Logos has overtaken Accordance for good
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I first bought Starter (version 10) at an Accordance seminar in Gothenburg, Sweden in April 2013. Prior to that I had agreed about the purchase of a used copy of UBS Translator's Handbooks NT set in Accordance for $90 + the license transfer fee $25.
I have added what I need, several of the items I added were not and may never be available in Logos.Most of the value of I've added are commentaries. The commentaries I have in Accordance now cover the entire Bible, including the Deuterocanon, including 4 Ezra (and 1 Enoch).
I've added several items used in Accordance in a swap where someone wanted Logos items from now.
I've also added Library 8 Standard Level (so it's version 8), which I got pretty cheap from ebay, You can see how it differs from other version 8 collections at this link: http://www.accordancebible.com/archive/blog/2008/06/library-8-and-scholars-8-now-available.html ... unfortunately it didn't contain NA27 Greek New Testament. If it would have been version 9 it would have contained the NA27 Greek New Testament, which is very cheap to upgrade to NA28.So Accordance does have quite good dynamic pricing on some items, namely upgrade for for example greek and hebrew to new Editions:
David Medina said:Much have been said about the Accordance $50 entry package as a "good deal". I think those who think so are focusing in the "price" instead of what they are really getting. That "starter package is just a paid trial. When I bought the Accordance Starter Package I had to upgrade within days because I realize that it was pretty much useless for me as a Bible study tool.
For those who really like Accordance and just want to "get in" into Accordance it may be a good deal.
Let be honest, to be able to make the most out of either Logos or Accordance you need to invest on resources. Otherwise you will not benefit much from what they can do for us. They both shine when you have the right resources.
That's a huge advantage of Accordance:David Medina said:Specially because its small footprint, speed and not been dependent of wi fi connection.
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I am sorry Unix, but to be clear, Accordance does not have Dynamic pricing.
They do honor what you paid on a collection packages only. But if you buy one volume of a multi volume Commentary they will not do any kind of dynamic pricing like Logos does unless you buy the set within a month of purchasing the single volume.
Believe, I have tried and it has been brought up in their forum and they made it clear that it is too complicated for them to do dynamic pricing the way that Logos does.
Accordance does not offer a refund policy either. If you purchase something and then you do not like or it is not what you expected it you cannot return it.
They also don't have community pricing or pre-pub which save us money.
They do have special discounts for some types of users which is nice. But I wish they would implement dynamic pricing and refunds.
And they do have great support.
They are a small company and that has its benefits as well as limitations.
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Dan, but only two of the Bibles in their starter package are fragged... and both are KJV... .
Dan Bible Software are meant to do complex searches among many volume of information. Either one which no resources has very limited usefulness. I can do what you suggest with my paper Bible and a paper dictionary and if I need to go deeper there are many FREE resources that would help me. I think I get more free stuff from Olive tree app or Glo Bible or Blue Letter Bible.
After all, if we are looking just for a meaningful spiritual life I ONLY need the Word of God and abide in Him.
But for those interested into getting into any of these softwares consider the mobile apps as both Logos and Accordance offer many free resources.
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David Medina said:
After all, if we are looking just for a meaningful spiritual life I ONLY need the Word of God and abide in Him.
But for those interested into getting into any of these softwares consider the mobile apps as both Logos and Accordance offer many free resources.
I use my friend as an example.... She is Christian, she wants the Bible on her phone, she is adamant about it using no data. She has a weakness for the poet nature of the KJV, but also took some greek in university and wants to see the underlying word behind the translation. Her modern preference is NRSV. As prudent as she is with her money I do not see her spending much on her Bible. She is one of generation that doesn't want a paper Bible/dictionary. Indeed she has a copy of the Oxford NRSV Access Bible and a KJV and that is all she has at home. I would love to recommend for her Logos, but seeing as she will not use Data on her phone, I need to recommend her something that is contained. Also one that will give her the chance to add the basic resources she will want at a reasonable price. I am one of those rare creatures that values Biblical study works above vacations and many of the other luxuries. But I realize I am a minority. In my friends case where she is barely scraping by on her income I understand her reluctance to spend. Her complaint looking at Logos mobile was it was too slow and didn't do much offline. I will have her look at the Olivetree APP as I didn;t realize it had so many free resources before.
