Restoration Movement Base Package

James C. said:

"Restoration Movement" Base Package (churches of Christ/Christian Churches/Disciples of Christ)

Logos I would like to suggest that you create a "Restoration Movement" Base Package.

Super.Tramp said:

a Methodist/Wesleyan package

Yes, to be quite honest, I was absolutely shocked that a mainline denomination would be so late to the party. And before commenting decided to google some rough numbers, and to my further surprise...

SDA Membership in US 18,479,257

Methodists Membership in US 7.3 million

So my comment WOULD'VE been, "how could they have an SDA base package before a Methodist package?", but now, I guess it is because there are more than twice as many (roughly). 

So I took the denominations listed by The National Council of Churches and grouped them by the headings that Logos has supplied as titles for their current movement-specific base packages (Catholic, Baptist, Wesleyan/Methodist, Charismatic, Lutheran, Reformed, Anglican, Orthodox, SDA). Then I created a heading for Restoration Movement and added the numbers for the three major streams of the Movement so that we can compare numbers (because we’re asking for a “Restoration Movement Base Package;” not a “Church of Christ,” “Disciples of Christ,” or “Christian Church” version). For comparison’s sake, the Restoration Movement comes in as the seventh largest group of those like-minded theological families.

I did not list Mormons or Jehovah’s Witnesses (who are on the NCC’s list), just because Logos doesn’t already have a Base Package for them. If we did, they would rank 6^th and 11^th, respectively.

So, it would look like to me that the Restoration Movement should be “next on their list.”

I wrote to the Getwell Church of Christ who publishes The Spiritual Sword quarterly. This was their reply.

Thank you for your recent letter concerning The Spiritual Sword and Logos.  We already have a CD-ROM of The Spiritual Sword. It contains years 1 -43. It was updated 3 years ago so there are 3 years not on it. But the elders do plan on updating it within the next 2 years. It has a search engine on it. It is available for $50.00 plus $2.00 S & H. However it is copyrighted so it could not be used by Logos or any other electronic company to put on their software or website. The only place it purchase it is through our websites, www.getwellchurchofchrist.org or www.spiritualsword.org . Again thank you for your interest in The Spiritual Sword.

I get the feel that they don't quite understand the idea of granting a license to use their material through Logos. Maybe they think they're giving up editorial control if someone else is involved with the publishing?  

In the past I've also contacted Restoration Quarterly at Abilene Christian University. They - at the time - were not interested in digital publication because of other arrangements. They wrote, "All back issues of Restoration Quarterly are available on ATLA (American Theological Library Association). Institutions pay a license to digitize all issues. I'm sure we could not make such a deal with Logos, since we already have an arrangement."

Of course, this keeps RQ in the hands of academics and out of the hands of ministers. ... oh well!

I had a significantly higher number for SDA Membership in US "18,479,257"

Levi Sisemore said:

SDA

1,060,386

Seventh-day Adventist Church

1,060,386

James Taylor,

According to www.adventist.org/world-church/north-american/ there are 1,100,000 Seventh Day Adventist members in all of North America. They cite 18,028,796 for worldwide membership (http://www.adventistreview.org/church-news/adventist-church-membership-passes-18-million-member-mark).

I did not do much additional research on these numbers, nor did I add any numbers from outside the United States. I'm sure Logos has users in other countries besides the United States (but I wonder: are all licenses available in non-US locations?), but I'd wager that the lion's share of their users are here (English language and finances both being major considerations). 

Levi Sisemore said:

According to www.adventist.org/world-church/north-american/ there are 1,100,000 Seventh Day Adventist members in all of North America. They cite 18,028,796 for worldwide membership (http://www.adventistreview.org/church-news/adventist-church-membership-passes-18-million-member-mark).

My mistake, I googled SDA members in US and thats where I saw that number, I was definitely shocked by the number of them, and now that makes sense.

But that certainly underscores the situation even more, there are 12 times as many Methodists as SDAs and somehow the SDA has a package long before.  Mysterious to say the least.

Thanks

Mark Johnson said:

I had the editor of RQ do a seminar and while I was either bringing him from airport or to the airport, I asked him about RQ on Logos. He does not see any value there. If someone is going to or a graduate of an accredited graduate theological institution, then that person should have free access to RQ. Thus, he does not sense there being much demand for purchasing RQ.

Levi Sisemore said:

I wrote to the Getwell Church of Christ who publishes The Spiritual Sword quarterly. This was their reply.

Try contacting Alan Highers directly. He attends elsewhere, but as I'm sure you know he is the editor. I spoke with him some months ago. He seemed open to the idea but I never got anything to come from it. Maybe more people contacting him will increase the odds of getting Spiritual Sword onboard with Logos.

