Logos you are trying my patience with your irresponsibility in coding

Remember this great series, Homilies of St. John Chrysostom, that you delivered Wednesday?

Can you give me even a half-baked reason why they are not tagged to appear in the sermon section? It's very hard to come up with a theory that is not insulting to the employees or the company. The data is simple - a sermon number and a passage ... no complications from liturgical dates etc. And the TOC illustrates how difficult it is to find the information:

HOMILY I

Rom. 1:1, 2

Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an Apostle, separated unto the Gospel of God, (which He had promised afore by His prophets in the Holy Scriptures.)

HOMILY II

Rom. 1:8

First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world

HOMILY III

Rom. 1:18

For the wrath of God is revealed from Heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness

HOMILY IV

Rom. 1:26, 27

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one towards another

HOMILY V

Rom. 1:28

Even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient

HOMILY VI

Rom. 2:17, 18

Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the Law, and makest thy boast of God, and knowest His will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the Law

HOMILY VII

Rom. 3:9–18

What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin. As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: there is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues have they used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips; whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: their feel are swift to shed blood: destruction and misery are in their ways: and the way of peace have they not known: there is no fear of God before their eyes

HOMILY VIII

Rom. 4:1, 2

What shall we then say that Abraham, our father as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God

HOMILY IX

Rom. 4:23

Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; but for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on Him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead

Come on, Faithlife. Your users are not idiots - we count on basic coding and notice that it is missing.

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Comments

Kenneth Neighoff

Do you have any faith that the Augustine homiles will have this coding?

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715476#Comment_715476

This is a frustrating thing. I did not get this work but when FL sells Logos books as extra valued due to their being fully tagged it becomes a deep disappointment to see items released poorly tagged. In this case the issue might be the outsourcing (I believe that all CP sets are done overseas, perhaps the people doing them were not diligent in their quality of work). But in the end the responsibility is at FL as they are the one's releasing it. No matter what the work (CP or PP) hopefully better tagging can be a goal for FL.

-Dan

Keith Larson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715611#Comment_715611

I think it is an outsourcing problem, how many people in India even know what a sermon or homily is? For that matter how many people under the age of 50 in the USA know! [:(]

Let's hope that bringing this to Logos' attention will bring a timely fix.

BTW I was frustrated and disappointed as well.

Kyle G. Anderson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715611#Comment_715611

Short story: This has nothing to do with QC, coding, or production--at least in terms of initial production. These resources were finished before sermon labeling was thing done automatically to qualifying resources.

A separate decision was made to delay the release of the products. Unfortunately that decision didn't take into account tagging advances between initial production and its release to customers.

I've already begun internal discussions on how to prevent this same scenario from happening in the future. Thankfully, we generally don't delay collections very often.

You're absolutely right to be frustrated by this. I am frustrated as well. If I were in your shoes I would have expected sermon labeling.

I've begun the process of adding sermon labels for both John Chrysostom and Augustine. (The same thing that happened to John Chrysostom happened to Augustine as well.)

I anticipate the tagging for both to be finished by Monday.

Again, I'm sorry for the confusion and inconvenience. Thank you for bringing it to our attention.

Kenneth Neighoff

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715622#Comment_715622

Thanks Kyle, for this update and that this issue is going to be addressed.

Kenneth Neighoff

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715626#Comment_715626

I'm glad to see the Augustine sermons have been pushed back, so they don't have to be downloaded and indexed twice.

John Goodman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715621#Comment_715621

Racism alert... Plenty of great work happens outside the USA. Beyond your borders folks are not stupid!

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715654#Comment_715654

Racism alert... Plenty of great work happens outside the USA. Beyond your borders folks are not stupid!

I am Canadian...and I am sorry if I was being racist (while i never meant it that way I can see how it might be seen to be). The overseas workers are far often more attentive and dedicated than most of us in North America.

-dan

GregW

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715654#Comment_715654

Racism alert... Plenty of great work happens outside the USA. Beyond your borders folks are not stupid!

[Y]

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715622#Comment_715622

Thank you Kyle. It does sound like there is a systemic workflow problem that your department takes the hit for because you are the obvious target for the end user. At least, this time you released a group of liturgical books that I haven't found any problems with ... they are the usual target of my wrath. [8-|]

As for sermon vs. homily, it isn't only age but it is also denomination that determines which term is more familiar.

As for out-sourced work, I'm sure since the work is outsourced primarily to India (or was in the past), that it was simply that the American with his extremely short American church history was ignorant of the extremely long history of the St. Thomas Christians (and Cochin Jews) in India. I'll be embarrassed for American provincialism.[:$]

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715654#Comment_715654

Racism alert... Plenty of great work happens outside the USA. Beyond your borders folks are not stupid!

[Y]

i understand the frustrations and they should be expressed but I too was concerned about this aspect of the way they had been expressed. And the outcome was the speculation that led to those comments was far wide of the mark. Good to see Logos is already addressing the issue.