-Dan
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On very few select items they have dynamic pricing if You have the preceding Edition, such as Hebrew and Greek Bibles. It's a good example, because Logos doesn't have dynamic pricing if You have NA27 and want to upgrade to NA28:
David Medina said:I am sorry Unix, but to be clear, Accordance does not have Dynamic pricing.
They do honor what you paid on a collection packages only. But if you buy one volume of a multi volume Commentary they will not do any kind of dynamic pricing like Logos does unless you buy the set within a month of purchasing the single volume.
No they don't, but that's actually a benefit. I 've bought a lot in Logos thinking I have the ability to return, but in reality I've had time to evaluate and return far less than I though, so I've ended up spending more, and spending on a few items that I really regret. Also, if the money for a base package upgrade on November 20. 2012 would have been withdrawn from my debit card at once, I would have ended up with a higher base-package than I wanted, luckily enough the sales rep did some error and no money was withdrawn and when he asked for the payment several months later I was able to cancel the higher base-package only keeping the lower upgrade level (which still is far from being among my best purchases). If I would have thought of it a year longer I would not have upgraded at all within the generic base-packages. So I barely got away with a moderate investment in books which I could have bought individually instead:David Medina said:Accordance does not offer a refund policy either. If you purchase something and then you do not like or it is not what you expected it you cannot return it.
They have the equivalent system as pre-pubs except it's better: whenever there's a new release it's discounted in the beginning and immediately available. So the price is competitive. Logos pre-pub orders are far from immediately available altough some items nowadays ship fairly quickly. Many times Accordance ships the same items faster:David Medina said:They also don't have community pricing or pre-pub which save us money.
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I am a long time Logos user and have recently bought into Accordance. I really like both applications a lot and their very different approaches to Bible Study. To me, the compliment each other well and some of the gaps I had in my Logos library were filled in Accordance.
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Well it looks like Accordance 11 is being released...and the price of the Starter package has jumped 20%.
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It's newer software. This update makes it the most current Bible Study software available - to be released in a few days:
Erik said:the price of the Starter package has jumped 20%.
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Technically, if you already bought the Starter package, you can buy it again for $50. I view that as a major, major bargain. I checked all the resources I already have, and it looks pretty exciting.
I guess I'm still enamored with Logos' approach of a free engine, a great price on new tools/datasets, and interesting new collections (Logos6). Plus the real biggie ... with Logos I can download my books!! With A-Company, I've yet to succeed, even after they fixed it. But not to complain ... Garmin has trouble delivering too. The internet is so new.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Erik said:
Well it looks like Accordance 11 is being released...and the price of the Starter package has jumped 20%.
They have also included some more resources, so the increase is justified. It would be nice it Logos would offer a $60 package. I am sure that would generate a lot more business.
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Tony Thomas said:Erik said:
Well it looks like Accordance 11 is being released...and the price of the Starter package has jumped 20%.
They have also included some more resources, so the increase is justified. It would be nice it Logos would offer a $60 package. I am sure that would generate a lot more business.
The new resources aren't very exciting...four foreign language bibles and two English resources (Dr. J's Bible Study Methods and Treasury of Scripture Knowledge). I'm inclined to think that the Logos setup that has been highlighted with the NAS bundle is really a better deal (assuming they ever get the pricing on that sorted out).
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Yeah, at $299, it is not a great deal at all. Still, at least Accordance has a package for well below $100 that gives you a basic set of study tools to get started. For Logos, I used to point people to the Nelson Essential Bible Study bundle or the NAS bundle, but those options have disappeared. I might add that for $199, Accordance's Bible Study package blows Logos Starter out of the water. The included Tyndale Commentaries set is worth the price of admission alone. Plus, it now adds the aforementioned NAS package that Logos now wants $299 for for. Logos really needs to beef up Starter and add a low-cost package.
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Logos has stated (BOB) that $299 price point was set to cover costs associated with users. Now Logos does not require a base package but buying say a Bible and a Bible dictionary alone is not encouraged. Logos agues that Faithlife is free and indeed it has good resources, but if you move to the computer you find out out you have no greek hebrew support. Logos considers itself the Cadillac of Biblical software an ultra low end product dose not fit in. Yes they are magnanimous enough to offer freely the Faithlife Study Bundle, but when all is said and done it is a marketing tool for Logos. You are constantly encountering links to Logos products and I am sure the hope is it will lead you not only to a deeper faith in Christ but most assuredly to purchasing a base package or at least several larger resources. We know that the NAS is a mistake. It would have been nice if Phil had stated what the right price was suppose to be ($29.99 makes sense since it was the MSRP). But again bigger question WHY IS THE PRICE STILL $299 it has been over a week since a Logos official told us it was a mistake and would be corrected. I have seen price mistakes pointed out and fixed in under an hour, so something smells fishy to me.
