Retiring the Windows Store apps

Bradley Grainger (Logos)
Bradley Grainger (Logos) Administrator, Logos Employee Posts: 11,958
edited November 21 in English Forum

We are removing the Bible! and Vyrso apps from the Windows Store. We’ve heard your feedback (both on the forums and in Store ratings) that they lack the level of quality and features you expect (and that we want to deliver).

More importantly, the apps don’t currently function as simple readers because they are unable to open many of the latest resources (but instead display a blank screen).

When evaluating the cost of fixing these problems, we decided that it would be better to focus on improving touch support in Logos 6. Several of our developers own a Surface Pro 3 (and use it regularly at church) so we understand the problems with using Logos 6 on a tablet.

We don’t have any announcements about touch improvements in Logos 6 yet; when we do, we’ll post them in this forum.

P.S. Here’s what removing an app from the Windows Store means, according to Microsoft:

  • People who don’t have your app can’t download it, or even find its listing in the Store. (If they follow a direct link to your app, such as from a website, they'll see the listing for your app, but they won't be able to get it.)

  • People who have already installed your app can still use it or even reinstall it. However, they won't be able to make in-app purchases.

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Comments

  • Rosie Perera
    Rosie Perera Member Posts: 26,202 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Good move. I've never tried the Windows Store apps, but with all the conversation recently about Faithlife needing to be more focused on quality, I think this makes good business sense and will result in happier users overall, even if a few will be disappointed.

  • Bill Anderson
    Bill Anderson Member Posts: 603 ✭✭

    I'm glad to hear Faithlife is moving towards improving touch on Logos 6, even if there are no timelines to share just yet.

    Bradley, if you need a guinea pig -- beta tester -- I own a Surface Pro 3.

  • Bohuslav Wojnar
    Bohuslav Wojnar Member Posts: 3,466

    Is there any chance we will see an universal application on Windows 10 though? It is not so much for tablets use, although there is a need of a simple reader for them too. But the most important lack we have so far is smartphones (Lumias etc.) Providing an application for them would also be available as a simple reader on all windows devices.
    Your information might be quite important one for those who are buying new phones as they anticipate universal apps on Windows 10 platform.

    Bohuslav

  • Mark Barnes
    Mark Barnes Member Posts: 15,432 ✭✭✭

    When evaluating the cost of fixing these problems, we decided that it would be better to focus on improving touch support in Logos 6. Several of our developers own a Surface Pro 3 (and use it regularly at church) so we understand the problems with using Logos 6 on a tablet.

    I'm glad to hear this. I don't own a Windows-based touch device yet, but it will be my next hardware purchase.

    This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!

  • Joseph Turner
    Joseph Turner Member Posts: 2,853 ✭✭✭

    I own a Surface Pro and I am very excited about this news!

    Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

  • Bradley Grainger (Logos)
    Bradley Grainger (Logos) Administrator, Logos Employee Posts: 11,958

    Is there any chance we will see an universal application on Windows 10 though?

    It's definitely a possibility, but we're not currently developing it.

  • Rob Kuefner
    Rob Kuefner Member Posts: 160

    I was fortunate to have my device as an upgrade device this year in our budget and went with a Surface Pro 3. It runs Logos incredibly well, and I am glad to hear Logos is looking at improving the touch features. Since the Surface Pro 3 has a stylus, I can do quite a bit with it, but if Logos would eventually be able to add true inking capabilities that would be awesome! Biggest difference... the SSD makes all the difference in the world on Logos capabilities. If you don't have a solid state drive in your computer, that alone will make the biggest difference in how Logos runs!

  • Matthew C Jones
    Matthew C Jones Member Posts: 10,295

    We are removing the Bible! and Vyrso apps from the Windows Store. We’ve heard your feedback (both on the forums and in Store ratings) that they lack the level of quality and features you expect (and that we want to deliver)

    Although I hate to see them go, I think it is the right decision.  What will become of the Noet app?

    Logos 7 Collectors Edition

  • Bradley Grainger (Logos)
    Bradley Grainger (Logos) Administrator, Logos Employee Posts: 11,958

    What will become of the Noet app?

    I'm not aware of a Noet app in the Windows Store. Do you have a link?

