Logos Now
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I am reminded of a line from the musical "Damn Yankees":
"What Lola wants, Lola Gets"
Except the subject has changed:
"What Logos wants, Logos gets."
Sadly, in the musical, Lola was the devil's assistant. I have not yet decided whether to hop on the "Logos Now" bandwagon.
Blessings,
FloydPastor-Patrick.blogspot.com
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Well, I wish all the renters happiness, and goodspeed.
This is looking like I'll be forced to withdraw from my crossgrade addiction. $9 per month is less than I spend on 2 sushi's. But sushi I like. Renting sushi, nope.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Russ (and others),
We have no intention or plan of ending support for the downloadable version. There is a huge, 20+ year investment in the downloadable technology, and it will take years to fully match that functionality on the web. Even then, there will be high value and utility in fast, offline, tech.
There is no plan to end downloadable software. Cloud based access is a complement, not a replacement.
-- Bob
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Russ White said:
If Logos turns into "you must be connected to the Internet to use this software," then it won't be much use any longer, as far as I'm concerned.
I don't believe this is the case. I believe there is still a commitment to having software that is usable off-line.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Bob Pritchett said:
There is no plan to end downloadable software. Cloud based access is a complement, not a replacement.
Thanks Bob...
Russ
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Logos 10 | Dell Inspiron 7373 | Windows 11 Pro 64, i7, 16GB, SSD | iPhone 13 Pro Max
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Floyd Johnson said:
I am reminded of a line from the musical "Damn Yankees":
I think you've got it wrong. It's "What the users want, the users get." :-)
Many of you want one-time purchase, downloadable software with offline use. You get that now, and you'll continue to get it.
Another user -- the type who uses Pandora or Spotify instead of buying albums, who watches Netflix instead of buying DVDs, and who uses Google Docs instead of Microsoft Word -- wants everything online, in the cloud, accessible with a simple log-in from whatever device they happen to be using. We are just expanding our offerings to support these people, too.
We can and will continue to support the single-transaction, downloadable software model. It's where the majority of our customers are, and we plan to support it indefinitely.
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Thanks Bob, for your words.
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I would like to understand what the "Logos Web App" is, the link will not let you in unless you have a subscription but I would like to understand what it is before I consider a subscription.
Is it an alternative to a local Logos 6 installation through a web browser to the Logos servers that replicates you particular resource collection and settings?
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Bob Pritchett said:
Russ (and others),
We have no intention or plan of ending support for the downloadable version. There is a huge, 20+ year investment in the downloadable technology, and it will take years to fully match that functionality on the web. Even then, there will be high value and utility in fast, offline, tech.
There is no plan to end downloadable software. Cloud based access is a complement, not a replacement.
-- Bob
This is comforting!
Disclaimer: I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication. If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.
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Bruce Dunning said:
Logos Now just gives us early access to the features which will be available for ownership at a later time with a new version.
That's not exactly what Phil said. He said it is "likely that some" of the Now features may make it into the desktop version, but nothing has been decided.
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Bob Pritchett said:
There is no plan to end downloadable software. Cloud based access is a complement, not a replacement.
-- Bob
Thanks Bob for this clarification. And please continue to make this clear, because it is a huge concern for some of us who travel and are in places where we cannot have access to internet. Language such as "for the foreseeable future" is not comfort language. What you wrote is. I am happy to see the development of cloud based Faithlife. Very happy. But the program in some kind of form must be useable offline to be worth my continued investment.
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I for one, have no plans to subscribe. After spending thousands of dollars with Logos and upgrading my base package multiple times now Logos wants a monthly fee to have the latest without ownership. What attracted me to Logos was ownership of resources combined with powerful software for Bible study.I'm not happy with the direction that Logos is going as a company. They have been successful as a company serving a target market of consumers who value ownership. Why don't they spin off a new company that goes after renters who don't value ownership?
http://www.TrinityExamined.com
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Bob Pritchett said:Floyd Johnson said:
I am reminded of a line from the musical "Damn Yankees":
I think you've got it wrong. It's "What the users want, the users get." :-)
You may be right, but I do not see users clamoring for this feature. I see them acquiescing to its use because it is the only way to have access the some of the new features - both now and in the future. Maybe permanently - given some of the ambiguous statements being made by you and your staff. Some of the new features may be ported over to the installed based - but it sure sounds like you reserve the right to make some of these features ONLY available via subscription.
