Second Aorist Passive Indicative Search

I was trying to perform a Morph search to find all of the 1st and 2nd Aorist passives in the New Testament. But the two are different. So I want to search for just 2nd Aorist Pasives and there seems to be no way to accomplish that. I know Logos had Gramcord but I do not know what happened to it. So how can I find just the 2nd Aorist passives or just the 1st Aorist without them being combined into a simple aorist and grouped together as one?

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Rick Brannan (Logos)

At present, the Logos Greek Morphology does not support different classes of morphological criteria (e.g. 1st Aorist, 2nd Aorist); only the criteria itself.

If we ever go down the road of providing derivational morphology in some manner, then this sort of detail would be included. But we have no active projects in this area.

Stephen Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/691027#Comment_691027

My hope is that they would at some point in the near future. We should be able to look up every nuance of Greek by this point. I am a bit surprised that Logos does not have that capability. I believe Gramcord was able to perform that but for some strange reason, it has disappeared from the options to choose from.

Rick Brannan (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/691100#Comment_691100

I believe Gramcord was able to perform that

The version of morphology that GRAMCORD supplied to Logos (years and years ago) did not have such distinctions in verb data or in noun declensions.

Stephen Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/691112#Comment_691112

Yeah, I wasn't sure about the Logos version of it, but I had the original Gramcord and it was very particular. You could look up hundreds of things. I can't say for sure an adjectival intensive in the predicate position, but I don't understand why that should be an issue by now with all the technology out there. But you are probably right. At least I know there are limitations to Logos morphology and have to work around them. I assume that also means a second future passive is out of the question too, and liquid futures, or anything that splits a verb for, like a pluperfect?

Rick Brannan (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/691138#Comment_691138

I assume that also means a second future passive is out of the question too, and liquid futures, or anything that splits a verb for, like a pluperfect?

You've perfectly illustrated the problem. It isn't just first/second aorist, there are other first/second sorts of things with both nouns and verbs. Also stems, and rules for how letters combine, and ... well, you get the point.

That's why I mentioned derivational morphology. If we can break all words into their requisite parts and specify rules/labels for those parts, the reasons they're breaking, and what contribution they make to the overall morphology of the word, then we're basically there. We solve the whole problem. But it is a large problem. There are huge irregularities in any language (well, maybe not Esperanto), including Greek, which make developing a parser to break words down in this manner the easier part of the task. I say 'easy' because it conceivably solves, say, 50-70% of the problems. We just don't know which 50-70% without reviewing and correcting them all.

This is a great request, and something we are interested in. I've looked into it and talked with other folks about it over the years. It is just a large, complex task. I think it will happen some day, but that "some day" is not in the immediate or short-term future, and we have no active projects in this area at present.

Jeff Uriarte

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/691343#Comment_691343

Hi. Any update on this one?

Tony Dawson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1183362#Comment_1183362

This seemed tricky but succumbed to a brute force attack. I hope the approach might help others, even though the original post is several years old.

I took the list of 2nd aorists from Mounce's Morphology of Biblical Greek §44.5.

Then chained them with Excel VBA, and did a morph search using INTERSECTS to find all the 2nd aorists. The analysis view shows this seems to be accurate.

One could use eg. @VAMS1P to find more specific morphs.

@VA INTERSECTS (lemma:ἄγω, lemma:αἱρέω, lemma:αἰσθάνομαι, lemma:ἅλλομαι, lemma:ἁμαρτάνω, lemma:ἀναθάλλω, lemma:ἀνακράζω, lemma:ἀποθνῄσκω, lemma:ἀπόλλυμι, lemma:βάλλω, lemma:γίνομαι, lemma:ἔρχομαι, lemma:ἐσθίω, lemma:εὑρίσκω, lemma:ἔχω, lemma:θιγγάνω, lemma:ἱκνέομαι, lemma:κάμνω, lemma:λαγχάνω, lemma:λαμβάνω, lemma:λανθάνω, lemma:λέγω, lemma:λείπω, lemma:μανθάνω, lemma:ὁράω, lemma:ὀφείλω, lemma:πάσχω, lemma:περιτέμνω, lemma:πέτομαι, lemma:πίνω, lemma:πίπτω, lemma:πυνθάνομαι, lemma:τέμνω, lemma:τίκτω, lemma:τρέχω, lemma:τυγχάνω, lemma:φεύγω)

Tony Dawson

UPDATED TO FIND VERBS USING MORE THAN ONE ROOT

I also wanted to solve this problem. It seemed tricky but succumbed to a brute force attack. I hope the approach might help others, even though the original post is several years old.

I took the list of 2nd aorists from Mounce's Morphology of Biblical Greek §44.5.

UPDATE: Added the aorist forms of the list of 9 suppletive verbs using more than one root from Mounce Class v-8. Probably only εἶδον and εἶπον are needed as Logos categorises them as separate lemmas following BDAG, but it doesn't hurt to include the rest.

ἔδραμον, εἶδον, εἱλόμην, εἶπον, ἔπαθον, ἔφαγον, ᾔδειν, ἦλθον, ἤνεγκα, ὠψάμην

This give 3074 hits rather than 1780, showing just how often εἶδον and εἶπον are used.

Then I chained them with Excel VBA, and did a morph search using INTERSECTS to find all the 2nd aorists. The analysis view shows this seems to be accurate.

One could use eg. @VAP to find all 2nd aorist passives (which was the original question), or @VAPS1P to find more specific morphs.