-Dan
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Dan, an even bigger problem is: why has the 1995 NASU been severely dated for many years, at least since L4 came out?
The RSV is a much more scholarly and upt-to-date, supported English Bible with lots of tools: UBS Handbooks, Comfort New Testament Text and Translation Commentary, numerous monographs, a Reverse Interlinear (for the NT) which can be purchased separately - no base-packages or Minimal Crossgrades necessary. Oh plus Accordance plus the printed matter market offer Comprehensive New Testament / Comprehensive Bible by Clontz.Disclosure!
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The Libronix version was $29.95 list and I believe I paid less than that when I bought it. Why they would sell it for 10X list is beyond me!
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I know little about the RSV, but much of the scripture I've memorized is in nasb 95. Certainly all of my studies of scripture as an undergraduate were done in the nasb 95. It would take a significant amount of demonstrated proof that RSV is better. Till then I'll chalk up your statement as preference.Unix said:Dan, an even bigger problem is: why has the 1995 NASU been severely dated for many years, at least since L4 came out?
The RSV is a much more scholarly and upt-to-date, supported English Bible with lots of tools: UBS Handbooks, Comfort New Testament Text and Translation Commentary, numerous monographs, a Reverse Interlinear (for the NT) which can be purchased separately - no base-packages or Minimal Crossgrades necessary. Oh plus Accordance plus the printed matter market offer Comprehensive New Testament / Comprehensive Bible by Clontz.
I currently prefer ESV. I could as easily say its far better than the dated RSV - parts of which were published in the 1940s. Even the NRSV (1989) is dated by comparison. ESV in some senses is the updated version of the NRSV.L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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I believe UNIX's idea is that NASB either 77 or 95 tends to put into the translation many verses that most modern translation removes. These are bracket with square brackets and annotate it to point out for lack of evidence. The RSV's NT was last updated in 1972. The ESV is merely a mild revision updating of the RSV I think it is fine but find it motives somewhat suspect (i.e. Isaiah 7:14, translation as Virgin). Please note i do not deny Christ's virginal conception or the fact Isaiah 7 is a prophecy pointing to Christ. But I do not need to force the text and possible remove the more immediate fulfilment Isaiah may have had in mind.
-Dan
PS: An example that seems uncontroversial would be the Lord's Prayer's embellishment.
13 ‘And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from bevil. *[For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.]’
*This clause not found in early mss
New American Standard Bible: 1995 Update (LaHabra, CA: The Lockman Foundation, 1995), Mt 6:13.
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The tools I mentioned make the RSV fully current at least for the New Testament part - there's no reason whatsoever to use the ESV as the only advantage of the ESV (for those that because of convenience don't look up the textual matters) was the newer textual basis in the New Testament. There are also important paper books on important books of the Bible that deal with in which verse the RSV or the NRSV is better (the author was on the translation team) - even on a clause level: such as William L. Holladay (1990). JEREMIAH reading the prophet in his time - and ours. Fortress Press (180 pages). ... which I'm reading through right now cover-to-cover and the prof said it's a tremendously good summary. It's a fascinating book of the Bible. This book is fully up-to-date.
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Erik said:
Well it looks like Accordance 11 is being released...and the price of the Starter package has jumped 20%.
With Version 11 (Note I am not a beta tester, only know what has been shared in official channels.) Accordance follows Logos in offering a passage guide (under the name Info Pane). OT also did this in there own "Passage Guide" called Resource Guide. Indeed WS mobile App has tried to implement something PGish but it fails on most every level. One can say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery if so Logos should feel very flattered. I do know OT RG is nice in that it functions fully offline for mobile platforms but who knows one day our Faithlife mobile APPS may gain this function.
-Dan
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JoshInRI said:
Does any version allow me to use a picker to get to a book, chapter, and verse? I continue to marvel at how some basic functionality is missing in Logos 5.x. The basic desktop is coming along but is still rife with ads (yes I know I can turn them off) - but no real plethora of useful devotional material. Sigh.