Blessings,
FloydPastor-Patrick.blogspot.com
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James Taylor said:Phil Gons said:
It's our hope that we'll be delivering such great value with Logos Now that you'll all carve out $8.99/mo. to subscribe to it indefinitely.
Is it safe to assume at least one new thing per month? (Primarily referring to features, not just specials sales or web app access)
We're moving to a six-week release cycle. Some releases will be bigger than others, but you should see multiple updates and additions with each release. It's not likely that each release will include a major new feature like Concordance. Those will be less frequent. Instead, you'll probably see us roll out these features in phases. So 6.3 will add some additional functionality to Concordance, and 6.4 more, etc. Smaller features like guide sections, etc. will be more frequent.
We also hope to release a new interactive fairly regularly.
Unfinished datasets will get regular updates as well. For example, the OT Propositional Bible Outlines will get a steady stream of updates until it's complete. We're not sure if those updates will line up with releases yet or not.
Media collections will also continue to grow, though that growth may be more organic and frequent and not necessarily line up with new releases every six weeks.
We're still figuring out the details, but we're highly motivated to earn and keep your business. So adding sufficient new value with each release—while allowing for some variation—is a top priority for us.
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I do not know how I feel this either.
It seems like Logos is moving toward a model of asking us to be "Renters" of at least some material.
My undergraduate degree is in Accounting and I know it is better to "own" than to "rent" and that there is a difference between simply "renting" on a month by month basis and a "lease to own option." Renting is done for several reasons, but if one has the financial means it is almost always the inferior option.
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Russ White said:Phil Gons said:
It’s access to the future of Logos Bible Software, today.
And yet -- there is the promise that updates to the base packages will continue. So -- I'm a little confused. Is a web based app the future of logos, or... ?? If it is, then I'll stop investing now, and start working on building a library elsewhere.
Russ
It's both. We're committed to the desktop apps as a platform, but also preparing for the future with a more robust web app—and speeding up our investment into our mobile apps. We want to offer an awesome Bible study experience to everyone regardless of their preferred platform. So web and mobile have a lot of catching up to do, but desktop is still very important.
Logos Now is more about data, media, and interactive content than anything else. The goal is for it to be platform agnostic.
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So far, rent the koolaid, or buy the koolaid. (It's getting hot down here; koolaid's still tasty.)
Now, Phil did say 'some' leaky koolaid might find its way into the software. And Bob said nothing's changed ... rent the koolaid or buy the koolaid (later).
How will Lola sing the next verse?
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Kenneth Neighoff said:
I noticed that some of the data sets have a price tag, can you buy just a data set, like the Greek grammatical construction? And the one for the law?
Not at this point. They may be available in a future base package.
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So is Logos Now just a subscription based beta testing program? It seems that it's an avenue to have early access to new features. In regard to the Logos Web App, is this a replacement for biblia.com or geared to be biblia.com on steroids?
Logos Now could generate some solid response depending on the path it takes, though I doubt I'd jump in as others have observed, with my current investment not sure I'd get the value from it.
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Phil Gons said:
We'd like to offer annual billing eventually, which would be $89.99.
This would help those of us not in the US: I have to pay a transaction fee every time I buy anything from Logos, so this would save me the transaction fee every month.
Running Logos 6 Platinum and Logos Now on Surface Pro 4, 8 GB RAM, 256GB SSD, i5
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ok so 2 questions.
1) when will the yearly fee be avail?
2) its still not clear will all of Logos Now be in L7?? So if we wait till L7 we get the goods or will there be Logos Now stuff ONLY?? and L7 only???
/confused.
