the responsibility of the users to explain to other users how to utilize the software.

If you want users (esp. new to Logos users) to be happy with their software you've got to make sure they can use it (all of it) well. In the case of Logos it is really up to the users to figure it out (and always has been) unless you want (can) fork out hundreds of extra dollars for manuals, videos, and seminars.

I am just venting my own frustration on the lack of up-front detailed training for Logos (first stemming from the release of L3). Don't get me wrong, the official Logos videos ARE helpful, but simply too basic and not comprehensive. (Ex. a video series on implimentation durring study) I am extremely grateful for those who take the time to make and post videos for 'us'. Without you, we'd still be pretty lost, and Logos phone lines would be jammed for weeks to come.

I agree totally with what you have said, Jeremiah and others. The Help section should be very robust. We shouldn't have to pay for expensive training and manuals. But, I doubt it will change so I have to do a mental shift to keep from abiding in a sense of frustration and say "it is only software and I will use it and keep my peace." God Bless

J. Morris

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65881#Comment_65881

I agree totally with what you have said, Jeremiah and others. The Help section should be very robust. We shouldn't have to pay for expensive training and manuals. But, I doubt it will change so I have to do a mental shift to keep from abiding in a sense of frustration and say "it is only software and I will use it and keep my peace." God Bless

At one point, a few years back, I gave up on Logos/Libronix because of my frustration on leaning how to "power use" the program. I stopped using L3, bought another Bible software program, and used it for about 8 months. The other program was a bit easier to use, but lacked greatly in total function.

I switched back to L3, bought some training manuals, short-cut cards, and the like and started using L3 again. IMO Logos blows the competition out of the water, I realized it and so I 'came back'.

I understand that because Logos puts so much into their software there is much to learn. I just feel users would be even more pleased with it if they understood how to get everything out of it that is possible. Training material cost money to make, I know, but as has been suggested adding a few extra dollars to base packages would cover it and would ensure a much greater level of customer satisfaction.

Paul Golder

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65887#Comment_65887

but as has been suggested adding a few extra dollars to base packages would cover it and would ensure a much greater level of customer satisfaction.

The problem is that, on average, 64% of users, of any software title, never read the manual.

So those 64% would be buying something they would never use.

One solution would be to offer the manuals at a discount price during purchase of the software.

Chuck P.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65892#Comment_65892

The manuals should be in PDF online files and the user could decide to print or not....also, it would make it a lot easier and less expensive to keep updated if no hard copies were mailed....

Rick Ross

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65825#Comment_65825

Paul,

I have both MP Manuals and they so far have answered any question I have had. I confess I am a new user even though I originally had Nelson's eBible that I used occasionally along with a number of other Bible Software packages. With the exception of SwordSearcher I did not like how they functioned, but that could be because they also did not have a very good manual to explain how to use them to their fullest.

I believe the MP Manuals are worth the cost. What you may have further questions about the software can be found here in the Forum through the help of those more knowledgeable.

Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65892#Comment_65892

on average, 64% of users, of any software title, never read the manual.

Interesting. I like statistics like these. Can you share where you got this figure from?

One of the counter arguments for what you say here is that people pay money for parts of programs they never plan to use. In the percentage you have to figure in people who dont read the manual because they already have a basic understanding of the program. Some read manuals only when they have a question and the manual is there to answer it. Statistics are interesting because they can be used to promote any argument you want. Is it really true that 46% of all users READ a manual? or do people REFER to manuals in time of need?

Paul Golder

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65910#Comment_65910

Interesting. I like statistics like these. Can you share where you got this figure from?

Just an old number that I had in my head, probably different now since included manuals are practically non existent.

One thing I can add, from personal experience, is back in my years in tech support very rarely had anyone ever read the manuals before calling in. There were SPA surveys back in the early 90's that showed most users did not read their manuals, and this is what led to the current trend of not including manuals. (albeit the main goal was to increase profit, but it did help to reduce consumer costs).

