Payment Plans and you

So got an email today which will I think make long rolling payment plans a thing of the past and Faithlife is finding more ways to exact more money.

Here is the main point from the email:

"Starting on Monday, in order to add resources to a payment plan we will need to charge 25% of the new order total."

So, forget it. Just start a new plan, why ever add to an existing? I guess unless your only adding something minor?

Sorry, but I didn't think they were hurting that bad for income?

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Comments

David Taylor, Jr.

Hmm, not sure what the thinking is on that. Interested to know the answer.

Dan Francis

Well all this means if it is correct is I will not be getting any larger purchases from Logos for 2 years.

-Dan

Matthew C Jones

Well all this means if it is correct is I will not be getting any larger purchases from Logos for 2 years.

-Dan

I am afraid that will include me too.

DAL

That is totally weird since they won't let you add anything unless it's $100 or more. Maybe that $100 requirement will not be there anymore. But still why would I pay $125 for a resource that cost $100? Starting a new payment plan is not a viable option either because what if you start 10 new payment plans - that will be $50 extra a month for administration fees which is probably worse than the 25% they want to charge to add resources so either way we get screwed

Maybe is not for everybody because I have not received one of those emails informing me of that change.

DAL

ps. If that's the route they want to go I think they should make exceptions for upgrades; especially if an upgrade is $100 or more.

Dustin Pearson

So the situation was to put things in context, I have 1 plan ending in two payments and another ending in 7 payments. Faithlife has been trying to get me to combine those and then add on a number of expensive wish list items and extend the payment plan out two years.

Well now they have thrown this wrinkle in, full email:

Faithlife/Logos/Verbum is moving towards a new Payment plan policy and because I sent you a payment plan offer recently I want to make sure you know about it first.

Starting on Monday, in order to add resources to a payment plan we will need to charge 25% of the new order total. But if you get back to me concerning the offer I sent you, even if you are interested in other resources, I will be able to help add them to your plan without a down payment until this Saturday.

As always, keep my contact info handy and send me an email or call my direct line at 360-398-5199 if you are interested in any new resources and I will work hard to give you the best service and pricing available. If there is anything that you are interested in today, simply reply to this email.

I look forward to continue working with you in the future.

Rokas

But still why would I pay $125 for a resource that cost $100?

I don't think you would. Instead, you'd pay $25 at the time of purchase and the rest ($75) would go to the payment plan. At least I understand it like that.

William Gabriel

So they'll let you transfer resources for a flat $20, but a payment plan adjustment requires 2500 basis points?

Bruce Dunning

I've actually only ever used a payment plan once and that was a few years ago so I guess I was not included in this mass email. If I understand things correctly I think many will be discouraged from adding resources to their payment plans. Perhaps this was the intent.

John Crabtree

I have not received this email yet and I am currently on a payment plan. I wonder when this information will be coming? This will for sure discourage me from adding resources to my payment plan.

abondservant

I have not received this email yet and I am currently on a payment plan. I wonder when this information will be coming? This will for sure discourage me from adding resources to my payment plan.

If this is really what ends up happening, then my salesman will be sad. I am not likely to add as much to my payment plan with a ridiculous up-charge on top of the 5$ monthly fee.

I've put about 5000$ on the payment plan this year, and paid about 3600 of it. If going forward there is an extra 25% on that 5000$, making it 6500$ I'll be a cash customer thank you very much

Bob Pritchett

Just to be clear, we aren't charging a new fee -- we're just asking that the first payment be 25% of the new purchase.

So if you bought something for $800, the first payment would be 25% = $200, and could then be $100 / month (plus $5/mo fee) for six months for the remainder.

Payment plans have been a great way to help users build their libraries with smaller monthly payments. Unfortunately our sales model has become 'addicted' to payment plans, and they now represent too large a percentage of our sales. The way accounting rules work, when we book this $800 sale we owe royalties, taxes, etc. immediately on the whole balance. With people making payments of < $100, for as many as 24 months (or sometimes more), we're far too often caught in a situation where a new $800 sale costs us hundreds in cash many months before we're able to collect are costs, let alone our (not that large) profit.

This is especially true as many users (at our sales team's suggestion) have simply added new purchases to the end of their payment plans. So someone with 3 months remaining at $100/mo buys a new $500 product by just adding 5 months to their payments.

This is good for you, and for us -- on paper. But in the checking account this creates significant obligations (the part of the $500 we need to pay in royalties, taxes, etc.) long before we get to collecting the revenue.

This is a small inconvenience that bank loans and cash management can handle -- if it represents a fraction of your sales (which it did for us, for many years). Now it's grown to the point that we need to tweak the parameters for new purchases.

