Would love to have a collections of all of his sermons, better yet his LifeWorks!
From Wikipedia: " His father, a former Southern Baptist pastor, foundedLakewood Church, of which Osteen is the current senior pastor, in the back of an old feed store.…John Osteen encouraged Joel to preach for many years, but he declined, preferring to work behind the scenes until January 17, 1999, when he accepted his father's suggestion and he preached his first sermon. John Osteen died six days later of a heart attack."
What took him so long?
John Osteen encouraged Joel to preach for many years, but he declined, preferring to work behind the scenes until January 17, 1999, when he accepted his father's suggestion and he preached his first sermon. John Osteen died six days later of a heart attack." What took him so long?
John Osteen encouraged Joel to preach for many years, but he declined, preferring to work behind the scenes until January 17, 1999, when he accepted his father's suggestion and he preached his first sermon. John Osteen died six days later of a heart attack."
Okay, George, since you teed this one up so nicely, I'll go ahead and take a swing at it.
Was it because he didn't want to give his dad heart failure??
John Osteen encouraged Joel to preach for many years, but he declined, preferring to work behind the scenes until January 17, 1999, when he accepted his father's suggestion and he preached his first sermon. John Osteen died six days later of a heart attack." What took him so long? Okay, George, since you teed this one up so nicely, I'll go ahead and take a swing at it. Was it because he didn't want to give his dad heart failure??
I think he means: what took his father so long to die after hearing Joel preach? ;-)
John Osteen encouraged Joel to preach for many years, but he declined, preferring to work behind the scenes until January 17, 1999, when he accepted his father's suggestion and he preached his first sermon. John Osteen died six days later of a heart attack." What took him so long? Okay, George, since you teed this one up so nicely, I'll go ahead and take a swing at it. Was it because he didn't want to give his dad heart failure?? I think he means: what took his father so long to die after hearing Joel preach? ;-)
You are being very generous calling what he does "preaching."
From Wikipedia: " His father, a former Southern Baptist pastor,
Must. Resist. Temptation. To. Ridicule.
Joel Osteen has a writing team that puts together his "messages."
I must say..........No I shouldn't
The OP made a legitimate request for resources he would like to see added to Logos. The comments that followed quickly went downhill and are outside of Logos guidelines as I understand them.
Grace be unto you.
We have been here before.
Nevertheless, should we call out those whom we feel pervert the Word of God? Or should we extend grace and let false teachings go unchallenged?
In accordance with Logos guidelines, this is not the place for such observations.
At least that is my understanding.
Should be super easy to do as I think there will be a very low number of links that need to be created.
We have been here before. Nevertheless, should we call out those whom we feel pervert the Word of God? Or should we extend grace and let false teachings go unchallenged?
In accordance with Logos guidelines, this is not the place for such observations. At least that is my understanding.
I think I read some other commands that supersede Logos rules. Now where was that???
Would love to have a collections of all of his sermons, better yet his LifeWorks! Should be super easy to do as I think there will be a very low number of links that need to be created.
Kent, you got a herd of horses already out of the Logos barn door. Better get after them. No slouching.
I think the suggestion is quite good. I'm curious what the draw is (keeping in mind the early church also had a significant draw and not a single Logos link).
Sure, If it can garner enough support to get out of Pre-Pub. I remember Mark Driscoll's sermons did not fare so well.
* I will not buy it *
While I agree with you about "everyone can be called out for perverting the Word of God by someone else here," yet when you have Calvinists, Arminians, Messianics, all agreeing together against Joel and when everyone from ANY solid conservative theological seminary would write off Joel's messages, that kind of puts it into a different category doesn't it? It's a little short of asking for Joseph Smith's speeches. Just my observation.
It's a little short of asking for Joseph Smith's speeches. Just my observation.
What is wrong with that?
Though I agree with all those above who think Joel Osteen's message is far from orthodox, I'll concede that there might be a reason for someone to want to look at his stuff in Logos, perhaps to poke holes in it and write a rebuttal. I don't think there's anyone taking him seriously enough to write a thoughtful rebuttal. (At least nobody weighty. There are a couple of fluff rebuttals of him on Amazon.com, but they are trumped by the popularity of his own writings when you search for books with Joel Osteen in the title.) People either naively eat up what he's saying and flock to his church/broadcasts, or they ignore him and/or ridicule him. But if we were living in the times of the early church, or in Calvin's time, someone would have definitely taken him on and written a refutation of his ideas. I personally hope Faithlife never sells his sermons, and I'm guessing they probably wouldn't. But the fact that nobody wanted Pelagius's works to be available when he was being called out as a heretic means that we can't study what he actually said now, except through the writings of those who refuted him. So perhaps Osteen's work should be allowed to be bought. Not that I'd put him anywhere near Pelagius in the orthodoxy of his theology.
You can download a PDF of 33 of them from here, convert it to Word, and turn it into a PB.
But warning if you go googling for more of them. There's malware out there on sites offering free Joel Osteen sermons. I got one that was caught and quarantined by my antivirus software, so I stopped searching for you.