  • Matthew C Jones
    Matthew C Jones Member Posts: 10,295

    What will become of the Noet app?

    I'm not aware of a Noet app in the Windows Store. Do you have a link?

    Apparently there is none. [:$] I saw "mobile app" on the Noet home page and thought it was referring to a Widows app. Since I read my Noet books in Logos 6 desktop I have never clicked on "mobile apps."

    Logos 7 Collectors Edition

  • Brian Crawford
    Brian Crawford Member Posts: 49

    This is the right move. If I was still running Windows RT, this would be painful, but thankfully that OS is dead. It would still be painful to not have a touch app on my 8" Windows 8.1 tablet, if I had not discovered TouchMousePointer. With that fantastic virtual mouse pointer, I run full desktop Logos 6 with zero input issues on my little tablet. It would be even better on all of your Surface Pro 3's. Consequently, I find myself totally uninterested in Logos 6 touch support. Why is a virtual mouse pointer not built into Windows 8/10?

  • Kevin A. Purcell
    Kevin A. Purcell Member Posts: 3,405 ✭✭✭

    While I agree the Windows Store app was not up to snuff, the problem with this strategy is that some people own both a 32GB Windows 8 device and an extremely large library. For example, I own an HP Stream 13 that has only about 8GB of free space after the OS and recovery partition that CANNOT be removed. Installing my entire Logos library on this device leaves me about 2GB short. Installing to the micro-SD card is not an option because Logos will not run.

    The solution is that you need to find a way to install to an SD card without needing the indexing because that's what makes it unusable. I tried twice and it took 3+ days to index and never got past about 75% before it just hangs and stops. Indexing is too drive intensive for an external SD card.

    Currently Biblia and Bible.Faithlife.com are not up to snuff either. Plus, Windows 10 means there will be people running Windows Phone and Windows tablets and computers all on the same thing.

    That's a long way of saying, you need more than just better touch support in Logos Desktop App. You need to allow people to download only a portion of their library too!

    Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
    Brushy Mountain Baptist Association

    www.kevinpurcell.org

  • Bohuslav Wojnar
    Bohuslav Wojnar Member Posts: 3,466

    While I agree the Windows Store app was not up to snuff, the problem with this strategy is that some people own both a 32GB Windows 8 device and an extremely large library. For example, I own an HP Stream 13 that has only about 8GB of free space after the OS and recovery partition that CANNOT be removed. Installing my entire Logos library on this device leaves me about 2GB short. Installing to the micro-SD card is not an option because Logos will not run.

    The solution is that you need to find a way to install to an SD card without needing the indexing because that's what makes it unusable. I tried twice and it took 3+ days to index and never got past about 75% before it just hangs and stops. Indexing is too drive intensive for an external SD card.

    Currently Biblia and Bible.Faithlife.com are not up to snuff either. Plus, Windows 10 means there will be people running Windows Phone and Windows tablets and computers all on the same thing.

    That's a long way of saying, you need more than just better touch support in Logos Desktop App. You need to allow people to download only a portion of their library too!

    Yes! [Y]

    Bohuslav

  • George Somsel
    George Somsel Member Posts: 10,153 ✭✭✭

    That's a long way of saying, you need more than just better touch support in Logos Desktop App. You need to allow people to download only a portion of their library too!

    There are certain books that I might wish to download only a portion of.  [;)]

    george
    gfsomsel

    יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

  • Erwin
    Erwin Member Posts: 62 ✭✭

    While I agree the Windows Store app was not up to snuff, the problem with this strategy is that some people own both a 32GB Windows 8 device and an extremely large library. For example, I own an HP Stream 13 that has only about 8GB of free space after the OS and recovery partition that CANNOT be removed. Installing my entire Logos library on this device leaves me about 2GB short. Installing to the micro-SD card is not an option because Logos will not run.

    The solution is that you need to find a way to install to an SD card without needing the indexing because that's what makes it unusable. I tried twice and it took 3+ days to index and never got past about 75% before it just hangs and stops. Indexing is too drive intensive for an external SD card.

    Currently Biblia and Bible.Faithlife.com are not up to snuff either. Plus, Windows 10 means there will be people running Windows Phone and Windows tablets and computers all on the same thing.