Please continue to provide feedback, and we'll continue tweaking the program, just as we've been doing all along. Payment plans started with many more limitations / a shorter time frame / etc. We loosened that up, responding to the market, and now we're just tightening it up for the same reason. We'll continue to tune the parameters to find a balance that works for you while allowing us to pay the bills -- because we can't promise the power company or rights holders or employees or the IRS to just wait a year to get paid! :-)

abondservant

yeah - thats probably going to price me right out of any significant purchases in the future.

Good luck FL team. IF this is how its going to go - on a pragmatic level - once I'm paid off, I'm done with payment plans. This will in practice mean instead of ~10k a year (paid 9kish in the last two years, and have about 8 to go of the total of nearly 20k roughly that I've spent in total), I'll likely be spending a small fraction of that.

Hope it works for you. But my days of spending thousands have been brought to an end.

Dustin Pearson

Well the email(s) that have gone out were confusing in their wording for one.

For another, for such a well used benefit to paying for resources as the cause for this change, it is not being well communicated. Really, this should be communicated better and in say at least a month in advance. What many people were going to hear when? Monday? Or just when they tried to add a resource?

Now the explanation above makes more sense, but will add some more consideration when doing a payment plan. May have to opt more for the savings account option, though the only downside is for Faithlife as that will push out purchases a year or more instead of paying for them over that two years.

So does they 25% up front payment included on new payment plan setups?

James Taylor

we're just asking that the first payment be 25% of the new purchase.

I don't think that it is illogical for you to ask for 25% down, it will just mean saving up to buy bigger ticket items, which just means hopefully we could get some advanced notice or extra time frames on promotions/sales. But IMO it is completely understandable for Faithlife to make adjustments to be sure their bills get paid.

abondservant

we're just asking that the first payment be 25% of the new purchase.

I don't think that it is illogical for you to ask for 25% down, it will just mean saving up to buy bigger ticket items, which just means hopefully we could get some advanced notice or extra time frames on promotions/sales. But IMO it is completely understandable for Faithlife to make adjustments to be sure their bills get paid.

I agree, bills have to be paid. Its not too much to ask. But it will price me out.

Jack Caviness

Just to be clear, we aren't charging a new fee -- we're just asking that the first payment be 25% of the new purchase.

Interesting post, Bob. The new policy makes it appear that FL is in a serious cash-flow bind. That creates a bit of uneasiness concerning the long-term viability of our investments.

Unfortunately our sales model has become 'addicted' to payment plans, and they now represent too large a percentage of our sales.

Every time I click on a fairly large resource/bundle, I am given the price in monthly payments. This makes it look as if FL prefers that we purchase on payment plans. I personally don't want to see a payment plan unless I specifically request it.Just tell me the price, and I will decide how to purchase. Payment plans have become such a large part of your sales because your marketing department has been pushing them over one-time charges.

I fear that this new policy will cost you many thousands of dollars in sales—Is your cash-flow that poor?

Just to be clear, we aren't charging a new fee -- we're just asking that the first payment be 25% of the new purchase.

Interesting post, Bob. The new policy makes it appear that FL is in a serious cash-flow bind. That creates a bit of uneasiness concerning the long-term viability of our investments.

Not necessarily. If FL wants to be aggressive with growth, especially in the emerging markets outside of the US, they would need the cash upfront to make it work. Personally, I would love to see FL make it to Korea, China and Brazil. Which bible software will win the race? It is TBD. (FYI, the market in the US is shrinking).

Matthew C Jones

Interesting post, Bob. The new policy makes it appear that FL is in a serious cash-flow bind. That creates a bit of uneasiness concerning the long-term viability of our investments.

My thoughts too.

Frank Sauer

Is it just me or when I read Bob's post, I can't help but wonder if this wasn't foreseen considering how many emails many of us get containing more offers to upgrade and extend our payment plans.

I rarely receive a special offer email any longer that is not an offer to upgrade my base package and extend a payment plan. So it didn't surprise me at all when I read the statement that payment plan sales are to high of a percentage of sales.

I wonder if this will have an adverse effect on sales though as many may avoid the bigger purchases, though the monthly payments would be shorter and less $ per payment on average.

Ronald Quick

From Bob's post (and I just quickly skimmed it), there is a lot of upfront costs on their end when a resource/bundle is sold. It sounds like there is a lot of outstanding cash that they're waiting to receive that they've already paid out. So I understand their position, but depending on the cost I may have to pass on some bundles/packages.

Jack Caviness

Just to be clear, we aren't charging a new fee -- we're just asking that the first payment be 25% of the new purchase.

Interesting post, Bob. The new policy makes it appear that FL is in a serious cash-flow bind. That creates a bit of uneasiness concerning the long-term viability of our investments.

Not necessarily.

Note that I was speaking of appearances, for I am not privy to FL's financial position. Quite often, reality takes a back seat to appearances.

William Gabriel

Interesting post, Bob. The new policy makes it appear that FL is in a serious cash-flow bind. That creates a bit of uneasiness concerning the long-term viability of our investments.