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715622#Comment_715622

I've begun the process of adding sermon labels for both John Chrysostom and Augustine. (The same thing that happened to John Chrysostom happened to Augustine as well.)

Did it happen to https://www.logos.com/product/38289/homilies-of-st-john-chrysostom-upgrade as well? I'm not on my computer to check.

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715665#Comment_715665

As for out-sourced work, I'm sure since the work is outsourced primarily to India (or was in the past), that it was simply that the American with his extremely short American church history was ignorant of the extremely long history of the St. Thomas Christians (and Cochin Jews) in India. I'll be embarrassed for American provincialism.

About a week or so ago, I saw a news clip on the internet that showed parents in India literally climbing the side of a multi-story school building like ants in order to pass cheat sheets through open windows to their children who were in the process of taking tests. Video footage showed students openly copying answers and passing them around with only an occasional hint of quickly tamped-down shame even as they stared straight into the cameras. The whole scene was just a click or two this side of "chaotic", and this is apparently the current status quo throughout the country. The headmaster they interviewed said cheating was obviously rampant, but because it was openly promoted by parents, he didn't know what could be done to stop it...and then pointed out that he personally didn't need to stop it, because at his school, there was no problem to worry about. The piece concluded by saying that the education system in the country was deteriorating rapidly. Go figure...unless you graduated from this system, in which case you may not be able to.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715654#Comment_715654

Racism alert... Plenty of great work happens outside the USA. Beyond your borders folks are not stupid!

Don't be like a stupid Democrat and call everything "racism." You would think a member of the Christian community would know better.

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715746#Comment_715746

Racism alert... Plenty of great work happens outside the USA. Beyond your borders folks are not stupid!

Don't be like a stupid Democrat and call everything "racism." You would think a member of the Christian community would know better.

I must admit what I said could easily have interpreted what I said as racist and I am glad enough to have John call me on it.

-Dan

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715739#Comment_715739

About a week or so ago, I saw a news clip on the internet that showed parents in India literally climbing the side of a multi-story school building like ants in order to pass cheat sheets through open windows to their children who were in the process of taking tests. Video footage showed students openly copying answers and passing them around with only an occasional hint of quickly tamped-down shame even as they stared straight into the cameras. The whole scene was just a click or two this side of "chaotic", and this is apparently the current status quo throughout the country. The headmaster they interviewed said cheating was obviously rampant, but because it was openly promoted by parents, he didn't know what could be done to stop it...and then pointed out that he personally didn't need to stop it, because at his school, there was no problem to worry about. The piece concluded by saying that the education system in the country was deteriorating rapidly. Go figure...unless you graduated from this system, in which case you may not be able to.

I suggest you go back to the article and pay closer attention. While there are problems, the recent article was specific to the state of Bihar and should not be applied to the entire country. Last week there was a major series of convictions for teachers cheating on standardized testing in Atlanta. That doesn't tell me much of anything about Seattle.

It has been my experience that college graduates from India range from well educated to well-frankly-idgits-with-a-piece-of-paper ... which is what I find in the US with perhaps a slightly different distribution when adjusted for major.

As for the local ties to India as a basis for knowing something about South Asian Indians:

"Mahatma Gandhi has come to Bellevue.

A statue of the revered "Apostle of Peace" who led India to independence was placed at the Bellevue Regional Library downtown, . . .

The six-foot, bronze figure is a gift from the government of India to Bellevue, honoring the people of the city where many Indian nationals who have settled and found success. ...

Fifteen percent of the state's Indian population -- more than 6,000 people -- live in Bellevue, 10 Indian firms have U.S. headquarters on the Eastside and 30 percent of the global workforce for Redmond-based Microsoft is Indian."

Oh, yeah, so it follows: "30 percent of the global workforce for Redmond-based Microsoft" "graduated from this system, in which case you they may not be able to.(go figure)" So no, I won't tolerate your more subtle but equally offensive racism ... make that more offensive because I believe the OP was thinking primarily of differences in religion and language not personal work ethics, knowledge, etc.

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715775#Comment_715775

I long for the day when making a specific statement doesn't generate a lecture on "seeing the bigger picture" and making a general statement doesn't generate a lecture on "not stereo-typing"...because the only kind of communication that results is tedious Simon Says, pedantic, base-touching lecturism. I mean, you actually started quoting percentages!

Fwiw, I had honors classes both yesterday and today with Indian-descent students in them. I am fully aware of the intellectual potential that individuals of that ethnic persuasion have. Although he came to office after I moved to Alabama, my home state of Louisiana has the first governor with ethnic Indian heritage. Great!...and so what?