That would take forever, why would you want to navigate the Bibles like that?
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David ... is it true about the rumor concerning the job offer for you at Logos? Just (as usual) joking. 'Touch screen'. A good verse picker is a blessing in church on Sunday morning.
Plus a picker that allows backtracking in a chapter or book (like OliveTree) is even faster (hint, hint to the Logos iOSians).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Denise said:
David ... is it true about the rumor concerning the job offer for you at Logos? Just (as usual) joking. 'Touch screen'. A good verse picker is a blessing in church on Sunday morning.
Plus a picker that allows backtracking in a chapter or book (like OliveTree) is even faster (hint, hint to the Logos iOSians).
Even on sunday morning shortcut typing is loads faster than picking. And backtracking in a chapter you would just scroll.....
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I have both Accordance and Logos, and believe Accordance is far superior for careful study of the original languages, while Logos is superior in the number of books it offers. If I could only use one or the other, I would definitely go with Accordance, but I don't need to, so I use both of them for their respective strengths. Logos does a better job marketing itself, though, and is therefore a far bigger company.
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First of all that thread is ancient.KJB1611 said:I have both Accordance and Logos, and believe Accordance is far superior for careful study of the original languages, while Logos is superior in the number of books it offers. If I could only use one or the other, I would definitely go with Accordance, but I don't need to, so I use both of them for their respective strengths. Logos does a better job marketing itself, though, and is therefore a far bigger company.
Secondly, is that something you really need to post on a Logos forum?
If you like Accordance better go post your sentiments on their forum.
I've tried it, and didn't like it as well, nor olive tree - picker included.L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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Denise said:
I'd agree with many of your points. I was looking forward to the Accordance Windows version, having listened to the Accordance users. I wasn't wildly happy-fied. Plus the iOS app is a pain. I'd say the Logos app is far better.
That said, for new users and friends, I'd probably recommend Olive Tree first, and if the person likes to delve into the languages a bit, then Accordance. Most people have others things they need to do in their lives. Both are developing a nice set of Bible resources and both easy to pick up, along with other of life's travails.
Happy-fied? My new word of the month. Cool.
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KJB1611 said:
Logos does a better job marketing itself, though, and is therefore a far bigger company.
For myself, it is not marketing that drives me and my acquaintances to Logos - it's resources. There are many of us for whom "careful study of the original languages" is not a major consideration. In fact, although I enjoy linguistic considerations, I know enough to let the real experts do real original language research. In our particular language department in Graduate school to measure if someone had really mastered a language we'd ask - do you have it in your bathroom[;)] A nearby department used "do you have dreams in language x" as the criteria ... but they had more spoken languages and fewer dead ones.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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To each their own.
Blessed with some additional "professional resources" funds at my previous church, I bought Accordance last Fall as an original language supplement after being told how much faster, easier and superior it was/is than Logos. That's what people keep saying, even on this forum.
Regardless... thus far, Accordance has been a disappointment. For instance, just a simple mouseover in Logos 6 yields more results via the information panel than even multiple click attempts on the same word in Accordance, not to mention than Accordance's "instant display", which is downright paltry in comparison. (For that matter, I've even found Bibleworks to be superior to Accordance.)
While I'm not a "linguist", I am a pastor with an earned DMin and MDiv level training in Greek and Hebrew. I find Logos gives me seamless access to both my commentaries and language tools as I use both on an almost daily basis. Btw, both Morris Proctor and John Fallahee have helped me tremendously to leverage Logos practically and effectively both in sermon preparation for expository messages and in my pastoral ministry. (Perhaps these two men were/are the catalyst, at least in part, for Logos's new wave of training videos over the last year or so. And, yes, I'm aware of and familiar with Accordance training videos. Very kind, capable folk, demonstrating an excellent program but I keep finding myself thinking, I can do "that" better, faster -- and deeper -- with Logos. Plus, the verbal interaction of other users is counter-productive more often than not.)
I'll continue to try to grow in my ability with Accordance since I have it and realize I'm not maximizing its functionality, but Logos keeps giving me reasons to keep putting off that quest.
So, KJB, while you have the freedom to promote another product's being "far superior" in an area than Logos, know that there are others who disagree with you.