My thoughts too.

The concerning part to me is that they've had this up and running for a while now yet the current cash flows aren't enough to adequately cover new plans. It's not like they're starting from scratch. They ought to have quite a bit in the pipeline right now.

Mike Childs

It appears that Logos is tightening their credit policy. That is a business decision, and FL should do whatever they feel is in the company's best interest.

However, it seems to me that if this has become a problem, it is a problem that FL created through their own sales agents. The sales agents aggressively contact customers through email suggesting resources that could be added to their payment plan with just a little increase. I regularly receive such emails, and I imagine everyone on a payment plan does.

In the long run this may not be such a bad thing. Large purchases will have to slow down and be delayed until the 25% down payment can be saved. If someone is in seminary, or serving a small church with a small salary, they will delay these purchases. Frequently they will not make the purchases at all.

Of course, this applies only to adding a second payment plan. It will not impact the first payment plan, as I understand. But that still will greatly reduce the number of payment plans, in my opinion.

Actually, the delay will give more time to reconsider whether one really needs, or can afford, the purchase. Many purchases will just no longer be made. There is a lot of difference in a person with really tight finances buying a $1600 set of resources by coming up with $89 to begin an 18 month payment plan verses coming up with $400 to begin the payment plan.

Perhaps this will prevent people from making purchases that they really can't afford, and that will be a good thing. I would predict that this change of policy will greatly reduce payment plans in general, which apparently have become too large a portion of Logos' business. Payment plans in genare about to become a much smaller part of a smaller pie of Logos' business overall.

Bob Pritchett

Interesting post, Bob. The new policy makes it appear that FL is in a serious cash-flow bind. That creates a bit of uneasiness concerning the long-term viability of our investments.

We're not in any danger of disappearing. We're a significant business with a wonderful, active customer base (thank you!) that still makes a profit.

We're just managing cash. Yes, we promoted payment plans. They work great to a point.

This isn't a crisis, or an emergency, or even the end of tweaks to the program -- it may tighten more, loosen in other ways, etc.

This is just a math problem.

I don't wish to share all our internal accounting -- and it's crazy complicated with lots of variables -- but I think that if you look at even simple scenarios you can see how this can be a problem. Now that most active purchasers have a payment plan going, most people just buy new things by extending their payment plan. That means that this month's sales -- which we expect, at some level, to use to pay this month's bills -- are effectively being pushed out 2, 3, or even 15 months from now. So TODAY we get a new cash obligation, but TODAY we get no cash. And last year didn't have the same ratio of payment plans, so its delayed payments aren't equal to what we're deferring today.

It's not a big corporate secret that our royalties are generally due every quarter, and that paychecks are due every two weeks. Our royalties range from zero (public domain content) to as high as 70% (in some very unpleasant cases).

So if you buy a $1,000 of product on 24 months (thank you!), you have a $41.67 + $5 = $46.67 first month payment.

We may owe royalties of $500 on this purchase. The royalties are due at the end of the calendar quarter, which is at max 90 days away, but on average 45 days away. (It could be tomorrow.)

So let's say we've collected two payments by the time royalties are due. We've got $93.34 from you so far, and make a $500 payment. Now our cash position is DOWN over $400. At the end of a YEAR we'll have collected $560.04 but by then will have had to pay taxes (let's say we're 10% profitable, so we pay the IRS 35% or more of the $100 profit -- another $35).

A year after you start the payment plan we're only $25.04 ahead in cash (on a $1,000 sale) and we haven't considered payroll and other expenses!

(Even if our royalty was only $200 on this particular purchase we'd be underwater for more than four months.)

Yes, like many businesses paid over time we can take our receivables to a bank and borrow against them, but you can't borrow against the whole balance (more like 60-75%), and now you're also paying interest (thankfully low right now), etc.

This is why credit cards exist, and why many products sold with time payments have another company manage the payments. It's because time payments is its own business... and while a producer like Faithlife can 'do a little bit', if it becomes too big a part of their business, they have to either reign it in or push it off on another company whose financial model -- and backing -- is designed for it.

I'm sure you're thinking that we can 'make it up in volume' or 'once it starts going payments from last year will cover costs for this year', and that's all true, to a point -- except that if your profits aren't outrageous (ours aren't) and your growth isn't a rocket ship (ours isn't) and you aren't rolling around in excess cash (we aren't) and don't have a venture capital fund backing you (we don't) and you can't borrow 100% of your receivables (we can't) and you are deferring revenue but not expenses, you can hit a math wall.

For what it's worth, we are both profitable and growing this year. We're just tweaking our payment plan system so that we can continue to serve you well without having to borrow future receivables from someone we meet in the alley behind the dumpster. :-)

Danny Parker

It seems to make sense from a Logos view, but likely takes me out of this payment option all together. Probably just as well to avoid the $5 a month charge anyway. Keeps me from spending more than I can afford. Not a bad situation. Just different than the past.