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Phil Gons said:
We're still figuring out the details, but we're highly motivated to earn and keep your business. So adding sufficient new value with each release—while allowing for some variation—is a top priority for us.
Why launch this now given there are some many unanswered questions? Launching a new product but saying "we're still figuring out details" seems like an odd way to announce something new.
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Hop on board, play in the sandpit for free, and cancel it you don't like the sand texture before you have to pay.
That's what I would do.Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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A required monthly fee to have the latest robust software from Logos may backfire and alienate many. Did Logos actually think long and hard about this new change in policy? I'm glad my hope is on Jesus Christ and not on a company
http://www.TrinityExamined.com
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Lynden Williams said:
Hop on board, play in the sandpit for free, and cancel it you don't like the sand texture before you have to pay.
That's what I would do.Or wait until the dust settles and then start your one month free subscription to see if you like it and want to continue. That's what I would do. No need to rush into something that is unclear. I have been with Logos long enough to know they have difficulties when announcing a major change...
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Into Grace said:
Why don't they spin off a new company that goes after renters who don't value ownership?
Should Microsoft have spun off a new company for MSOffice because they were an operating system firm? I expect to primarily maintain my ownership model but would be terrified of Logos disappearing entirely if I weren't seeing it reach out to my grandson's generation by putting at his fingertips what they put at mine.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I'm in!!! Love the additional Visual Copy templates. Looking forward to exploring the other additional features...
__________
15" rMBP 2.6 GHz i7 | 16 GB RAM | 1.0 TB Flash Drive | OS X 10.12.3 | Logos 7.0 (7.3.0.0062)
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MJ. Smith said:
Should Microsoft have spun off a new company for MSOffice because they were an operating system firm? I expect to primarily maintain my ownership model but would be terrified of Logos disappearing entirely if I weren't seeing it reach out to my grandson's generation by putting at his fingertips what they put at mine.
[Y][Y]
Running Logos 6 Platinum and Logos Now on Surface Pro 4, 8 GB RAM, 256GB SSD, i5
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Mark Johnson said:
Renting is done for several reasons, but if one has the financial means it is almost always the inferior option.
Have you seen any of the recent studies on buying vs. renting your college textbook? It seems to me that a balance between owning and renting makes the most financial sense. Rapidly updated electronic textbooks compared to rarely updated physical print distinctly changed the equation - and made textbooks possible for many of my classes where we had extremely limited printed resources available. In one class had we been pre-copy machine I would have been reduced to language class with no available dictionary - period. As opposed to another class where I could get a dictionary (very expensive) that was bilingual - Old Turkic to German ... to bad I speak English.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Frank Sauer said:
So is Logos Now just a subscription based beta testing program? It seems that it's an avenue to have early access to new features.
No. Early access to new features is just part of the value of a Now subscription. Access to new dataset, media, and interactive content is the core of the subscription for now.
Frank Sauer said:In regard to the Logos Web App, is this a replacement for biblia.com or geared to be biblia.com on steroids?
It's not a replacement. The Logos web app is for serious Bible study on the web. Biblia.com is for quick access to the Bible.
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Into Grace said:
A required monthly fee to have the latest robust software from Logos may backfire and alienate many.
The alternative is 'wait 2-3 years for the next major release of the software' to have the most robust software. There wasn't another option as far as I know.
What I see is Faithlife offering to let us get early use of tools and data sets as they are developed. They benefit by having a more level income stream that helps them keep developing tools and data, and users get the benefit of not waiting 2-3 years to use it. It remains to be seen if users will see the value and want to part with the money to get the benefit offered for their side of the transaction.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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Mark said:
Via the Logos web app, yes. There are no plans to build a Linux desktop app. We see the web app being the solution for Linux folks, Chromebook users, people with older computers or insufficient disk space, and, of course, those who don't want to mess with desktop software, downloads, indexing, etc.
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Phil Gons said:Mark said:
Via the Logos web app, yes. There are no plans to build a Linux desktop app. We see the web app being the solution for Linux folks, Chromebook users, people with older computers or insufficient disk space, and, of course, those who don't want to mess with desktop software, downloads, indexing, etc.