Paul Golder

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65910#Comment_65910

Is it really true that 46% of all users READ a manual?

One thing I forgot to add. There was differing numbers between the male/female demographic. Women read manuals 2:1 more than men did, this I'm sure still holds true [:)]

Gavin Robertson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65762#Comment_65762

Thanks Rosie - I appreciate your response. But it doesn't alleviate my frustration in not having a manual that is a part of (or comes with) Logos 4 that I can look through to familarize myself with the program's features or to reference as needed. For example, I just finished viewing an excellent video by Mark Barnes in which he does a search for "divorce NEAR shame". Now, nowhere within the Logos 4 program can I locate the keywords (like NEAR) I can use with a search -- hugely frustrating, and in my mind entirely unnecessary. The answer may be online, but having to go online to find something as basic as this seems silly.

Jeffery Bentley

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65825#Comment_65825

Yes I ordered them the same day I ordered L4 and they came 3 days later after I got L4. I personally think they are worth the money. I ordered both volume 1 and 2 and now I always have them. I took the time to go through both manuals spending almost 4 whole days doing so. I learned way more than I ever could have on my own. It is also cheaper than the seminar. I like manuals and I am a manual learner. Some people like a classroom setting better. It's a personal preference. I now know how to accurately read the codes in the interlinear Bibles. Morris has a whole chapter just on the Louw-Nida resource which was very informative to me. I was totally ignorant of that resource. I have them on my desk and they are there for easy reference. He also gives you lots of ideas to explore on your own. He makes you think about different ways you can approach a line of inquiry. I like that. So yes for me it was worth it.

Juanita

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/66014#Comment_66014

Based on these posts, the thought I have is we need a manual or manuals that lean towards a more exhaustive treatment of L4. We know Help doesn't, but I did purchase other Morris Proctor manuals in the past-L3 and previous renditions of Logos Bible software. They seemed really basic-still good-but geared toward the beginner; almost the same coverage that you would get viewing the videos that are already up on the Logos training page.

I cannot physically attend Camp Logos and it usually takes a year or so to get that on dvd. And there will be many upgrades where features are added so manuals written weeks ago for L4 will contain dated material. For now, I am benefitting more from what I learn on the forum and also Mark and John's videos.

J. Morris

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/66063#Comment_66063

And there will be many upgrades where features are added so manuals written weeks ago for L4 will contain dated material.

This is a real BIG concern of mine. How can the manuals be of greatest benifit when there are MAJOR upgrades yet to come? I'm guessing there will be updated manuals at some point. (There would have to be)

So... purchase the manuals now (which were finished when L4 came out)... and then RE-purchase the up-dated (I assume) manuals (and/or prob. videos) a year from now?

I have a hard time being 'on-board' with this concept. I want (need) the manuals, but they will be 'dated' 6 months from now and missing KEY insturctions on how to use the updated program in the near and long term.

Morris Proctor

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/66075#Comment_66075

Thanks for your interest in the manuals. You are correct that the content is being updated right along with Logos 4. When you purchase them through Logos or mp|seminars please send an e-mail to info@mpseminars.com and we’ll e-mail manual changes to you as they become available.

Thanks,
Morris

Chuck P.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/66116#Comment_66116

"we’ll e-mail manual changes to you as they become available." Now that's what I'm talking about....thanks, Morris

Anthony Etienne

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65825#Comment_65825

Has anyone purchased the MP manuals yet?

If so, what level of expertise are they written to?

And are they worth the investment?

Yes I have and I think, that they are definately worth it; and since I can't make it to any of the Camp Logos meetings. The manuals are a very reasonble alternative. By the time they got delivered (about a week via USPS) I was adept enough to skip a few sections. Mainly because of the free training videos on the Logos site and the very well done user videos. I'm really glad that I chose to order them, as they are good reference; and I can teach new users and friends, who stop by to use my library.