BTW, when trying to find rebuttals of Osteen's ideas, I didn't find much at first, but I did find this website which applies quotes from Osteen to the poorest of the poor and shows the poverty of the quotes: http://thirdworldosteen.com/
I did finally find a serious theologian/writer who has taken Osteen on: Michael Horton. There's this article by him, and lots of mentions of Osteen (including a whole chapter on him) in Horton's Christless Christianity: The Alternative Gospel of the American Church which is available in Logos.
It's a little short of asking for Joseph Smith's speeches. Just my observation. What is wrong with that?
You can order a huge collection of writings by Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and other founding Mormons in Logos here (in CP). As you can see, it's not very popular. I'm guessing an Osteen collection wouldn't be very popular among Logos users either. The typical Osteen follower doesn't like to dig deep into Scripture, I would think, so why would such a person be a Logos user?
I'll buy Joel Osteen's sermon archive.. He's got plenty of illustrations. Sure, why not.
I know what I can learn and what I shouldn't take. (you can always learn a thing or two from someone, but you must have strong foundation first)
I hear you about those that Logos users who dig deep are unlikely to be devout followers of shallow feel good preaching. But I guess I'm just too traditional, I think Christian leaders (those who call the shots at logos) should be very careful about to whom we give platforms to spread their bread mixed with leaven, remembering that the best lies are not totally false, but a mixture, and it is that mixture which makes it so deadly. It's a principle thing for me, more than how many users end up using it. I'm not a Calvinist myself, but I'd so much rather people be listening to John MacArthur than Osteen. Best regards though.
You guys are so funny. You whack others for 'Christian discourse'.
And then on a platform that supports large commentaries that support questioning YHWH, various writers, thousands of doctrines, whether Jesus was for real, and competitive philosophies, you get excited over a guy down in Houston that repeats John the Baptist's teaching (what little we have) .... 'be good'.
It's not by accident Joseph Smith and Joel Osteen have much in common ... 'Christianity' is fixated on modern doctrinal battles .... not behavior.
My yesterday's reading (from the precious Logos platform) was a major well valued Logos author (maybe 100+ resources with his name associated) that replied to a questioner that he didn't view the NT as scripture, and it was centuries after the OT and thus had little value. I'm surprised no one is up in arms?
I'd value Joel for same value I used to spend hours and hours in the competition's stores ... I wanted to understand the customer.
But the fact that nobody wanted Pelagius's works to be available when he was being called out as a heretic means that we can't study what he actually said now, except through the writings of those who refuted him
I don't have a problem with Osteen's material being in the Logos format anymore than I have of Pelagius or Bart Ehrmans'. My point remains, I will call heresy heresy regardless of the etiquette that is called for in a forum.
I don't think there's anyone taking him seriously enough to write a thoughtful rebuttal. (At least nobody weighty.
Perhaps part of the reason that no one "weighty" writes a rebuttal is that Osteen isn't a very able opponent. He attended Oral Roberts in the field of radio and television BUT DID NOT GRADUATE. He also has no seminary training. Rebutting Osteen would be like rebutting a simple member of the congregation.
It's a little short of asking for Joseph Smith's speeches. Just my observation. What is wrong with that? You can order a huge collection of writings by Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and other founding Mormons in Logos here (in CP). As you can see, it's not very popular. I'm guessing an Osteen collection wouldn't be very popular among Logos users either. The typical Osteen follower doesn't like to dig deep into Scripture, I would think, so why would such a person be a Logos user?
I suspect most Logos users are more likely to get a question from a brother or sister about something that they've heard Joel say than they are about something Joseph Smith or Brigham Young wrote.
You guys are so funny. You whack others for 'Christian discourse'. And then on a platform that supports large commentaries that support questioning YHWH, various writers, thousands of doctrines, whether Jesus was for real, and competitive philosophies, you get excited over a guy down in Houston that repeats John the Baptist's teaching (what little we have) .... 'be good'. It's not by accident Joseph Smith and Joel Osteen have much in common ... 'Christianity' is fixated on modern doctrinal battles .... not behavior. My yesterday's reading (from the precious Logos platform) was a major well valued Logos author (maybe 100+ resources with his name associated) that replied to a questioner that he didn't view the NT as scripture, and it was centuries after the OT and thus had little value. I'm surprised no one is up in arms? I'd value Joel for same value I used to spend hours and hours in the competition's stores ... I wanted to understand the customer.
JB's message wasn't "be good" but REPENT !
Gee, George. Teaching and message are two different issues. Granted, the writer of Luke may not have been taking up the sun in the African rift, during one of JB's sermons.
Plus 'repent of what'? That's something I've never seen much discussion of, since JB's disciple didn't come to save the righteous nor eliminate the Law. Nor have I seen much discussion of the thousands of saved prior to JB's disciple's death, and even more thousands before Saul's clothes-holding exercise. The Houston-wonder-boy probably has a closer reading, than the well educated seminarians. (Not supporting the Houston-wonder-boy, mind you; just always impressed by the evangelicals' emotions).
