Access To Early Engine Upgrades in Now/Cloud

Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:

Logos Now and Cloud subscribers will always get the earliest access to new features in the desktop software. There's a three-staged rollout:

• Now/Cloud subscribers
• Base package / Crossgrade owners
• Free engine downloaders

We don't maintain different versions of the Logos 6 desktop engine. Everyone gets the same code base with each new release. The difference is one of licenses. Certain features get turned on by the presence of resources.

When we release the next major version of the desktop engine, Now and Cloud subscribers will get access first, followed by new base package or crossgrade owners. Several months later, we'll remove the restrictions that hide pure code features and make them available in the new free engine update.

Perfect! That's exactly what I was hoping for. Thanks for the info!

Mark Stevens said:

As someone who has been a long-term customer of Logos I have to say this move by the company is incredibly disappointing. A good company would reward longterm users and not those who pay ongoing fees. Even Microsoft has woken up to the fact that free engines for all on an equal playing field is the way to go. 

What happens in the future? Eventually I foresee a day when although I own my books should I wish to purchase more I'll have to pay a subscription? Are you able to guarantee users that they will always be able to buy books? Or will you, as I suspect will happen, eventually only have subscription service? 

Bob Pritchett, this will not mean much to you and will barely make a splash on any bottom line but you've lost me as a customer. If I could sell my Logos Bible Software I would. If you'd buy it back, I'd sell it in a heartbeat. I once loved this software and now it is simply what i am stuck with. It feels that as a customer all you are really interested in is money because you guys seem to find a million ways to extract it from us. 

I know loyal Logos users will jump to the company's defence. Good on you, we each have to make our own decisions. I have made mine!

Sincerely, Mark Stevens

Hi Mark,

I'm hoping what I'm about to say will bring you more comfort and clarity. As of now, the Logos Core Engine is free, and it's always been free. Every Logos user gets a free "upgrade" to the latest version of the Core Engine, whether they own a handful of resources in the platform or have invested thousands of dollars in thousands of books (like I have).

Additionally, any book updates you currently own are also free, where Logos goes in, fixes typos, adds new links to resources, etc. That's something never done in print books. I've seen plenty of books I own in my library get updated with new links and fixes over the years, even years after purchasing the books.

The only policy Logos has when it comes to Core Engine upgrades is while everyone gets access to the Core Engine for free, users that purchase a Logos Base Collection or Crossgrade get "priority" access to the latest Core Engine when it launches. This has made sense since people that pay around $500 to upgrade to a new Logos Base Package or pay for a Logos Crossgrade will be flooding Faithlife/Logos servers enough with download requests, and by offering access to the Core Engine free to everyone on day one would only saturate Faithlife/Logos servers more, and those that pay the hefty price for a Base Collection or Crossgrade may have to "wait in line" while those paying absolutely nothing to upgrade would get to download the Core Engine before them. That wouldn't be fair to those who shelled out the funds to make upgrade investment and would cause more of a PR nightmare.

So Faithlife/Logos allows those that have plunked down the hard core investment in the latest program priority access to the Core Engine, then once the dust settles a little and Faithlife/Logos servers aren't getting stampeded, they open up access to the Core Engine for everyone to update to whether or not you spend another dime with Faithlife/Logos on any new books/datasets.

My question was, would the above policy now extend to Logos Now/Cloud customers? Since I'm going to be both a Now and Cloud Plus subscriber, I'm going to be paying close to $30/month with Faithlife/Logos on top of already shelling out for a Logos 6 Base Collection. By the time the next version of the Core Engine is released a couple of years from now, I would have invested heavily in Logos Now and Cloud. All I was asking is that people like me who have been investing the money each month in Now or Cloud also be extended priority access to the next version of the Core Engine since it makes perfect sense to include us in the mix since in essence, we've been "pre-paying" for our Logos Base Collection and Crossgrade by subscribing all those months to Now/Cloud. It seems Faithlife/Logos is going to do exactly that and give us priority access to the Core Engine as well, which is perfectly fair and reasonable.

So bottom line, Faithlife/Logos' current policy is everyone gets access to each major version of the Core Engine for free (I can't think of any other major commercial Bible software platform that does this; I've always had to pay for the engine and for engine upgrades from other commercial Bible software companies). The only thing Faithlife/Logos does is give priority access to those who are either investing in purchasing a new Base Package, Crossgrade, and now it seems those who subscribe to Now/Cloud, as those customers are loyally investing solid funds into Faithlife/Logos to assist with the development of the new resources and datasets, and Faithlife/Logos is only rewarding their loyalty and ensuring they get first access to the engine before completely opening the floodgates to everyone.