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Being an extremely long user of both Logos Mac and Accordance I will say each have definite strengths. This article i believed delved into them fairly well if I remember correctly (I did not review the entire thread this morning). If i had to choose between the two Accordance would win out for several reasons, that said I am very happy to have both and use both.
-Dan
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Dan Francis said:
(I did not review the entire thread this morning)
This thread lay dormant for a year until KJB1611 resurrected it.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Super.Tramp said:Dan Francis said:
(I did not review the entire thread this morning)
This thread lay dormant for a year until KJB1611 resurrected it.
Know that very well, which is why I intentionally tried to make as brief a statement as possible with no arguments really, I thought if it was petted gently it might go back to sleep.
-Dan
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I use both and am happy with both. Vive la difference!
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I only have Logos. I have heard for years that Accordance is better for original languages stuff, but I don't know that I have ever seen any specifics as to why that is. I have never had a languages task that I could not accomplish in Logos. Granted, different users have different needs, but I never found languages to be an area in which Logos was lacking.
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Accordance has always been a Mac program whereas Logos from its very beginnings was designed for Windows and only lately been available to Mac users. In my opinion, Logos still has some catching up to do on the Mac side.
Having said that, I use Logos and have used it since the old Library System (LLS) and have no intention of spending ministry money on Accordance. And by the way, Accordance is now competing on the Windows side. I wonder how well they'll do there? [:)]
In Christ,
Charles
2017 27" iMac 5K, Mojave, 10.5" iPad Pro, iPhone 7+, iPhone 8, iOS 12.0, Catalina beta, iPadOS Beta
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One area where I would like to see competition in the near future is the map capability. I don't mean books with maps, but something similar to Google earth/map or other net maps: fast, detailed, accurate, easy to use, and user editable. Having a direct link from the text to the location visible on the map. Having user selectable geographic layers and time period layers. (The current Atlas in Logos serves as a warning example, sorry for my opinion!)
Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 11
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As I have been a Logos 6 user and had my first day using Logos now, it appears that logos is heading in a really really nice direction. They are improving beyond L6. I was looking into Accordance because a friend of mine is looking to buy his first bible software for seminary. He came to me and said, sell me on Logos, why should I buy it? I was watching Accordance 11 on youtube, the newest version, to see its features, how it looks and what it does. I am not going to kick Accordance at all as it seems to be a nice software, but for the latest version of it, I was not really that impressed.
Yes I can see the lightning fast search results is still there that I have always come to envy, but I'm not really too excited the way it looks. It seems to be trying too hard to be "mac"ie so to speak. It looks like I have opened system preferences on my mac and am fine tuning my mac.
I really have been using Logos now for the day, a few hours, and love the way it is laid out, the U.I. looks really slick and improved. I know companies look closely at what their closest competition does and how and why their customers love it. This is done down to tearing it apart and immersing yourself in the product. No companies admit to this practice but it is done and Logos and Accordance are no different. Suffice it to say, as I watched some of these video features, Accordance seems to have copied Logos' Explorer and they call it "info pane" and it does similarly the same thing. It does say it displays every book in the library that has relevant information regarding the text you are searching. Quick Entry seems a copy of Logos' search feature. When you enter a search, you begin to type it out and before you are finished it gives words close to what you are typing and you can scroll down to the topic you wanted, Logos does this already in L6. Although the speed in Accordance in this is instant! Logos can take time on some things.
I'm know we will be really impressed with Logos 7. However, the old idea that accordance is for original language bible study and Logos is an e-reader, is really not relevant at all any longer. My friend told me this what his accordance friends tell him. Again, I'm sure Logos looked at bible works and what Accordance does in original languages and developed their own. Now, it seems Logos has really far exceeded what original language bible study can be and is not content at leaving it there. They are developing new tools to save us time in analyzing the biblical text.
Plus you have the vast tagged library for other studies. Seems that Accordance is now expanding its library. Accordance seems to be more expensive as well in regards to what they are giving you. Friends of mine complain about that with Accordance, and they say the mobile app is not as well done as Logos' mobile app. They like that logos' app does not require you to download your books for mobile app use if you have wifi. What I did like about accordance is the wonderful colors in their maps. Maybe Logos will fix this in the L7 release.