Roger King

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/66173#Comment_66173

Has anyone purchased the MP manuals yet?

If so, what level of expertise are they written to?

And are they worth the investment?

Yes they are good and quite thorough. The only "complaint" I have is the multiple printing errors. I would think in a relatively small document such as these there wouldn't be any (these are pretty glaring) - plus the fact that they are $30 each. But I am willing to overlook this for the thoroughness in covering the Logos 4 program. (Actually I have always found errors in most of Moris Proctor's manuals - missing lines, words, etc.) I should also state that I am a teacher and been trained to see errors in writing.

Anthony Etienne

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65894#Comment_65894

The manuals should be in PDF online files and the user could decide to print or not....also, it would make it a lot easier and less expensive to keep updated if no hard copies were mailed....

In this case, the piracy issue surfaces; of course it could be locked and keyed to the purchaser. Apress books does this for the PDF version of the C# book I bought.

I personally don't have a problem spending a few extra dollars to have Morris Proctor based training manuals, lets face it; the guy is a VERY good teacher. I feel like I"m also purchasing some of his personal time training me on getting the most out of Logos 4. You guys all make a valid point, but I have also been on the business end of software/hardware development and software QA. Coming from being a former systems engineer for the worlds largest computer manufacture. Embedded manuals and training material, are sparce and leave something to be desired, from a lot af major companies. If they do offer manuals and or training it is 3rd party, and if it is done by the company then outsource with shabby QA.

Anthony Etienne

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/66116#Comment_66116

Thanks for your interest in the manuals. You are correct that the content is being updated right along with Logos 4. When you purchase them through Logos or mp|seminars please send an e-mail to info@mpseminars.com and we’ll e-mail manual changes to you as they become available.

Thanks,
Morris

[Y][Y]

Jason

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/66199#Comment_66199

Maybe I've missed this somewhere, but I'd love at least a centralized listing of all the possible search operators in L3/L4. I've sometimes reconstructed some using what other people have posted here, but I still would like a good list of those different operators and things you can do with morphology and syntax. If it's in the wiki, could someone point me there?

Thanks.

Terry Poperszky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/66116#Comment_66116

Thanks for your interest in the manuals. You are correct that the content is being updated right along with Logos 4. When you purchase them through Logos or mp|seminars please send an e-mail to info@mpseminars.com and we’ll e-mail manual changes to you as they become available.

So, if what understand you saying is correct, you adjust you seminars as new features are released? What type of lead time does that normally entail?

Morris Proctor

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/66238#Comment_66238

Hey Terry,
Our seminars are always based on the current release of the software. So now we’re training on 4.0a. Of course there’s no way to cover all Logos 4 features in any one seminar. The features covered in the seminar are always current. For example, the updated Cited By tool in 4.0a is now covered in Camp Logos. The Vol 1 and 2 manuals that are separate from the seminar are also updated in a timely fashion. They’re also now based on 4.0a.

David Kitchen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/66238#Comment_66238

Hello all,

My name is David and I actually helped with the manuals. Morris provided the content and I would help lay it out. I have been working with MP Seminars since the release of L3, so I can attest to some of the changes from the manual in L3 to L4. I can also attest to my office being my second home, 10 extra lbs. from fast food, and energy drinks being the drink of choice during the creation of the L4 training manuals [:)]

As most of you know, Logos Bible Software is very extensive. Our manuals also try to be very in-depth. Our L3 manual was a little over 100 pages in content. Our two training manuals combined are almost 300 pages. Our Syllabus for Camp Logos is now the same size as the whole L3 training manual. Volume 1 explains all of the main features in detail and Volume 2 picks up with more advanced training (such as the mentioned section on the Louw-Nida numbers).

