Better Hebrew searches

Hebrew "words" can include prefixed and suffixed lexemes. Currently, these lexemes must be searched separately. I would like to suggest allowing for searches that include the main lexeme and all possible combinations of prefixed and suffixed lexemes.

Example: Morphological search: All "words" that are nouns masc. sing. (@NMS?), with the prefixes (conjunction ו + preposition ב) and the suffix (2ms pronominal suffix) in one "word."

If doing such a search is already available, it probably involves a very complicated search expression. Please, simplify it. If it is not available, please, make it possible.

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MJ. Smith

Does searching by root come closer to what you want than searching by lemma?

Tarsee Li

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/681720#Comment_681720

No. Hebrew searches in Logos are set up to search for specific lemmas or roots only. But Hebrew "words" are often composed of several lemmas. Therefore, Logos should let us search for the "words" including their component lemmas. Just try doing the search I suggested above, and see if it's possible.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/682171#Comment_682171

Excuse me for being dense - I don't read Hebrew but I'm reasonably familiar with linguistics. What do you want that differs from this?

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

Example: Morphological search: All "words" that are nouns masc. sing. (@NMS?), with the prefixes (conjunction ו + preposition ב) and the suffix (2ms pronominal suffix) in one "word."

Welcome [:D]

Does such a word exist in the Hebrew Bible ?

If doing such a search is already available, it probably involves a very complicated search expression.

BEFORE 0 WORD can be used to connect lemmas and/or morph codes for searching.

@C BEFORE 0 WORD lemma:בְּ@P BEFORE 0 WORD @N?MS

finds 9 results in the Lexham Hebrew Bible that have conjunction ו + preposition ב prefixes in one word:

@C BEFORE 0 WORD lemma:בְּ@P BEFORE 0 WORD @N?MS BEFORE 0 WORD @RS

found one Hebrew word with a pronoun suffix in 2 Samuel 1:23

Keep Smiling [:)]

Lee

Welcome to the Forums, Tarsee.

Example: Morphological search: All "words" that are nouns masc. sing. (@NMS?), with the prefixes (conjunction ו + preposition ב) and the suffix (2ms pronominal suffix) in one "word."

Do you mean to include words marked as "common" gender, but considered by some to be masculine, i.e. something like וּבִֽלְבָבְךָ (Deut. 30:14) or וּבִדְבָרְיךָ qere וּבִדְבָרְךָ (1 Kings 18:36)? I too would be interested to know how this search works in Logos.

You may find this interesting:

Joüon, P., & Muraoka, T. (2006). A grammar of biblical Hebrew. §134a.">
Noun gender presents multiple difficulties. The biblical texts allow us to determine the gender of only about half of the nouns. The gender of several nouns varies for various reasons. It is the task of lexicographers to indicate them.

David Roberts

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/682318#Comment_682318

Hi, I'd really like to be able to use the find feature to search for vowel and consonant combinations, but Logos ignores the vowels when I type them into find. It's incredibly frustrating.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/682318#Comment_682318

Do you mean to include words marked as "common" gender, but considered by some to be masculine, i.e. something like וּבִֽלְבָבְךָ (Deut. 30:14) or וּבִדְבָרְיךָ qere וּבִדְבָרְךָ (1 Kings 18:36)? I too would be interested to know how this search works in Logos.

Morph Search using Logos Hebrew Morphology:

@C BEFORE 0 WORD lemma:בְּ@P BEFORE 0 WORD @NC-SC BEFORE 0 WORD @RS2MS

@C BEFORE 0 WORD lemma:בְּ@P BEFORE 0 WORD @NC?SC BEFORE 0 WORD @RS2MS

Morphological tag NC-SC uses a dash for Noun Gender. The Lexham Hebrew Bible has inline interlinear option to show Kethiv Reading, Qere Reading, and/or Kethiv-Qere Hybrid Form.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/682382#Comment_682382

Hi, I'd really like to be able to use the find feature to search for vowel and consonant combinations, but Logos ignores the vowels when I type them into find. It's incredibly frustrating.

Thread => Still no Search with Hebrew Vowel Pointing?? includes:

Logos 5.2 Beta 1 has search modifiers => http://wiki.logos.com/Search_Matching_Commands

Keep Smiling [:)]

Lee

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/682436#Comment_682436

Do you mean to include words marked as "common" gender, but considered by some to be masculine, i.e. something like וּבִֽלְבָבְךָ (Deut. 30:14) or וּבִדְבָרְיךָ qere וּבִדְבָרְךָ (1 Kings 18:36)? I too would be interested to know how this search works in Logos.

Morph Search using Logos Hebrew Morphology:

@C BEFORE 0 WORD lemma:בְּ@P BEFORE 0 WORD @NC-SC BEFORE 0 WORD @RS2MS

or

@C BEFORE 0 WORD lemma:בְּ@P BEFORE 0 WORD @NC?SC BEFORE 0 WORD @RS2MS

Thanks. Just to point out that this search would be necessarily over-inclusive. Tarsee would have to do some manual filtering of the noun gender.

Tarsee Li

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/682223#Comment_682223

No, you are not dense. Thanks for trying, but no, that search does not do it.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/682445#Comment_682445

Do you mean to include words marked as "common" gender, but considered by some to be masculine, i.e. something like וּבִֽלְבָבְךָ (Deut. 30:14) or וּבִדְבָרְיךָ qere וּבִדְבָרְךָ (1 Kings 18:36)? I too would be interested to know how this search works in Logos.