Today it does seem that Logos is in new territory that has never been discovered. I say that as a user of Logos Now and compare that to the Accordance 11 videos I have been watching on youtube. Accordance 11 is the latest and greatest foray for Accordance and it does not really leave me saying man, I want all that. Logos seems to be pioneering new features that are really impressive. However, I know they have heard this before, Logos do not overlook the small stuff. Give us the speed of Accordance in searching! This may be a small thing but those small things do matter to us.
Well this is way too long, and I have missed several things/features I also found in accordance vs Logos, and won't write that here so I can end. While I know Logos has bit of a learning curve due to all the facets of it capabilities it is well worth an investment and a serious look into. Continue the great work FL and the team at Logos.
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I failed to mention all the tutorials that Logos posts on youtube, many available at all times to look and learn. The dedicated staff they have specifically to the development of denominational works, i.e., Anglican, Catholic, Seventh day Adventist, Reformed, etc., and many others. I did not mention the benefits of Vyrso, Verbum, Proclaim and Faithlife groups; Vryso free books, Logos free books, free collections from time to time, and amazing deep discounts offered, i.e., the Zondervan discount that recently ended. Maybe Accordance has this or maybe not. Think Logos has a wealth of information in its offering and for the money, what you get with Logos goes so much further than what Accordance offers you. I did not mention the features the iOS or Android app Logos has and the features it can do in comparison to Accordance. Ok, getting long again. I think I've had too much cool aid.
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I am a user of both OliveTree and Logos. I have a large library in Logos and I appreciate its original language and search ability. My own experience is that Logos search is most valuable on resources such as journals, sermons, theology (such as Barth Church Dogmatics), and monographs. However, on OT, Zondervan resources are often sold for half price, and that price difference made it economical. The new OT app is also very fast and slick. OT has Japanese Bible, while on Logos it is stuck in pre-pub. MacArthur commentaries and Application Bible notes are often sold for half price, but it is not available in Logos. I enjoy Thomas Constable Expository Note: on OT they have his 2014 version; on Logos they are still selling his 2003 version. Personally, I buy commentaries at whichever Bible e-book sellers that offer me the cheapest deal, while for other types of resources I tend to stick with Logos.
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Moody and Logos are out of sorts, evidently. Fortunately, I got the MTNCs available before the rift. If I were you, Paul, I'd snap up whatever from Moody you like on OT platform lest Moody and OT get crossways ala Faithlife and OT. Shame both companies worked together before but can't now. Lose-Lose for the kingdom. Just to get thread back on topic... Not sure if Accordance has same issues with Moody and thus cause one to choose Accordance over Logos. Would be interested to read your take on Logos vs. OT capabilities -- but -- that would be another thread, now wouldn't it.[;)]
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Ben Bush said:
Not sure if Accordance has same issues with Moody and thus cause one to choose Accordance over Logos. Would be interested to read your take on Logos vs. OT capabilities -- but -- that would be another thread, now wouldn't it.
This tif is fully a Faithlife/Moody one... I remember people asking about Moody and hearing there was no issues with Moody there. Indeed Olivetree and Bible WordSearch still have all their moody titles. OT has even released new Moody titles recently. I am not saying there is any fault with either party we were obviously not told everything but we did get the information that Moody was wanting higher royalty rates. For whatever reason the two could not come to terms and have parted ways, and we had been told we wouldn't likely see Moody titles back anytime soon if ever. FL could well be in talks and have the titles back tomorrow. But people outside FL/Moody are unlikely to know anything before a deal is made. I am not holding my breath to see them back together anytime soon, but strange things do happen.
-Dan
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Shalom!
Is it possible to buy separate resources from Accordance or do you have to pay for the software (i.e. buy a starter collection)?
I've downloaded the demo in the past and though it's a good program I very much prefer Logos. I'd like to know the answer just in case I ever come across a resource that I cannot buy in Logos.
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H.-J.van der Wal said:
Shalom!
Is it possible to buy separate resources from Accordance or do you have to pay for the software (i.e. buy a starter collection)?
Why not enquire on the Accordance forum?
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H.-J.van der Wal said:
Is it possible to buy separate resources from Accordance or do you have to pay for the software (i.e. buy a starter collection)?
You have to buy the starter collection. If you go through the checkout process, it will tell you that modules require a package before you pay, but that information is not on the module pages themselves.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Dan Francis said:
.... OT has even released new Moody titles recently.
