Digging In
Hello all,
I am sure this question will be answered when the Learn Greek and Hebrew with Logos Bible Software video's are actually published but I am not really wanting to wait that long. My question goes back to my original Wow or Huh post.
I do not know the languages and want to see if I can figure out why the singular He is better than They in Genesis 3 15. ((At least I am assuming this)) But I am asking what I need to do to really get after it. I guess one thing might be do a passage search in my library for this verse. Next, I would need a word(s) search? What word(s) to search? Would the english word search help? I assume the original language search is the best...so I will do that as well.
What might be the best is someone talk me through what to search and how. I was hoping that I would be able to highlight the original language from a interlinear or reverse interlinear and search with that. I read in another thread that the reverse interlinear or interlinear (don't remember which one) was an abomination. Do they not have the text of the BHS or NA27 or a "good" original language text?
Do I just need to stop trying to study the original until I get at least more of a basic knowledge of greek and hebrew grammar and such?
William
Comments
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William Bingham said:
Do I just need to stop trying to study the original until I get at least more of a basic knowledge of greek and hebrew grammar and such?
In this particular case, the use of a collective noun is sufficiently similar across languages that I suspect you can learn more from the original on your own:
(1) However, I would start with understanding the use of collective nouns in English (or any other language you happen to know).
(2) I would then look at the Hebrew Penteteuch (Torah) or at least Genesis seeking all the collective nouns - is their verb singular or plural, are they the antecedent to a singular or plural pronoun.
(3) I would then take the passage in question and read as many footnotes and commentaries explaining the choice of singular or plural as I could.
(4) Then I would go back to the fuller pericope and make myself two lists - one for everything in the context that makes me think singular, another for everything implying plural.
(5) I'd then let it percolate in my mind for a while of prayerful consideration - 1 week to 1 decade should be enough.
Recognizing the problem is a major step in (eventually) learning the language.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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William Bingham said:
I do not know the languages and want to see if I can figure out why the singular He is better than They in Genesis 3 15. ((At least I am assuming this)) But I am asking what I need to do to really get after it. I guess one thing might be do a passage search in my library for this verse. Next, I would need a word(s) search? What word(s) to search? Would the english word search help? I assume the original language search is the best...so I will do that as well.
What might be the best is someone talk me through what to search and how. I was hoping that I would be able to highlight the original language from a interlinear or reverse interlinear and search with that. I read in another thread that the reverse interlinear or interlinear (don't remember which one) was an abomination. Do they not have the text of the BHS or NA27 or a "good" original language text?
Do I just need to stop trying to study the original until I get at least more of a basic knowledge of greek and hebrew grammar and such?
Hi William, there's a lot you can do without knowing Hebrew and Greek. I've prepared a video for you (and others) in this situation to help you dig into the text using some of the tools Logos offers. Hope this helps.
(I couldn't manage to embed this one; maybe it was too big. Anyway, click this link to go to where I've posted the video online, and you can play it from there.)
http://www.screencast.com/t/OWIyZDY5OTA
Note that I mention in this video something about finding the next Search hit in a resource. I believe that feature is new as of 4.0b, which is currently still in beta. But if you don't have the beta yet (I'd wait until it ships unless you're a glutton for punishment), you can still scroll down to see all the search hits highlighted.
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William Bingham said:
the Learn Greek and Hebrew with Logos Bible Software
This is not really on point, but the name was changed to "Learn to Use Biblical Greek and Hebrew with Logos Bible Software". They won't teach you Greek and Hebrew.
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Damian McGrath said:
the name was changed to "Learn to Use Biblical Greek and Hebrew with Logos Bible Software"
I noticed that this morning, but I was not sure it was a change. Thank you for confirming that.
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Rosie Perera said:
I've prepared a video for you (and others) in this situation to help you dig into the text using some of the tools Logos offers. Hope this helps.
Rosie,
I wanted to second the thought written by another forum user. I am not sure why his post did not seem to make it here. THANK YOU!!! THANK YOU!!! Thank you. I really appreciate the video! That was par excellance! Now I think I can even do this word study on other words! I really apreciate the time you took to do that video.
William.
P.S. Did I remember to say Thanks ?
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Rosie Perera said:
Hi William, there's a lot you can do without knowing Hebrew and Greek. I've prepared a video for you (and others) in this situation to help you dig into the text using some of the tools Logos offers. Hope this helps.