Obviously our main goal was the actual content in the manual. There was a lot of content that had to be covered, but we still wanted to make improvements in the manual. Some improvements:

An index in the back of both manuals
Bold call out sections on the side that highlight keystrokes, definitions, or functions of features in L4
More pictures with detailed explanations

Also, like Moe said, all of our manuals are up-to-date. We work round-the-clock to make sure we are ready with updated manuals. We also want to make sure that customers who have already purchased the manuals receive all of the updates in PDF form.

As always, if anyone has any feedback based on the manuals, please feel free to e-mail me at david@mpseminars.com.

Thanks!

Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/66261#Comment_66261

David

Your post was very helpful. May I ask why these manuals cannot be available as a resource in L4? I can understand why it cannot be a pdf document. But is it possible that we can have the manuals available for purchase directly as a resource in L4?

Thanks

Mark

Valerie Pobog

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/65896#Comment_65896

I went to the MP Seminar in California 2 weeks ago and they have said they will send out addendums to the workbooks as the changes are made. I felt it was worth it to get in and learn the basics. I also have the workbooks but have not made my way through them both. I have learned alot from the user-videos as well. Thanks guys!

J. Morris

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/66331#Comment_66331

David

Your post was very helpful. May I ask why these manuals cannot be available as a resource in L4? I can understand why it cannot be a pdf document. But is it possible that we can have the manuals available for purchase directly as a resource in L4?

Thanks

Mark

Mark, your a genius! An AMAZING idea! If this were the case, I'd gladly purchace the manuals (even at an extra cost).

Doug Mertens

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/66736#Comment_66736

Mark, your a genius! An AMAZING idea! If this were the case, I'd gladly purchace the manuals (even at an extra cost).

Without a doubt, that would be my next purchase!

Seems kind of ironic to me that the books on how to get the most out of the L4 resources aren't available as an L4 resource.

Otto S. Carroll

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/66736#Comment_66736

...If this were the case, I'd gladly purchace the manuals (even at an extra cost).

Same here!

Ronald Quick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/66908#Comment_66908

I would also purchase them if they were a L4 resouce.

Paul Golder

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/66890#Comment_66890

Seems kind of ironic to me that the books on how to get the most out of the L4 resources aren't available as an L4 resource.

Logos has stated in the past, when asked to add a spell checker, that

"Logos has not wanted to build all the functions of a word processor, of which there are many good ones, into the Notes function."

So I'm just assuming that the response would be the same for the Manuals:

"Logos has not wanted to build all the functions of printed book, of which there are many good ones"

Just a guess [:D]

Chuck P.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/66917#Comment_66917

I don't understand being part of Logos or not....MP is part of Logos, he may have his own business, but he is tied to Logos...the following is on my homepage which Logos would not allow him saying unless they certified him: "Today's post is from Morris Proctor, certified and authorized trainer for Logos Bible Software. Morris has trained thousands of Logos users at his two-day Camp Logos training seminars.".

Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/66940#Comment_66940

Logos has stated in the past, when asked to add a spell checker, that

"Logos has not wanted to build all the functions of a word processor, of which there are many good ones, into the Notes function."

So I'm just assuming that the response would be the same for the Manuals:

"Logos has not wanted to build all the functions of printed book, of which there are many good ones"

Well, this probably would not be their response because spell checker is a function in a Word Processor. A manual is a resource, a book. Some resources in L4 are very strange. A manual would not be strange.

Paul Golder

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/66951#Comment_66951

Logos has stated in the past, when asked to add a spell checker, that

"Logos has not wanted to build all the functions of a word processor, of which there are many good ones, into the Notes function."

So I'm just assuming that the response would be the same for the Manuals:

"Logos has not wanted to build all the functions of printed book, of which there are many good ones"

Well, this probably would not be their response because spell checker is a function in a Word Processor. A manual is a resource, a book. Some resources in L4 are very strange. A manual would not be strange.