Will you offer a ChromeBook "app" bookmark that goes to the Logos Web App similar to what you're doing for Biblia? That'd be handy for ChromeBook users.
Nathan Parker
Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com
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Travis Walter said:
1) when will the yearly fee be avail?
Not sure. It's on our list, but there are a few technical challenges we need to solve (e.g., allowing a one-month free trial with annual billing).
Travis Walter said:
2) its still not clear will all of Logos Now be in L7?? So if we wait till L7 we get the goods or will there be Logos Now stuff ONLY?? and L7 only???
Logos Now is a service, and some of the service components don't lend themselves to inclusion in a base package very well (e.g., membership benefits such as special deals). Also, some of the ever-expanding content might be reserved for Now as well. It's likely that most of the static content will eventually be available in future base packages.
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Phil Gons said:
We're moving to a six-week release cycle. Some releases will be bigger than others, but you should see multiple updates and additions with each release.
Thanks Phil, this is exciting.
May the Lord continue to bless you all with creativity and wisdom to implement these excellent ideas, and all that you need to further equip the body of Christ with tools to gain all that we possibly can from the Scripture.
Logos 10 | Dell Inspiron 7373 | Windows 11 Pro 64, i7, 16GB, SSD | iPhone 13 Pro Max
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I think if there was a way to say, x% or even 100% [:P] of your sub fees will be credited to coupons or discounts to the new base packages, then its just a funding stream to L earlier and I think a lot of users would do that.. But right now aside from being in the microwave society when we all want our cake NOW vs 2 years. Still looking at the value.
I guess I want to know what discounts/specials are on the table.
And yes yearly is much better..
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Travis Walter said:
x% or even 100%
of your sub fees will be credited to coupons or discounts to the new base packagesI like the sound of that [Y]
Logos 10 | Dell Inspiron 7373 | Windows 11 Pro 64, i7, 16GB, SSD | iPhone 13 Pro Max
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JH said:Phil Gons said:
We're still figuring out the details, but we're highly motivated to earn and keep your business. So adding sufficient new value with each release—while allowing for some variation—is a top priority for us.
Why launch this now given there are some many unanswered questions? Launching a new product but saying "we're still figuring out details" seems like an odd way to announce something new.
We think we have enough of the details sorted out to launch it. The things we don't have figure out yet are about the future, and we like keep our options open until we have enough information to be sure we're making the right call.
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Into Grace said:
A required monthly fee to have the latest robust software from Logos may backfire and alienate many.
There is no required fee to get the latest updates. Those will continue to ship for free without a Now subscription.
Here's how I explained the difference earlier:
Logos 6 users will continue to receive free updates to their software: bug fixes, performance enhancements, improvements to existing features, and updates to their resources, datasets, media collections, and interactives. Logos Now subscribers, in addition to these things, will receive access to a variety of new categories of ever-growing content—datasets, media collections, and interactives—as well as early access to new features. Now subscribers will also receive access to the brand new Logos web app and will enjoy other membership benefits such as exclusive offers, special discounts, and more.
Into Grace said:Did Logos actually think long and hard about this new change in policy?
We don't see this as a change in policy. This something new that comes alongside what we've done in the past in terms of free updates. In the past, new content and new features would be held for the next version of the software. With Now, we're getting them into your hands much more quickly.
Into Grace said:I'm glad my hope is on Jesus Christ and not on a company
As it should be!
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Phil Gons said:
What is Logos Now?
- It’s a subscription-based service.
- It’s content and tools for serious Bible study.
- It builds on top of Logos 6.
- It’s continually growing and getting regular updates.
- It’s access to the future of Logos Bible Software, today.
- It's a membership program.
What do you get with Logos Now?
- A growing library of data, media, and interactive content.
- Early access to new features and tools.
- Access to the beta of the new Logos web app.
- Special membership benefits such as exclusive offers, special discounts, and more.
What does the first release include?