Gee, George. Teaching and message are two different issues. Granted, the writer of Luke may not have been taking up the sun in the African rift, during one of JB's sermons. Plus 'repent of what'? That's something I've never seen much discussion of, since JB's disciple didn't come to save the righteous nor eliminate the Law. Nor have I seen much discussion of the thousands of saved prior to JB's disciple's death, and even more thousands before Saul's clothes-holding exercise. The Houston-wonder-boy probably has a closer reading, than the well educated seminarians. (Not supporting the Houston-wonder-boy, mind you; just always impressed by the evangelicals' emotions).
Don't lump me in with the evangelicals. I'm a conservative, not an evangelical.
George, you're not 'lump-able'. Conservative, definitely. My apologies, if it seemed like I implied evangelicals were conservative.
John's message was a necessary one, but not a sufficient one. John confessed that he was not the Christ (John 1:19-28) and he was not preaching the entire gospel, but preparing the way for the Jesus. Apollos' teaching of John's baptism was incomplete (Acts 18:24-28) and those baptized into John needed to be baptized into Jesus (Acts 19:1-5). True gospel faith will reflect a life of repentance (Rom 6:1-4), but salvation never comes by our good works (Eph 2:8-10). That's how JB fits in--he was pointing to Christ and preparing the world for the gospel, but was not Christ himself.
In addition to all the things that have been said, I am not sure that the Osteens really teach repentance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00-6OyXVA0M
Okay, now I have a post on this thread so I can easily see updates. [:)]
Okay, now I have a post on this thread so I can easily see updates.
You actually want to receive updates? [:P]
Okay, now I have a post on this thread so I can easily see updates. You actually want to receive updates?
You actually want to receive updates?
I cut the cord and can't stand the Faithlife website where this type of discourse among Christians is supposed to be happening. This is the next best place to be using up my popped corn. [;)]
This is the next best place to be using up my popped corn.
That is a novel idea -- watching Joel Osteen while eating popped corn.
Sounds more like a choking hazard to me [:P]
My first attempt at actually sitting and listening to an Osteen sermon resulted in 15 minutes of strangled screams; I called it quits and never went back.
I am strangely reminded of this video . . .
[View:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhn_6xj8QZI:550:0]
abondservant, I guess I'd be reluctant to use a lower-case 'g' on a theology that to a large degree is the OT, with Peter's quote of Joel at Pentecost.
Now you probably think I'm defending Mr Osteen. Not.
My only point is that Logosians seem far more comfortable with resources that question God (upper-case 'g'), the writings, etc, than they are with an individual down in Houston with a comparatively small church (compared to Houston, compared to any of the denominations). My guess is the emotionalism of doctinal 'apostasy'. Ditto with Bart.
And regarding sheeps clothing, I'd view the Logos platform direction with far more concern than Mr Osteen. (Recognizing I agree with the Logos' direction; I'm just surprised the evangelicals are so comfortable).
Plus we have to keep William happy with his popcorn.
abondservant, I guess I'd be reluctant to use a lower-case 'g' on a theology that to a large degree is the OT, with Peter's quote of Joel at Pentecost. Now you probably think I'm defending Mr Osteen. Not. My only point is that Logosians seem far more comfortable with resources that question God (upper-case 'g'), the writings, etc, than they are with an individual down in Houston with a comparatively small church (compared to Houston, compared to any of the denominations). My guess is the emotionalism of doctinal 'apostasy'. Ditto with Bart. And regarding sheeps clothing, I'd view the Logos platform direction with far more concern than Mr Osteen. (Recognizing I agree with the Logos' direction; I'm just surprised the evangelicals are so comfortable). Plus we have to keep William happy with his popcorn.
Getting ready to pop some myself.
an individual down in Houston with a comparatively small church
He is the pastor of the largest congregation in the U.S. -- 43,000 members. Plus millions who watch him on TV.
"One of the most influential and recognized pastors in America" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWF5IUvXgZc
The word "evangelical" encompasses a broad spectrum. While plenty are fine with the broadening of Logos's catalog, some aren't and have griped about it, and probably many who aren't keep their mouths shut or have abandoned Logos because of it.
The Houston-wonder-boy probably has a closer reading, than the well educated seminarians.
I seriously doubt this.
http://www.freerepublic.com/
"According to Joel Osteen – Pastor of Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas, these first century apostles are wrong and outdated and he has come out boldly to infer indirectly that Apostles Paul, Peter, and John whom wrote much of the New Testament were wrong and need to be corrected and rebuked."
Please remember the Logos forums are for the discussion of Logos resources, and products. It is NOT for discussing the relevancy, quality, orthodoxy , theological relevancy of anyone or anything. Please leave those discussions in http://christiandiscourse.com
Thanks!
Guessing this thread will likely have a "Bram Stokers Dracula" level backlash.
How did you ever know?
Guessing this thread will likely have a "Bram Stokers Dracula" level backlash. How did you ever know?
Good one, abondservant!
I am strangely reminded of this video . . . [View:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhn_6xj8QZI:550:0]
Thanks, you made my day!
God bless Mr. Osteen with wisdom and Biblically centered, right-minded, Holy-Spirit corrected, Truth.
MUST. KEEP. BITING. END. OF. TONGUE. [:(]