    That's a long way of saying, you need more than just better touch support in Logos Desktop App. You need to allow people to download only a portion of their library too!

    Yes! Yes

    I strongly agree [Y][Y]

  • Mike  Aubrey
    Mike Aubrey Member Posts: 447 ✭✭

    When evaluating the cost of fixing these problems, we decided that it would be better to focus on improving touch support in Logos 6. Several of our developers own a Surface Pro 3 (and use it regularly at church) so we understand the problems with using Logos 6 on a tablet.

    Thanks Bradley. This is an encouraging move. I appreciate it.

    My only concern about this approach is it's effect on battery life. Even with improved touch support, the battery drain of the full Logos 6 compared to a small and nimble app is noticeably different. But I'm sure that's a surmountable challenge.

  • JoshInRI
    JoshInRI Member Posts: 1,940

    Go for it dudes (and any ladies working with you)!!!!

  • SteveHD
    SteveHD Member Posts: 535 ✭✭

    I hope to see a feature added. There is a blog post about how to download specific items on your Logos App for Apple. I have the iPhone and it is nice to be able to only download what I need when disconnected. Can this same thing be added to the standard Windows Logos 6?

    I have a Tablet with window 8.1 and as far as I can tell it will always try to download everything. Since I do not have enough storage I have to hide resources to keep the size down. I would much rather be able to have the option to search for resource and select download all to get what I want stored locally and leave the rest in the cloud, available when I am on Wifi.

    For reference the post I am talking about is Take Your Logos-Edition Books Everywhere https://blog.logos.com/2015/02/take-your-logos-edition-books-everywhere/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+LogosBibleSoftwareBlog+%28Logos+Bible+Software+Blog%29

    If this is already an option please let me know. Thanks

  • Graham Criddle
    Graham Criddle MVP Posts: 32,469

    If this is already an option please let me know.

    In the full Logos environment (Windows / Mac) you can't currently just download a subset of your resources. 

  • I hope to see a feature added. There is a blog post about how to download specific items on your Logos App for Apple. I have the iPhone and it is nice to be able to only download what I need when disconnected. Can this same thing be added to the standard Windows Logos 6?

    I have a Tablet with window 8.1 and as far as I can tell it will always try to download everything. Since I do not have enough storage I have to hide resources to keep the size down. I would much rather be able to have the option to search for resource and select download all to get what I want stored locally and leave the rest in the cloud, available when I am on Wifi.

    For reference the post I am talking about is Take Your Logos-Edition Books Everywhere https://blog.logos.com/2015/02/take-your-logos-edition-books-everywhere/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+LogosBibleSoftwareBlog+%28Logos+Bible+Software+Blog%29

    If this is already an option please let me know. Thanks

    [Y]

    Agreed; this would be a good option, as the library for many of us is beyond the capabilities of the HD of many windows tablets.

  • Dan Francis
    Dan Francis Member Posts: 5,335 ✭✭✭

    In the full Logos environment (Windows / Mac) you can't currently just download a subset of your resources. 

    This item is a major hurdle to doing a possible universal program, also the indexing of the main program might be an annoying thing on a phone or low end tablet. Also I am not sure if Logos would be compatible with the Universal program, if it is compiled in the proper language are all extra kits used in the creation available on the mobile platforms. I am not a program just trying to pint out out it maybe far easier said than done.

    -Dan

  • Bradley Grainger (Logos)
    Bradley Grainger (Logos) Administrator, Logos Employee Posts: 11,958

    I have the iPhone and it is nice to be able to only download what I need when disconnected. Can this same thing be added to the standard Windows Logos 6?

    See https://community.logos.com/forums/t/100284.aspx 

  • Please don't make the Logos 6 program more touch friendly. I use the Surface Pro 3, but Logos is a large program meant for desktop and laptop work. I also have an RT and Windows Phone 8.1. Mac doesn't have touch capabilities, and android/iPad already have awesome apps. Your market for Logos 6 is basically touch windows devices, many of which will be incapable of running such a large and heavy RAM consumption program.. But, if you made a universal Windows 10 app you would satisfy those Windows users, making all the smaller and less powerful windows tablets happy, while not making changes for desktop and laptop users. Please consider a great app versus changing the engine of a powerhouse program.