Mark Stevens said:

Mark, Mark, and John - One of the most frustrating things that comes across condescending is the response "Logos will never make you pay for what you already own". I GET THAT! It is true, technically. If you re-read my concern it is not with what I own but with what is used to read what I own. I foresee a day when the only way to access the cloud is to pay for a subscription. Having said, Phil has graciously emailed me and assured me that such a day will never come. i assume he means that even if the engine as we know it disappears then the cloud service will be accessible to all for what they already own.

Here is my beef - I need Logos to read stuff I own. My mistake for investing in such a product. I should've listened to people when they told me to stick with books. Secondly, with the way the product constantly and persistently marketed and the language used to do so. It is wearing and  irritating. 

Like I said, the product promises so much and for me it has delivered next to nothing except more costs. My experience and my disappointment. The switch to cloud or now or whatever is just another way of highlighting this issue for me. 

You could also use the Send to Kindle feature to send your most critical books to the Kindle app, so in the event you needed a "backup" way to read your most critical books, you could open Kindle and there they are. 

Another thing you could do with the Logos Engine (especially for Logos Cloud subscribers) is to offer a core set of books with a permanent license free (a couple Bible translations, a concise public domain Bible commentary, a Bible dictionary, etc.) so Logos Cloud users who may discontinue their Logos Cloud license would still have access to the Desktop Core Engine (but be moved onto the same release schedule as other free engine owners during major Core Engine releases), their personal user files (so they can still access them or easily export them out of Logos in the unfortunate event they decided to remove the application), as well as a core set of free resources that would allow for very basic Bible study (any books they purchased a permanent license to would also still appear). This way, for Logos Cloud users who fear "losing" anything if they were to discontinue their Cloud subscription would only lose access to the premium resources/datasets if they cancel their subscription. They still have access to the Core Engine, their personal data files, and a very base set of resources to allow them perform a very basic Bible study that would hold them over unless they decide to re-subscribe to Logos Cloud again. You could call the plan "Logos Cloud Starter" or "Logos Cloud Basic". It's just a "free plan" that lets customers know they're not "losing" important data should they pull the plug on Logos Cloud, only their software is reverted into a more limited role.

Cynthia Tucker said:

Nathan, I was curious about what you meant by this: "Since I'm going to be both a Now and Cloud Plus subscriber, I'm going to be paying close to $30/month,"

You know that you if you're a Cloud subscriber you automatically get everything included in Logos Now, right? So there's no need to subscribe to both.

I was told Cloud Plus doesn't include all the features of Logos Now. Only Cloud Premium does. Therefore, while I'm on Cloud Plus, if I want everything in Logos Now, I still have to subscribe to it extra. Sounds strange, but I guess it's the only way to get it all until I later go on Cloud Premium (in which I could drop Now).

There's a couple of things I want badly in Now that aren't in Plus, so alas, until I can spring for Premium, I have to get both Now and Cloud Plus. I wish all the Cloud packages included everything in Now. Would be so much simpler.

Cynthia Tucker said:

Nathan Parker said:

There's a couple of things I want badly in Now that aren't in Plus, so alas, until I can spring for Premium, I have to get both Now and Cloud Plus. I wish all the Cloud packages included everything in Now. Would be so much simpler.

This is what Phil said when I asked the question about a month ago: "Depends which Cloud level you pick. The $50/mo. level, which is what you're using right now, gets you everything in Now. The $20/mo. level lacks Greek Grammatical Constructions; it's similar to the relationship between Silver and Gold. The $9/mo. level is like Bronze."

I didn't think Grammatical Constructions was worth $20 more per month. Were you told of other data sets missing in Plus?

I sure was in this post: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/107124.aspx. Here's what he said:

"All the Logos Now features are available in Premium. At the moment, all but the New Testament Manuscript Explorer and the Greek Grammatical Constructions Dataset are available in Plus."

So the two datasets missing from Plus are: Greek Grammatical Constructions and NT Manuscript Explorer. Since I'm in my second year of Greek this semester, both datasets will be handy for me, especially the Greek Grammatical Constructions dataset. I'm sure I'll be using it this semester. The NT Manuscript Explorer may or may not be used in my Greek class (I'm not sure if he's going to get into NTTC during my classes or not, my Hebrew professor is going to get into OTTC), but NTTC interests me in general, so having the dataset is fun to play with. I wouldn't say both are worth $20 more per month, but at around $8-9 more a month, sure, why not. :-)