Morph Search using Logos Hebrew Morphology:

@C BEFORE 0 WORD lemma:בְּ@P BEFORE 0 WORD @NC-SC BEFORE 0 WORD @RS2MS

or

@C BEFORE 0 WORD lemma:בְּ@P BEFORE 0 WORD @NC?SC BEFORE 0 WORD @RS2MS

Thanks. Just to point out that this search would be necessarily over-inclusive. Tarsee would have to do some manual filtering of the noun gender.

Learned Morph search @NC-SC matches fewer Nouns than @NC?SC (since ? can match any gender specification, including feminine):

Deuteronomy 7:14 has a Feminine common Noun with a Masculine suffix.

Lexham Hebrew Bible does not specify noun gender for וּבְדִבְרֵיךָ in 1 Kings 18:36 while having tags for plural and singular

Deuteronomy 30:14 has וּבִֽלְבָבְךָ Common Noun with singular tagging while gender is not specified:

Morph search using Logos Hebrew Morphology

@C BEFORE 0 WORD lemma:בְּ@P BEFORE 0 WORD @N?MS BEFORE 0 WORD @RS2MS

does not find any results in the Lexham Hebrew Bible because Noun specification includes Masculine.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Tarsee Li

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/682294#Comment_682294

Thanks. The results look like the type of search I was wanting to do. However, I can't get it to work in my computer. Do you have to have a specific Hebrew text?

Tarsee Li

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/682469#Comment_682469

Thanks, Lee. I wasn't trying to find a specific kind of noun. I was more interested in the syntax. The example I gave was just an example. Your answer is helpful. It's exactly the kind of search I need to do. However, I can't get it to work in my computer. I'm trying it with LHB. Do I have to have Logos 6?

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

If doing such a search is already available, it probably involves a very complicated search expression. Please, simplify it.

"BEFORE 0 WORD" is the complicated morph search connector. An alias that is easier to type would be appreciated.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Tarsee Li

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/682469#Comment_682469

Lee, I finally got it to work. Here is one search I did: @C BEFORE 0 WORD lemma:בְּ@P BEFORE 0 WORD @NCFS. However, I get three results for each hit (one for the C, one for the P, and one for the N). I consider this to be "one" word, not three (albeit with three lexemes). I guess we are just "tricking" the program by asking for three words with 0 spaces between them [:)]. Similarly, @C BEFORE 0 WORD lemma:בְּ@P BEFORE 0 WORD @NCMS BEFORE 0 WORD @RS gives me four hits for the only instance in the Bible, but it's all the same word.

Well, I can live with the multiple hits (though it would be less work for me if the program would recognize the category "word" to include not only multiple morphemes but also multiple lexemes).

Anyway, you have been a great help. I hope this thread will be useful to others as well. Thanks again, everyone!

Tarsee Li

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/682478#Comment_682478

Sorry, I called you "Lee." You are "Keep Smiling 4 Jesus." Apologies for the mistake. Blessings.

Lee

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/682487#Comment_682487

Tarsee:

1. By clicking on the "More" button on the top right of your posts, you can Edit posts. You only lose that functionality after a few hours of posting.

2. Within 5 minutes of posting, one more function is available: Delete post.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/682486#Comment_682486

Here is one search I did: @C BEFORE 0 WORD lemma:בְּ@P BEFORE 0 WORD @NCFS. However, I get three results for each hit (one for the C, one for the P, and one for the N). I consider this to be "one" word, not three (albeit with three lexemes). I guess we are just "tricking" the program by asking for three words with 0 spaces between them . Similarly, @C BEFORE 0 WORD lemma:בְּ@P BEFORE 0 WORD @NCMS BEFORE 0 WORD @RS gives me four hits for the only instance in the Bible, but it's all the same word.

Concur Morph Search result count includes combination of lexemes and morph codes, but lacks number of words found. For example, Lexham Hebrew Bible has 102 results in 24 verses for 25 highlighted words, which is a bit more than 4 results per word. Morph Search Analysis can be used to group lexemes.

Morph Search syntax varies with different Hebrew morphologies plus can have different results due to tagging differences.

Logos Hebrew Morphology:

@C BEFORE 0 WORD lemma:בְּ@P BEFORE 0 WORD @NC-SC BEFORE 0 WORD @RS2MS

Werkgroep Informatica (WIVU) Hebrew Morphology (is identical to Logos Hebrew Morphology for this search):

@C BEFORE 0 WORD lemma:בְּ@P BEFORE 0 WORD @NC-SC BEFORE 0 WORD @RS2MS

Andersen-Forbes Hebrew Morphology (has different lemma and Morph codes)

@C BEFORE 0 WORD lemma:ב@P BEFORE 0 WORD @NCcSMS BEFORE 0 WORD @RBSM2

Westminster Hebrew Morphology has pronominal suffix for Nouns (along with different Morph codes)

@Pc BEFORE 0 WORD lemma:בְּ@Pp BEFORE 0 WORD @ncmsc+S2ms

Dreaming of an alias for "BEFORE 0 WORD" (or "BEFORE 0 WORDS") that would be quicker to type for all Morphologies when searching for more than one lexeme in a word.

Keep Smiling [:)]

David Roberts

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/682439#Comment_682439

Hi, I'd really like to be able to use the find feature to search for vowel and consonant combinations, but Logos ignores the vowels when I type them into find. It's incredibly frustrating.

Thread => Still no Search with Hebrew Vowel Pointing?? includes:

Logos 5.2 Beta 1 has search modifiers => http://wiki.logos.com/Search_Matching_Commands

Keep Smiling

Thanks for that!