Is it really the Encyclopedia Britannica as we might of thought?
I don't want to stir up the pot here, but I wonder if what we have is not the real thing that some expected.
If you take a look at the Resource directory you may have a clue to the source of the data. The file name is COMPTONSENCY.logos4 and it is a size of 275,647 mb on my pc. Slightly larger than the ESVSB which is 217,672 mb.
I poked around and see that Britannica has a license to distribute Comjptons. Here is the web page from Britannica that describes Comptons:
http://www.britannica.com/topic/Comptons-by-Britannica
Also I am not seeing many photos just quickly scanning the text. Are images in Logos resources embedded in the resource or are they stored somewhere else?
If you look around at Amazon you can see references to a 26 volume set and I was wondering if this is what the basis for this resource is. It would appear that it is a set designed for high school students.
I think the resource would be helpful and interesting and may be worth the initial pre-pub price.
I have the Britannica DVD but don't have it loaded. I might load that up and check some of the articles against that source.
Comments
-
Bruce Roth said:
Are images in Logos resources embedded in the resource or are they stored somewhere else?
There's a separate resource for the videos: logosres:comptonsencymedia (note the resource name!).
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
0 -
The file names are suggestive, even conclusive. It would have helped enormously in creating proper expectations, if the Comptons derivation had been part of the narrative from the outset.
Grace and peace. <><
0 -
Bruce, whatever we got is not the Encyclopedia Britannica.
Compare the article on Aristotle to the online version. There is no comparison. We have the junior, junior, condensed and dumbed down version.
Faithlife, there were many questions from the start about what you were trying to sell. That should have given you pause to check what you were offering and make it abundantly clear. Instead, we got a screenshot of one portion of an article two or three days ago. That wasn't enough to go on. I kept faith, but have lost it all now.
I assume you will plead ignorance or something else, but selling this as the Encyclopedia Britannica is a disgrace.
Yes, I will use my right to return my purchase, but I am ashamed of FL right now. How could you NOT know that what you were delivering doesn't even begin to compare with what we see online?
Please do the upright thing and remove this resource from sale until you can straighten out what you are selling and then title it and describe it correctly.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
0 -
This is disturbing. I already have Compton's on CD and I did not give $99 for it. (More like $10.)Bruce Roth said:I poked around and see that Britannica has a license to distribute Comjptons. Here is the web page from Britannica that describes Comptons:
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
0 -
Super.Tramp said:
This is disturbing
"designed primarily for children and young people in the upper elementary grades and high school and for family use"
I'm going to just wait and see what Faithlife says but I'm really biting my tongue on this one...
Logos 10 | Dell Inspiron 7373 | Windows 11 Pro 64, i7, 16GB, SSD | iPhone 13 Pro Max
0 -
Just need to point this out in bold...
" a general reference designed primarily for children and young people in the upper elementary grades and high school "
0 -
That's..that's a bit shocking. When FL announced this product some months ago, I was very excited. I grew up using a complete set of EB for many years and thought this would be a dream come true to have the FULL version of it in Logos. However, when I noticed that very little information was actually shown about this pre-pub and the pre-pub price, I began to wonder if this is an edited version to only include articles pertaining to the study of the humanities and biblical / theological / philosophical subject matters. Still, that sounded pretty cool to have in Logos. I eventually dropped my pre-pub because I really wanted the complete edition of the EB, and a most current version too.
The pre-pub price indicated to me that it had to be a scaled down version of EB. Sounds like what was released was even less than an condensed version?
David
0 -
If I was a gambler, I'd bet the farm that Logos / Faithlife will make this right. One way or the other.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
Robert said:
It would have helped enormously in creating proper expectations, if the Comptons derivation had been part of the narrative from the outset.
What is comptons?
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
The articles in the kids encyclopedia look very familiar...
http://kids.britannica.com/comptons/article-9272668/A-a
[:S]
0 -
-
0 -
Mark Smith said:
Compare the article on Aristotle to the online version. There is no comparison. We have the junior, junior, condensed and dumbed down version.