I've emailed him (Highers) in the past. I didn't receive a reply. When I have more time, I might try again. I can only afford to spend so much time doing - what I see as - other people's work for them.

If a publisher doesn't want a wider market for his book, I don't understand.

If a preacher doesn't want the ear of more people for his message, I don't understand.

It shouldn't be this hard in 2015 (nearly 2016!) to see digital publishing as an established phenomenon, rather than a fad or trend.

Just reporting back with an update after my previous post. I did have a chance to speak with Alan Highers, editor of the Spiritual Sword. The takeaway from the conversation was this:

1. He seemed to be agreeable to the idea of getting the Spiritual Sword available in Logos.

2. He said it is not his decision to make.

3. He said our best bet would be to mail a letter to the elders of the Getwell congregation.

Maybe if several people do this we can make this happen.

Mike Pettit said:

Is it possible that an issue with a restoration base package is that it seems to be entirely a USA based denomination, as such it does have a very limited appeal. 

The primary roots of the Restoration Movement were in the U.S., but all of the major branches of this movement have had significant foreign mission efforts going back to the late 19th century.  There are a significant number of non-US congregations with connections to the movement. Remember, even in the U.S., most congregations won't have "Restoration Movement" on the sign in front of their building - it will say something like "Christian Church," Church of Christ," "Independent Christian Church" or "Disciples of Christ."

Theologically it all seems very similar to the Brethren movement to me, but perhaps I am missing something.

MJ. Smith said:

Mike Pettit said:

Theologically it all seems very similar to the Brethren movement to me, but perhaps I am missing something.

My father, a long time elder and son/grandnephew of ministers in the Church of Christ, also saw the Brethren as theologically similar. To me the major difference is the influence of Scottish enlightenment on the Stone-Campbell movement vs. the pietist influence on the Brethren which leads to quite different means to similar conclusions.

It seems to me that there are two things that gave the Restoration Movement it's particular character.

1. The influence, as M.J. said, of the Scottish Enlightenment. It shaped the way the movement interprets the Bible and how it thinks theologically;
2. It's origin on the U.S. frontier during the Second Great Awakening. This has shaped the culture in a number of ways.  For example, the use of lay preachers rather than seminary-trained clergy, the popularity well past the mid-20th century of tent revivals, and a distrust of intellectualism pursued for its own sake. As our society has changed, all of the major branches of the Restoration Movement have become more urban, and as the average member has become more educated congregations have also looked for more highly educated ministers. But in many congregations you can still feel the populists roots of the frontier Awakening.

I also am interested in seeing Restoration Movement resources added. 

Super.Tramp said:

Gabe Martini (Faithlife) said:

Thanks everyone for these suggestions. We will look into how we can better serve our Restoration movement users.

Any news?

[Y][Y]

Doesn't look like much has changed... I'm bumping this thread, though, as I would love to see more Restoration Movement ressources published, even a base package!

Publishers: CollegePress, ACU Press, 21st Century Christian, Montex (or whoever publishes Jim McGuiggan's commentaries these days).

Almost 2020 and still does not appear to be much traction...

Kent, are you seeing these for sale now or just saying that these are now in the stable, someday to be processed? "Gospel Advocate" doesn't presently return any search results for me.

I started a special piggy bank and named it "Logos Investments"....  So I'm getting ready... [8-|]

I would add to the list Truth for Today Commentaries by Eddie Cloer and bunch. Some of the best commentaries imho.

Thanks James and Kent,

Is there enough published to create a package?

Is this a practical idea to be discussing? Logos can only spread itself too thin. Just because I want something doesn't mean Logos should do it. And they should do a whole lot of stuff that I have no interest in. But for the body of Christ, is this a needed resource that is overdue?

For other denominations, I have been able to just buy a library or package. When I start, I have no idea what I don't know. When I wade in, I find such amazing things in each each that I would have never known to look for.

I think I know enough to know that I have a hole in my library that I need to fill elsewhere if I cannot fill it here. But I cannot even ask about outside resources here. I am not complaining! This is on the church, all of it, not Logos, in a complicated web of mess. Logos is not the center or even a leading player in this mess.

I'm just rambling a bit from the perspective of a student, trying to learn about ALL of the church, and hoping to quote bits of all of it in my papers. The church is a body with no members less important than the others, right?

Are there any other large groups of the church not represented with a package in Logos?

Thank you for this list. I need this list to be too long, rather than too short. I don't know what I don't know.

My library has nothing Anabaptist right now. I need to rectify that immediately. It is so easy to just use what is currently the most handy.

Some of these other groups are completely new to me and need some investigation. Some groups I recognize and don't need my attention right. Others I needed to be reminded of. Like Anabaptist. Thanks!