- Old Testament Propositional Bible Outlines (dataset)
- Greek Grammatical Constructions (dataset)
- Commandments of the Law (interactive)
- Visual Copy Templates (media)
- Author Slide Templates (media)
- Logos Stock Images, vol. 2 (media)
- Media Browser (tool)
- Concordance (tool)
- Access to the beta of the Logos web app
- Membership benefits (e.g., exclusive offers, special discounts)
We'll continue to add more value to it over time. More details forthcoming.
For which books of the OT have the Propositional Bible Outlines been completed? Is there a timeline for the remainder?
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Nathan Parker said:Phil Gons said:Mark said:
Via the Logos web app, yes. There are no plans to build a Linux desktop app. We see the web app being the solution for Linux folks, Chromebook users, people with older computers or insufficient disk space, and, of course, those who don't want to mess with desktop software, downloads, indexing, etc.
Will you offer a ChromeBook "app" bookmark that goes to the Logos Web App similar to what you're doing for Biblia? That'd be handy for ChromeBook users.
Yes. There should be an app in the Chrome web store soon.
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JH said:
For which books of the OT have the Propositional Bible Outlines been completed?
Genesis through Numbers.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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Mark said:
Language such as "for the foreseeable future" is not comfort language.
When we released Logos Bible Software 1.0 twenty-three years ago, most people had never heard of the Internet or used email, the Euro currency was still a decade away, and few people had cell-phones. The iPad is only five years old; the iPhone less than eight.
Lord willing, we plan to be here, serving you, twenty-three years from now. So I try not to make 'forever' promises, because I have no idea if downloading software will even be possible, let alone desirable, in twenty-three years. You might be doing your Bible study during your commute in your fully-automated flying car, and it might only support cloud-based access. That's why I say 'foreseeable'. :-)
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Phil Gons said:Into Grace said:
A required monthly fee to have the latest robust software from Logos may backfire and alienate many.
There is no required fee to get the latest updates. Those will continue to ship for free without a Now subscription.
Here's how I explained the difference earlier:
Logos 6 users will continue to receive free updates to their software: bug fixes, performance enhancements, improvements to existing features, and updates to their resources, datasets, media collections, and interactives. Logos Now subscribers, in addition to these things, will receive access to a variety of new categories of ever-growing content—datasets, media collections, and interactives—as well as early access to new features. Now subscribers will also receive access to the brand new Logos web app and will enjoy other membership benefits such as exclusive offers, special discounts, and more.
Into Grace said:Did Logos actually think long and hard about this new change in policy?
We don't see this as a change in policy. This something new that comes alongside what we've done in the past in terms of free updates. In the past, new content and new features would be held for the next version of the software. With Now, we're getting them into your hands much more quickly.
Into Grace said:I'm glad my hope is on Jesus Christ and not on a company
As it should be!
Thanks Phil and Logos for allowing me to voice free speech on this forum. I wish Logos success.
http://www.TrinityExamined.com
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Mark Johnson said:
My undergraduate degree is in Accounting and I know it is better to "own" than to "rent"
I think that this rule of thumb wasn't built for the digital economy, which has dramatically different per-unit cost-of-goods. For example, is there any 'own' scenario that beats the economics of a Netflix subscription? If you watch a could movies / episodes each week, it's hard to see how own could ever beat rent in that scenario.
Ultimately our goal is to reduce the cost of Bible study tools. You don't have to believe us -- you're welcome to sit out Logos Now and future products, and we'll continue to serve you as we have for many years -- but I hope you'll keep an open mind and watch what follows. You'll see the Logos Now isn't about extracting more from you, it's about giving you an even better deal -- so that ultimately we can make more by serving a larger percentage of the church. Our ambition is to make Collectors-level Bible study tools and library available to everyone for just a few dollars a month. It will take a while (years?) to get there, but that's our heart and passion.
Logos Now is a great deal, and we're going to be continually making it better. But I'm not going to try to argue you into it, and we're certainly not going to force anyone into it. I'm not offended if you choose to sit it out. I'm just a little sad that you'll be missing out on such a great deal. :-)
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