That has been my view from reading the few articles I have... Noet is aimed at humanity students and I don't see this being much use beyond elementary school.
-Dan
EDIT: From the release page: “The Noet edition is unlike anything we’ve ever done before and represents a significant step forward for Encyclopaedia Britannica,” said Michael Ross, senior vice president and general manager of education at Encyclopaedia Britannica, Inc. “Noet offers the most advanced way to study the humanities, and Britannica offers some of the best reference articles available. Together, we’re helping students, teachers and researchers all over the world gain greater access to the trustworthy information they need.”
I find it bizarre to think these articles were written by the same people who have done the in depth articles from the encyclopedia.
EDIT2: From separate thread emphasis mine:
I'm pretty sure now it's this kid's edition:
I created a trial account with a fake address, and compared three full articles. EBNE is identical, just less links and less pictures.
0 -
Hi all,
Just wanted to put a quick note out here before heading to bed:
The file name comes from some confusion we had when we first licensed the product. There was a thought that we had licensed the Compton's version but later learned that it wasn't. However, it was too late to change the file names.
I plan to address some of the other concerns first thing in the morning.
Senior Director, Content Products
0 -
Ben Amundgaard said:
I plan to address some of the other concerns first thing in the morning.
I perhaps should wait but this seemed a prime example:
Foucault, Michel
(1926–84). French structuralist philosopher Michel Foucault was born in Poitiers. He studied in Paris under Marxist philosopher Louis Althusser and later taught at the University of Clermont-Ferrand from 1960 to 1968 and the Collège de France from 1970 to 1984. His early work concerned the history of mental illness and society’s response to it. Madness and Civilization (1961) is a study of society’s use of the concept of madness in the 17th century. Discipline and Punish: The Birth of the Prison (1975) is an examination of the origins of the modern penal system. His books argue that asylums and prisons are society’s devices for exclusion and that by surveying social attitudes toward these institutions, one can examine the development and uses of power.
“Foucault, Michel,” Encyclopedia Britannica Noet Edition (Chicago, IL: Encyclopaedia Britannica, 2015).This is an embarrassing short article on a very important 20th century figure from the humanities, it is extremely short compared to the wikipedia preamble pasted below.
Michel Foucault (French: [miʃɛl fuko]; born Paul-Michel Foucault) (15 October 1926 – 25 June 1984) was a French philosopher, historian of ideas, social theorist, philologist and literary critic. His theories addressed the relationship between power and knowledge, and how they are used as a form of social control through societal institutions. Though often cited as a post-structuralist and postmodernist, Foucault rejected these labels, preferring to present his thought as a critical history of modernity. His thought has been highly influential both for academic and for activist groups, such as within post-anarchism.[2]
Born in Poitiers, France, into an upper-middle-class family, Foucault was educated at the Lycée Henri-IV and then at the École Normale Supérieure, where he developed an interest in philosophy and came under the influence of his tutors Jean Hyppolite and Louis Althusser. After several years as a cultural diplomat abroad, he returned to France and published his first major book, The History of Madness. After obtaining work between 1960 and 1966 at the University of Clermont-Ferrand, he produced two more significant publications, The Birth of the Clinic and The Order of Things, which displayed his increasing involvement with structuralism, a theoretical movement in social anthropology from which he later distanced himself. These first three histories exemplified a historiographical technique Foucault was developing called "archaeology".
From 1966 to 1968, Foucault lectured at the University of Tunis, Tunisia, before returning to France, where he became head of the philosophy department at the new experimental university of Paris VIII. In 1970 he was admitted to the Collège de France, membership of which he retained until his death. He also became active in a number of left-wing groups involved in anti-racist campaigns, anti-human rights abuses movements, and the struggle for penal reform. He went on to publish The Archaeology of Knowledge, Discipline and Punish, and The History of Sexuality. In these books he developed archaeological and genealogical methods which emphasized the role which power plays in the evolution of discourse in society. Foucault died in Paris of neurological problems compounded by HIV/AIDS; he became the first public figure in France to die from the disease, and his partner Daniel Defert founded the AIDES charity in his memory.