(I couldn't manage to embed this one; maybe it was too big. Anyway, click this link to go to where I've posted the video online, and you can play it from there.)
Rosie, good video. Unfortunately, word studies on pronouns are extremely limited in value.
I offer this video as a caveat
http://www.screencast.com/users/KevinBecker/folders/Jing/media/9aca314a-2590-4c9b-90c1-2983ace18350
If I get requests I might go further how I would address this particular question.
EDIT: I make a passing remark at the end about Paul making a distinction between seed and seeds in Galatians. Unfortunately I misspoke in that Paul is actually referencing Gen 12:7, not Gen 3:15 (oops!). However, of course the Gen 12:7 passage will fit into how you understand the way Genesis uses the word "seed."
Prov. 15:23
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Rosie & Kevin
Great Job, there is a need for a lot more of these kinds of videos (and beyond this topic). The ones provided by Logos are powerful but I'm guessing that people get further down the road when they see Logos in use over and over, applied, adopted, and exercised by more than one person.
Thanks
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Anthony Hamlin said:
Anthony, have you seen the wiki page listing all the videos people have made? The ones by John Fidel and Mark Barnes are particularly good.
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Yes!! I've view all except maybe the syntax ones.
[Y] MORE Please.
LOL, maybe some repentant prayer time is in order... I seem to have succumbed to gluttony.
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Kevin Becker said:
Rosie, good video. Unfortunately, word studies on pronouns are extremely limited in value.
True, I was mostly using that particular question as a springboard to teach how to use some features in Logos, not trying to resolve the question about seed in Gen 3:15.
Kevin Becker said:I offer this video as a caveat
http://www.screencast.com/users/KevinBecker/folders/Jing/media/9aca314a-2590-4c9b-90c1-2983ace18350
Excellent video! Thanks. I've added it to the list on the wiki. http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_4_Video_Tutorials
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Has anyone had a problem with Kevin's video?
In my browser...it's very large and I don't see all of the screen or elements that he makes reference to....
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Robert Pavich said:
Has anyone had a problem with Kevin's video?
In my browser...it's very large and I don't see all of the screen or elements that he makes reference to....
I noticed that also, to see everything you will need to view it fullscreen
Prov. 15:23
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Kevin Becker said:
I noticed that also, to see everything you will need to view it fullscreen
Kevin...
sorry to be dense...how do you do that?
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Kevin,
I figured it out....F11 on firefox But...it just gets bigger...I don't see more of your video....just bigger truncated video....
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Just to add....I am experiencing the same thing. The ESV text is nice and big but I can see nothing else. I was thinking it was me and my computer.
william
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I think this was a screen resolution thing; the first time I did it with a very high screen resolution. I cut my screen resolution way down and redid the video. We'll see if it works better. http://www.screencast.com/t/NjFiZGYyNDk
Prov. 15:23
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I couldn't help myself, I've made another video
Prov. 15:23
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Getting familiar with the original languages is always beneficial; however, until one gets past the sophormoric level of knowledge of the languages, it is typically dangerous at best to seek to exegete the original.
Along with your drive to learn the original languages, the best way to do it is with the guidance of a pastor that exegetes and teaches from the original languages.
This way he can provide wisdom as well to maintain the balance of the highest priorities in the Christian life with seminary level education.
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Pat Flanakin said:
Getting familiar with the original languages is always beneficial; however, until one gets past the sophormoric level of knowledge of the languages, it is typically dangerous at best to seek to exegete the original.
Along with your drive to learn the original languages, the best way to do it is with the guidance of a pastor that exegetes and teaches from the original languages.
This way he can provide wisdom as well to maintain the balance of the highest priorities in the Christian life with seminary level education.
Pat,
I agree. I also like the way Bill Mounce puts it...we are learning "Baby-Hebrew" so that we can more closely follow the train of thought in technical commentaries and things....NOT to decide that a "translation is wrong or right"....only so that we can evaluate certain things more carefully....
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Kevin...
Let me say a big thank you! for these videos.....!!
I really did get a glimpse into how to better use the tools I've purchased....
Much appreciated brother....
For myself, these are the types of videos I'm looking for...I know how to push buttons....now I need to know WHY I'm pushing those buttons... [:D]
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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