It was just my attempt at sarcastic humor. ( apparently a very poor attempt though )

Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/66956#Comment_66956

It was just my attempt at sarcastic humor. ( apparently a very poor attempt though )

My bad. Should have figured that out. Seriously, there must be a reason behind not offering the manuals as a resource. The only possible reason I could think of is financial, something to do with the seminars offered. It would be nice if someone could respond, and if no one responds, lets hope it is because there are behind the scenes discussions going on about offering the manuals as a resource.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/66980#Comment_66980

Seriously, there must be a reason behind not offering the manuals as a resource.

One possible reason would be the Catch-22 for users who don't know how to use the Logos Library to open resources yet. How can you read the manual to learn how to do that if you've got to know how to use the software to read the manual? Having it as a separate digital (PDF) file does make sense, though.

Logos is a company that was started by programmers and they've outsourced the writing of their user's guides from the very beginning. The early ones (for 1.6 and prior) were pretty lame, as I recall, as was the online help. It just wasn't a priority for them, nor perhaps something they were particularly good at writing. Then along came Morris Proctor with his great seminars, and manuals, and I guess that took the pressure of the Logos folks to do much of anything about tutorials or detailed manuals that shipped with the program. Just the minimal Help file and that was it.

I used to work for Microsoft and we had a whole User Education team for each product that was nearly as big as the development team. They did the print-based user's guides as well as the online Help and CBT (computer based training -- interactive tutorials kind of like what that other guy whose name I've forgotten -- former Logos employee -- sells, which someone was advertising here on the forum recently). It was a hard job for the UE folks, because we kept changing the UI out from under them just as soon as they'd understood it and documented it well. No doubt it was very frustrating for them to get the training materials perfected in time to ship with the product. Also, it was a big investment cost-wise having so many people working on those things, something that only a big company like Microsoft could afford. But even they have begun to skimp on manuals and CBT because there's such a huge aftermarket of Microsoft Support websites and training videos now (e.g., lynda.com, and the whole Microsoft MVP program -- which the Logos Forum MVP's seem to be kind of modeled after) that they can rely on. Logos has a committed user base that are willing to make these great videos and develop the wiki and staff this Forum for nothing, so what would be their motivation to do a better manual? If we all went on strike, then maybe they would... But we're hooked. And they know it! [;)]

Note: I'm not saying I wouldn't wish for a better manual from Logos. Of course I do. But I do sincerely understand why they don't do it.

Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/67228#Comment_67228

One possible reason would be the Catch-22 for users who don't know how to use the Logos Library to open resources yet. How can you read the manual to learn how to do that if you've got to know how to use the software to read the manual? Having it as a separate digital (PDF) file does make sense, though.

Well, I have no problem with manuals being offered in pdf format. But to offer it as a resource is possible despite your catch 22 thinking. The ones calling for a manual are users already of L4. So they would know how to access it. Secondly, a small one page pdf or documentation can be made available pointing new users to free video tutorials which will get them started. One video tutorial can even be named, "finding the resource manual in L4". Problem solved.

Russ Quinn

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/67383#Comment_67383

Are these manuals included in the price of a MP Seminar?

Gavin Robertson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/67228#Comment_67228

I understand why they don't produce a manual as well - its costly and time consuming - but they should produce something to help get people started with the basics. I'm feeling like a bit of a bonehead at the moment. I finally found some time to do some snooping around the wiki and found "Hints & Tips" which (among other things) showed me how to move from the home page back to my work area. This has been a huge frustration for me - I'd click on the home button and couldn't get back to where I was without going back to layouts and restarting my session. It never occured to me to press the home button again (maybe it should have). But that's the kind of thing I'm talking about. I don't need a 500 page manual (though I agree that to have a manual as a Logos 4 resource would be a great idea) but as a minimum, there should be a short-sheet containing commands, search syntax, shortcuts, keystrokes etc. needed to move around and use the software. Other software I have purchased provide this kind of resource! Powerful software isn't powerful if users don't know how to use it - a reference card (pdf or otherwise) with such basic information would be very helpful - and for me, would have alleviated a huge amount of frustration.