-Dan
0 -
Hi Ben.
I would like to know why some of the articles do not seem to be cross-referenced. Where I am concerned, as are others, about the level of detail within the articles, I am also concerned about its usability as a logos resource.
For example:
Abbado, Claudio
(1933–2014). Italian-born orchestra conductor Claudio Abbado succeeded André Previn in 1979 as principal conductor of the London Symphony Orchestra (LSO), a group he had ...
Encyclopedia Britannica Noet Edition, 2015.
This snippet refers to Andre Previn. Previn also has an entry in the encyclopedia, and yet this reference is not hyper-linked to that entry. I could not simply click on Andre's name and go there, nor hover to see the article quickly. The very next article, 'Abbas, Mahmoud' talks about the PLO. Again, the PLO have an entry but it is not linked.
I saw a thread mentioning that full integration with the timeline tool had not happened yet ... Is this linking/tagging also a WIP, or is this how we would expected the resource to work ?
Thanks.
2017 15" MBP, iPad Pro
0 -
Jan Krohn said:
The articles in the kids encyclopedia look very familiar...
http://kids.britannica.com/comptons/article-9272668/A-a
Here's an example. Very similar.
0 -
I just tested 10 randomly chosen articles on the Britannica website. The articles I got from Comptons all matched the content of EBNE:
- http://kids.britannica.com/comptons/article-9344864/Albany-Law-School
- http://kids.britannica.com/comptons/article-9273203/Bhutan
- http://kids.britannica.com/comptons/article-9318970/Giovanni-Benedetto-Castiglione
- http://kids.britannica.com/comptons/article-9310783/Columba
- http://kids.britannica.com/comptons/article-9311080/Robert-S-Duncanson
- http://kids.britannica.com/comptons/article-9274428/Fredericton
- http://kids.britannica.com/comptons/article-9274957/housing
- http://kids.britannica.com/comptons/article-9275099/Islamic-literature
- http://kids.britannica.com/comptons/article-9315044/Jerry-Lee-Lewis
- http://kids.britannica.com/comptons/article-9329405/Bob-Mathias
As others have said the only difference is that the Noet edition has less media and fewer links (see that Castiglione and Duncanson articles for examples).
I simply do not understand why Faithlife has allowed this to happen. The content is clearly written for children, not for adults. The selection of articles clearly does not have Noet users in view.
If this product had been called Encyclopaedia Britannica for Teens (Logos Edition), or Comptons by Britannica, Logos Edition there would have been very few complaints (apart from the missing links). I'm afraid it's yet another case of Logos marketing significantly overblowing a new product to the point that many purchasers feel there has been misrepresentation. That harms Faithlife and the trust you work so hard to build up.
Even if you'd got carried away with the excitement of the initial marketing push, there was plenty of discussion about the content throughout the prepub period. Faithlife staff members were fully involved in that discussion, and had ample opportunity to mention the level of the articles and the link with Comptons. As someone else has said, the failure to do that now seems like smoke and mirrors.
We can buy Comptons for pennies. Of course the Logos edition has added value. From the marketing page: "Look up “John Calvin” in EBNE, find a reference to The Institutes, and with a click you’re taken straight to its full text." Really?
I know I can return the product and get my $100 back. I'll probably do that. But it will take longer to get my trust back.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
0 -
Mark Barnes said:
We can buy Comptons for pennies. Of course the Logos edition has added value. From the marketing page: "Look up “John Calvin” in EBNE, find a reference to The Institutes, and with a click you’re taken straight to its full text." Really?
By the way, can anyone confirm the other marketing promises?
[quote]Look up a biblical person, place, event, or date range in the Timeline, and Logos pulls together information drawn from EBNE and other resources in your library. In a glance you’ll make new connections between biblical events, people, and places.
I don't have access to the timeline. I've been thinking about a base package that includes the timeline just because of the EBNE, but that's more or less moot now...