If I'm not mistaken, Faithlife has done the same - just not on Logos, but on Vyrso.com. The contracts for this platform seem to follow the general way such contracts are done between publishers and ebook-retailers, and Moody and Faithlife (as well as Abingdon and Faithlife) seem to be on friendly terms there. It seems they think 'it doesn't matter whether we send that ePub file to one more address once we made it' (in fact, it costs them nothing and may bring some royalties down the road or at least visibility).
My guess is that other bible software maybe is seen as akin to "yet another ebook reader" (i.e. in the Vyrso-league) by Moody and other publishers who are reluctant to support Logos exactly because it's the leader of the pack, provides new usage opportunities for users (with the tagging applied) and makes the publishers nervous about the whole dead-tree-business.
Have joy in the Lord!
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Shalom!
Mark Barnes said:that information is not on the module pages themselves.
Thank you for your answer, Mark!
Ted Hans said:Why not enquire on the Accordance forum?
Because I have no intention of actually buying their software. Even my hypothetical interest has now ceased.
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NB.Mick said:
My guess is that other bible software maybe is seen as akin to "yet another ebook reader" (i.e. in the Vyrso-league) by Moody and other publishers who are reluctant to support Logos exactly because it's the leader of the pack, provides new usage opportunities for users (with the tagging applied) and makes the publishers nervous about the whole dead-tree-business.
I agree very much with your first phrase (Vyrso is "yet another ebook reader"), but not the rest of it.
The reason some publishers are reluctant to go with Logos (but are happy with Vyrso) is nothing to do with the fact that it's the leader of the pack. It's because there's a huge difference between the way Logos and Vyrso contracts are drawn up.
With Logos, Faithlife become the electronic publisher of the resource, and pay the print publisher a percentage of sales as a royalty (which might only be 15%, though a few important resources are much higher). Prices are generally determined by Faithlife, in agreement with the publisher. Faithlife are responsible for producing the digital file and the marketing copy.
With Vyrso, Faithlife become the reseller of the resource, and they keep a small percentage of the sale as a fee, and pass all of the rest back to the publisher. Prices are generally determined by the publisher. The publisher is responsible for producing the file and the marketing copy.
Under the Logos model, the publisher is treated rather like the author is in traditional publishing. They have far less say over production and marketing, and they receive only a small percentage of the sales receipts. Not all publishers are happy with this. Indeed, not all of them will have contracts with authors that even allow it.
Other Bible software publishers don't have this two-tier model, and perhaps are more flexible with individual publishers. But on the whole, I think it's the right approach from Logos. Logos tagging is usually much better than that in other packages (funded by the higher percentage they retain), and publishers still have a zero-tagging option if they want to keep a higher percentage of sales. From a users point of view the division means we know what we're getting before we purchase.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Vyrso only has 64 titles from Moody Publishing. And some titles that originally had come out in Vyrso has disappeared (for a few weeks or days verse did sell the new Moody Bible Atlas). So even in the world of eBooks there is not a huge selection in the FL world.
-Dan
PS:Going back to another question on ACC. The program purchase is required but starts $60 for program and books. I will not list contents because anyone wanting more info can easily find that out, but wanted to make sure it was not to be thought that packages were starting out at the $300 like Logos' are.
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Correct, the packages do not even begin to compare.Dan Francis said:Vyrso only has 64 titles from Moody Publishing. And some titles that originally had come out in Vyrso has disappeared (for a few weeks or days verse did sell the new Moody Bible Atlas). So even in the world of eBooks there is not a huge selection in the FL world.
-Dan
PS:Going back to another question on ACC. The program purchase is required but starts $60 for program and books. I will not list contents because anyone wanting more info can easily find that out, but wanted to make sure it was not to be thought that packages were starting out at the $300 like Logos' are.
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Yes but some people are fine with $60 package with ESV strongs/ modern one volume commentary/ modern bible dictionary/ KJV strongs / dozen or so classic resources. In fact that is what FL is missing. The use to have something similar in the NASB library. But that is no more and now the AMG library is about as close as you will get. I would say a $300 accordance package has a similar value maybe even a bit more than a Logo starter. But I prefer to see each having a good value and it's better uses. In many ways Logos is a Swiss Army knife and accordance is more like a pocket knife only a couple of blades and a can opener but much easier to handle. This is of course an over simplification since both are powerful tools with many tools.