Although my reasons are wholly apolitical, I "agree" with George that injecting race into Dan's comment (whether he admits to understanding how it could be construed in that way or not), is inappropriate "gotcha"-style judgmentalism. What if the "outsourcing" was to Germany? Korea? Taiwan? Would it still be racist? Those cultures have "reputations" for strong education. That is a generalization, obviously...I am also quite sure those nations produce a fair number of dullards, as well. But here's the thing...generalizations are meant as statements of broad, unfocused trends, not as micro-focused examinations of each element or individual. Stopping every single time a generalization is made and spouting off a raft of data showing exceptions to the broader rule is near-sightedness turned into idolatry. Almost every single statement made can be raked and measured and sieved to come up with exceptions. But bowing to such incessant dissatisfaction is to mindlessly worship Zeno's paradox to the point of inaction.

JAL

Your users are not idiots

[+o(]

https://vimeo.com/79695097

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715815#Comment_715815

[:D]

John Goodman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715750#Comment_715750

Dan, thanks for your gracious response perhaps I could have been gentler... Sorry. Peace be with you.

Kenneth Neighoff

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715848#Comment_715848

Last night the Augustine sermons and homilies downloaded and are working in the sermon section. Maybe they will go back and code the Augustine sermons on the Psalms.

David J. Wilson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715853#Comment_715853

Perhaps we might be able to understand this as a degree of confusion which may exist in some parts as to whether a Homily is a Sermon ?
Some seem to think it definitely is, others seem to think it is something entirely different from what they understand as a sermon, still others think a homily is a type of sermon. So whether you should consider a homily to be a sermon depends both on your denominational background and the location in which you learned English. (remembering also that English is not a single language but more a group of languages and a word may be understood quite differently in Europe, North America, Africa, Australia and South Asia)

Homily

(Eerdmans Bible Dictionary)

(Gk. homilía). A simple address, consisting of a paraphrase of a substantial portion of Scripture, having more the character of a Bible reading than a sermon. Directed toward practical matters, it was frequently used as a method of preaching in the early Christian church. The letter to the Hebrews could be regarded as one or more homilies (e.g., ch. 11), and although the epistles of Paul appear to be genuine letters written to address specific topics, his letter to the Ephesians may constitute a homiletic reworking of the letter to the Philippians.

The Greek term appears only at 1 Cor. 15:33, where it would be best translated as "talk, conversation":

Based on the above, many would read this to mean a homily and a sermon a quite different !!

Definition of a Homily

Logos Mobile Ed: CM101 Segment 45

In this lesson, I want to talk to you about homilies. Earlier I have talked about different types of sermons—evangelistic sermons, doctrinal sermons, [and] pastoral messages. In this section, in this lesson, I want to look at the notion of "homilies." Sometimes that word "homily" is interchangeable with the word "sermon," and so I want to kind of show you what a homily is, and then you’ll know when it’s a homily and when it’s not.

Homilies Are Informal

Like I say, they’re informal. It sounds and feels like you’re sitting down and having a cup of coffee with the preacher, and he or she is just talking about what the text is saying from verse by verse.

HOMILY: Preaching by an ordained minister to explain the Scriptures proclaimed in the liturgy and to exhort the people to accept them as the Word of God (Catechism of the Catholic Church)

SC52: By means of the homily the mysteries of the faith and the guiding principles of the Christian life are expounded from the sacred text, during the course of the liturgical year;

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715897#Comment_715897

Is it ee-ther or ii-ther? Let's call the whole thing off. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ3fjQa5Hls

David J. Wilson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715899#Comment_715899

Is it ee-ther or ii-ther?

"ee-ther" is that theoretical vapor that fills the space between the planets and stars and out of which new ideas are plucked....

"ii-ther" is very very cold "ee-ther" as experienced on the east coast of North America during the winter months (November to May, perhaps even early June this year...)

John Goodman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715746#Comment_715746

Racism alert... Plenty of great work happens outside the USA. Beyond your borders folks are not stupid!

Don't be like a stupid Democrat and call everything "racism." You would think a member of the Christian community would know better.

Indeed: https://disqus.com/home/discussion/washtimes/indiana_pizzeria_owners_close_doors_may_leave_town_after_gay_wedding_attacks/#comment-1942403412

I try not to be offensive but I also try to walk the path less traveled and call a foul where I see one. No hard feelings intended.

When it comes to racism or any other prejudice I think we are better off assuming we pick it up along the way - for sure I am prejudiced in my own ways too. Lets not take ourselves too seriously and look for opportunities to learn a better way?

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715733#Comment_715733

I've begun the process of adding sermon labels for both John Chrysostom and Augustine. (The same thing that happened to John Chrysostom happened to Augustine as well.)

Did it happen to https://www.logos.com/product/38289/homilies-of-st-john-chrysostom-upgrade as well? I'm not on my computer to check.

I checked two volumes: one had it, one appeared not to.

Kyle G. Anderson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/715949#Comment_715949

An update to the Augustine collection was published on Friday.

An update to both John Chrysostom Homily collections were published this morning. All three collections should have sermon label tagging where appropriate.

Thank you for your patience and I apologize for the inconvenience. Again, I want to re-iterate we're having internal discussions on how to handle scenarios for cases where delaying the release of a product that has already been produced are handled.