[quote]
Encyclopedia Britannica Noet Edition includes contributions from notable scholars such as:
- Melinda S. Meade
- Eugene N. Parker
- Alice Sanderson Rivoire
- Christopher Sterling
- John B. Wilmeth
Still searching...
Mark Barnes said:I know I can return the product and get my $100 back. I'll probably do that. But it will take longer to get my trust back.
Considering the fact that it will still take 7 years until both my kids are in middle school, I'm probably not gonna do that. But I'm still quite irritated...
I'm wondering whether FL is gonna able to sell a single license at full price now...
0 -
Jan Krohn said:
By the way, can anyone confirm the other marketing promises? Look up a biblical person, place, event, or date range in the Timeline, and Logos pulls together information drawn from EBNE and other resources in your library. In a glance you’ll make new connections between biblical events, people, and places.
I don't have access to the timeline. I've been thinking about a base package that includes the timeline just because of the EBNE, but that's more or less moot now...
It is not possible to confirm this at this point in time because Logos released this before the software was ready to handle this:
Ben Amundgaard said:One quick note on this: because we wanted to get this out to people as fast as possible, we're shipping it before the software update that will expose LCV and Timeline data. This update should ship within ~2 weeks of the resource's ship date. It shouldn't affect things too much, but I wanted to give you a heads up.
https://community.logos.com/forums/p/116686/766286.aspx#766286
0 -
Add me to the list poised to get refund, this is not what I expected at all. Given all the requests for information, it's incredible IMHO that "Oops we forgot to tell you it was Compton's" didn't EVER come up. The difference in articles is huge, and what appears to be very untrustworthy.
Waiting for Faithlife response, they deserve at least a chance to respond.
0 -
Mark Barnes said:
I simply do not understand why Faithlife has allowed this to happen. The content is clearly written for children, not for adults.
Wow, I find this hard to believe but the evidence is mounting. How could this happen?
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
0 -
Mark Barnes said:
I simply do not understand why Faithlife has allowed this to happen. The content is clearly written for children, not for adults. The selection of articles clearly does not have Noet users in view.
Mark Barnes said:I know I can return the product and get my $100 back. I'll probably do that. But it will take longer to get my trust back.
Describes how I feel about this. I was excited about the project, but I am baffled seeing what has been delivered.
0 -
I pulled out last minute for financial reasons, but I am glad I did from the looks of things.
For book reviews and more visit sojotheo.com
0 -
$99 for MSRP is still too high.
This should be in Vyrso for $2.99
0 -
mike said:
This should be in Vyrso for $2.99
I understand what you are trying to say but don't you think that's a bit harsh - especially in bold?
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
0 -
I feel that I may have to ask for a refund as well as some of the others that have expressed that feeling. As Mark stated I can't see how this product could of got released without some questions from staff. If I worked at Faithlife and saw that the EB was coming, I would try to look at some of the articles as it would of been of interest to me. I would probably notice that these articles were not the EB that I was expecting and would raise some questions to the product group.
I think FL needs to be proactive in dealing with its customers that purchased this product. Perhaps an email to each of the individuals explaining what the product really is and offering at the least a refund.
Change the product page to reflect what the product really is. I can't see how anyone would be willing to pay $499 for the product that is a young persons version of the EB.
0 -
Bruce Dunning said:
I understand what you are trying to say but don't you think that's a bit harsh - especially in bold?
Funny. I am not sure that the sellers on Amazon are really selling the whole set, but there are listings there for $2.38 for the 2004 version. Add $3.99 for shipping and you have something close to that $2.99 price.
http://www.amazon.com/Comptons-by-Encyclopedia-Britannica/dp/1593392370
0 -
Remind me, how many days do we have to return a product?
0 -
Keith Larson said:
Remind me, how many days do we have to return a product?
Officially, 30 days. https://www.logos.com/support/return
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
0 -
Mark Barnes said:
If this product had been called Encyclopaedia Britannica for Teens (Logos Edition), or Comptons by Britannica, Logos Edition there would have been very few complaints (apart from the missing links).
I agree. That's how it should have been marketed. And that would have been fine.
mike said:$99 for MSRP is still too high.