Dan
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Rev. 14:6 said:
I really have been using Logos now for the day, a few hours, and love the way it is laid out, the U.I. looks really slick and improved. I know companies look closely at what their closest competition does and how and why their customers love it. This is done down to tearing it apart and immersing yourself in the product. No companies admit to this practice but it is done and Logos and Accordance are no different.
Hi, "Rev." I'm the head of interaction design and my team is responsible for the Logos UI and designing the feature capabilities. First of all, thanks for the kind words. I like the Logos UI, too. [:)]
You might be surprised that my team doesn't pay very close attention to what any other Bible software does and how it works. We certainly don't do any tear-downs. I mean, yes, we're sort of vaguely aware of what's really cutting edge here or there in the industry. But I don't think it would be immodest to say that most of what's cutting edge is more here than anywhere out there, if you know what I mean. I prefer that we act like an industry leader than a follower.
Every now and then someone from elsewhere in the company sends me a video or a link to a new product announcement from a competing product — just as often from another industry than from the Bible study field. I watch them, but for the most part, the ones from our direct competitors tend to reinforce for me how different our approach to the field is at a deep level. There's obviously a lot of overlap in subject material and what data is available out there to license, but there's not a lot of overlap in fundamental system architecture or business strategy.
For new feature development, we tend to focus on what we can do well that also has value. "What we can do well" has more to do with what's a good fit for the existing architecture, infrastructure, and personnel than features of other software. "What has value" has more to do with our long-term strategic plans (which are pretty unique in the industry as far as I can tell) and what things users ask for along the way — and some of our users are familiar with how other software works and ask for things they like about it. And some ideas are just obviously good, no matter whether someone else does them or not.
Occasionally someone says we should do a feature because product X or Y does it. I usually reject that argument as irrelevant and go on ask about the underlying tasks, goals, and user scenarios that are supported by the feature instead. Then we debate those scenarios on the merits and (maybe) look to address them in a Logos-y way.
I've never once used Accordance as a visual reference. I'm sure it's fine software, and this is just my bias speaking, but it sort of hurts my head to look at it. [:)]
Rev. 14:6 said:However, the old idea that accordance is for original language bible study and Logos is an e-reader, is really not relevant at all any longer.
Very true. That hasn't been the case since, oh, 2003 ish? [:)]
Rev. 14:6 said:However, I know they have heard this before, Logos do not overlook the small stuff. Give us the speed of Accordance in searching! This may be a small thing but those small things do matter to us.
It's not a small thing, actually. It's largely a function of the different architectural approaches to electronic texts I've alluded to. Logos books are essentially documents, that is, large, mostly unstructured chunks of text, with indexes for finding locations within them at the time a search is executed. Accordance and Bibleworks modules (last I checked, which was a while ago, so apologies if this isn't the case any more) are essentially databases, that is, small, highly structured chunks of data that are assembled at run time to resemble documents. We think the Logos architecture is more flexible and more closely models non-electronic books. This flexibility and higher-fidelity modeling of a print book is part of what allows us to have such an expansive and diverse library. Other architectures, on the other hand, are more readily optimized for speed.
Flexibility versus speed is one of the basic trade offs in computer science. We went one way, they went another. That said, we never stop optimizing. It matters to us, too! [:)]
FWIW, the document model is the more prevalent model (see Kindle, Google) and we're confident it was the right choice. The way you have your flexibility and your speed, too is to put everything on a server where you can eat up hard drive and memory space with impunity. That's what we're doing with the Logos web app. The trade offs are shifted: Local/online versus The Cloud.
Cheers!
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Eli Evans said:
Accordance and Bibleworks modules (last I checked, which was a while ago, so apologies if this isn't the case any more) are essentially databases, that is, small, highly structured chunks of data that are assembled at run time to resemble documents.
I've since learned that I this is not accurate. I don't want to be the source of misinformation, so I'm a bit ashamed that this little tidbit got repeated around (and around). My main point was already made (we follow our own lights, without much reference to what others are doing) so I didn't really need to gild the lilly. Mea culpa.
So, in the spriit of Prov 8:9-10; 10:23; 13:16, I apologize for any conseternation my loggorhea caused. From now on, I'll try to stick to talking about things I know about, which is Logos, Logos, Logos!
Merry Christmas!
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