  • JoshInRI
    JoshInRI Member Posts: 1,940

    I own the original Surface Pro using 8.1 and hope one day to upgrade for free to Windows 10 when it is stabile and offered.

    I would be glad to help test your rollout.

  • Bart Sipes
    Bart Sipes Member Posts: 1

    I sincerely hope you will resubmit higher quality universal apps in the future. I'm not sure how you have built out your iOS and Android apps but if you design them right you could share code between then and a universal Windows app using C++ or .NET code with tooling from Xamarin which I have personally worked with. I know this takes time and effort, but I really hope you will consider doing this soon.

  • Bohuslav Wojnar
    Bohuslav Wojnar Member Posts: 3,466

    I sincerely hope you will resubmit higher quality universal apps in the future. I'm not sure how you have built out your iOS and Android apps but if you design them right you could share code between then and a universal Windows app using C++ or .NET code with tooling from Xamarin which I have personally worked with. I know this takes time and effort, but I really hope you will consider doing this soon.

    Yes please, [Y]

    Bohuslav

  • glorybound9
    glorybound9 Member Posts: 10

    Kevin, I experienced the problems with the SD card also. After much experimentation, I have been able to get Logos to run quite well from my microSD card on ASUS VivoTab Smart. I tried installing the Resouces on the SD card, but Logos crashed trying to load and index the library. The solution came with Windows 8.1, the ability to create a VHD on the microSD card. Installing the entire Logos program to the microSD card worked, then. Also, I got the highest quality, fastest microSD card available - Samsung 64 GB SDXC Pro card, though Sandisk now has a slightly faster card. I re-located my Documents, Pictures, Videos and Music folders to the microSD card to preserve space on the SSD drive. It is necessary to create a Start-up task in task scheduler to launch the VHD as Windows will not do this automatically. I run Evernote from my microSD card also and I don't recommended letting both programs try to update their databases at the same time. Logos indexing on VivoTab is still faster than any XP machine I used Logos on. Initial indexing took about 5-6 hours.

  • Kevin, I experienced the problems with the SD card also. After much experimentation, I have been able to get Logos to run quite well from my microSD card on ASUS VivoTab Smart. I tried installing the Resouces on the SD card, but Logos crashed trying to load and index the library. The solution came with Windows 8.1, the ability to create a VHD on the microSD card. Installing the entire Logos program to the microSD card worked, then. Also, I got the highest quality, fastest microSD card available - Samsung 64 GB SDXC Pro card, though Sandisk now has a slightly faster card. I re-located my Documents, Pictures, Videos and Music folders to the microSD card to preserve space on the SSD drive. It is necessary to create a Start-up task in task scheduler to launch the VHD as Windows will not do this automatically. I run Evernote from my microSD card also and I don't recommended letting both programs try to update their databases at the same time. Logos indexing on VivoTab is still faster than any XP machine I used Logos on. Initial indexing took about 5-6 hours.

    Thanks for the tip, glorybound9--I'm right now re-installing Logos on my WinBook per your instructions.  I'm following this guide to creating the VHD: http://superuser.com/questions/692151/on-windows-8-particularly-on-tablets-with-a-permanently-inserted-micro-sd-card  I really hope this ends the whole issue with having to re-copy the resources every time there's an update.

  • FYI, glorybound9's solution worked!  My WinBook now can index Logos on the Micro SD drive!!! [Y] [Y]

    I do love my new WinBook, and Logos works great on it.  FWIW, it's a 32-bit machine and even runs old games like one of my favorites of all time, Civ 2. [;)]

  • JAL
    JAL Member Posts: 625 ✭✭

    FYI, glorybound9's solution worked!  My WinBook now can index Logos on the Micro SD drive!!!

    Thank you Daniel, and glorybound9, please continue to report.[<:o)]

    I also have Logos 6 installed on the same model WinBook tablet and I'm enjoying the experience. I haven't needed this solution but am glad to hear about it.

    "The Christian mind is the prerequisite of Christian thinking. And Christian thinking is the prerequisite of Christian action." - Harry Blamires, 1963