The price isn't that off for what it is. It's just marketed to the wrong group. This price is comparable to other young people's encyclopedia.
0 -
Randy W. Sims said:
The price isn't that off for what it is. It's just marketed to the wrong group. This price is comparable to other young people's encyclopedia.
$99 isn't the MSRP, that was the prepub price. It's now $499.95, which is inexcusable.
It should have been $50 for prepub and $99.95 now.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
0 -
Bruce Roth said:
Funny. I am not sure that the sellers on Amazon are really selling the whole set, but there are listings there for $2.38 for the 2004 version. Add $3.99 for shipping and you have something close to that $2.99 price.
http://www.amazon.com/Comptons-by-Encyclopedia-Britannica/dp/1593392370
thank you [:P]
0 -
It's an old old version of Britanica right?
גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה
0 -
John Goodman said:
It's an old old version of Britanica right?
No, it's an up-to-date youth version.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
0 -
Mark Barnes said:
$99 isn't the MSRP, that was the prepub price. It's now $499.95, which is inexcusable.
Agreed.
Mark Barnes said:It should have been $50 for prepub and $99.95 now.
And I doubt it would have ever emerged from prepub if properly described.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
0 -
-
I wanted to acknowledge that we've seen this thread and are trying to get to the bottom of this. We'll reply as soon as we have clarity.
0 -
Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:
I wanted to acknowledge that we've seen this thread and are trying to get to the bottom of this. We'll reply as soon as we have clarity.
A wise response.
0 -
Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:
I wanted to acknowledge that we've seen this thread and are trying to get to the bottom of this. We'll reply as soon as we have clarity.
Thanks Phil. [Y]
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:
I wanted to acknowledge that we've seen this thread and are trying to get to the bottom of this. We'll reply as soon as we have clarity.
Glad to hear this Phil. I would rather that Faithlife "get to the bottom of this," as you put it, than employees posting potentially conflicting responses or having the information provided change multiple times. This is a good first step. Having Bob chime in here at some point would be a good second (or third, if need be) step. I am trying to withhold judgement until I know what Faithlife's official response will be, but I am currently having difficulty seeing the benefit to keeping this resource rather than returning it.
0 -
Looks like this will be the first resource I've ever returned. Ill wait a bit still, but I was leary from the start. Knowing what full encyclopedias cost (especially good ones) the $99 seemed ok. But to get this.. well I like Mike's $2.99 price.
0 -
If I had to guess this is the result of internal miscommunications both at Logos and E.B..
If not however, I too am disappointed.L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
0 -
abondservant said:
If I had to guess this is the result of internal miscommunications both at Logos and E.B..
This certainly does seem to be the case. What's worrying, however, is why that wasn't picked up prior to release.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
0 -
Well users were asking for a long time for sample pages etc. It seems like Logos clearly had no idea what they were getting and just sold everyone on "marketing" and shiny objects -- and they had no idea what they were selling.
0 -
I too am disappointed by what we got. This looks like the first purchase of mine that will be returned for a refund. I will wait to hear back from Faithlife first.
0 -
Yes, I am hoping that Faithlife got duped by the Britannica people, and then they accidentally duped us. I VERY HIGHLY doubt Faithlife would intentionally hide the very information that would have prevented many of us from purchasing this.
Logos 10 | Dell Inspiron 7373 | Windows 11 Pro 64, i7, 16GB, SSD | iPhone 13 Pro Max
0 -
James Taylor said:
Yes, I am hoping that Faithlife got duped by the Britannica people, and then they accidentally duped us.
Personally, I doubt anyone deliberately duped anyone else.
Don't forget Hanlon's razor.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
0 -
I was really surprised at this resource and also plan to return it. I am waiting for Phil and others to 'get to the bottom of this', but this clearly is not only not ready to be in logos (while there may be some links, I have seen none), it also was not what was advertised, and not worth what I spent to have it
0 -
Logos 10 | Dell Inspiron 7373 | Windows 11 Pro 64, i7, 16GB, SSD | iPhone 13 Pro Max
0