One might argue many things, but a company needs to do what it has to do as it reviews business models. However, as much as the current model was used, it seems it would have been better to communicate this better up front. Good communication is one area that seems to be lacking in a number of instances in the past. This leads to confused and unhappy customers. This is a trend that good companies can run aground on - just look around at numbers of once great companies.

But better to keep a healthy model than to run into trouble. It may impact some revenues as well initially, although likely everyone just adjusts to the new reality. Living within one's means is not a bad thing. [A] And book addicts will likely still spend dollars.[:#]

Dan Pritchett

Large purchases will have to slow down and be delayed until the 25% down payment can be saved.

Many book lovers that discover they're spending the same book budget amount on Logos books each year will find that using Logos Book Cache is the answer, to not only the Pre-Pub problem of having cash up front, but will also find it solves this 25% down payment issue as well.

The added bonus to using Logos Book Cache is that they are saving the $5/mo. payment plan fee every month.

It won't solve everyone's issues, but for those who aren't sure what they will buy in the future, but know they are going to spend a set amount, they can start a Logos Book Cache subscription now, avoid the $5/mo. payment plan fee and be well ahead of the game when they find the next title they want.

https://www.logos.com/book-cache

Mike Tourangeau

Interesting post, Bob. The new policy makes it appear that FL is in a serious cash-flow bind. That creates a bit of uneasiness concerning the long-term viability of our investments.

We're not in any danger of disappearing. We're a significant business with a wonderful, active customer base (thank you!) that still makes a profit.

We're just managing cash. Yes, we promoted payment plans. They work great to a point.

This isn't a crisis, or an emergency, or even the end of tweaks to the program -- it may tighten more, loosen in other ways, etc.

This is just a math problem.

I don't wish to share all our internal accounting -- and it's crazy complicated with lots of variables -- but I think that if you look at even simple scenarios you can see how this can be a problem. Now that most active purchasers have a payment plan going, most people just buy new things by extending their payment plan. That means that this month's sales -- which we expect, at some level, to use to pay this month's bills -- are effectively being pushed out 2, 3, or even 15 months from now. So TODAY we get a new cash obligation, but TODAY we get no cash. And last year didn't have the same ratio of payment plans, so its delayed payments aren't equal to what we're deferring today.

It's not a big corporate secret that our royalties are generally due every quarter, and that paychecks are due every two weeks. Our royalties range from zero (public domain content) to as high as 70% (in some very unpleasant cases).

So if you buy a $1,000 of product on 24 months (thank you!), you have a $41.67 + $5 = $46.67 first month payment.

We may owe royalties of $500 on this purchase. The royalties are due at the end of the calendar quarter, which is at max 90 days away, but on average 45 days away. (It could be tomorrow.)

So let's say we've collected two payments by the time royalties are due. We've got $93.34 from you so far, and make a $500 payment. Now our cash position is DOWN over $400. At the end of a YEAR we'll have collected $560.04 but by then will have had to pay taxes (let's say we're 10% profitable, so we pay the IRS 35% or more of the $100 profit -- another $35).

A year after you start the payment plan we're only $25.04 ahead in cash (on a $1,000 sale) and we haven't considered payroll and other expenses!

(Even if our royalty was only $200 on this particular purchase we'd be underwater for more than four months.)

Yes, like many businesses paid over time we can take our receivables to a bank and borrow against them, but you can't borrow against the whole balance (more like 60-75%), and now you're also paying interest (thankfully low right now), etc.

This is why credit cards exist, and why many products sold with time payments have another company manage the payments. It's because time payments is its own business... and while a producer like Faithlife can 'do a little bit', if it becomes too big a part of their business, they have to either reign it in or push it off on another company whose financial model -- and backing -- is designed for it.

I'm sure you're thinking that we can 'make it up in volume' or 'once it starts going payments from last year will cover costs for this year', and that's all true, to a point -- except that if your profits aren't outrageous (ours aren't) and your growth isn't a rocket ship (ours isn't) and you aren't rolling around in excess cash (we aren't) and don't have a venture capital fund backing you (we don't) and you can't borrow 100% of your receivables (we can't) and you are deferring revenue but not expenses, you can hit a math wall.

For what it's worth, we are both profitable and growing this year. We're just tweaking our payment plan system so that we can continue to serve you well without having to borrow future receivables from someone we meet in the alley behind the dumpster. :-)

This makes total sense.

Sakarias Ingolfsson

The added bonus to using Logos Book Cache is that they are saving the $5/mo. payment plan fee every month

Yeay, and even better if you get a dedicated savings account at your bank. You´ll collect interest on your savings, and the money is not bound to Logos, should you wish to buy your books in a different format, or if you should need the money in a pinch ;-)

This could be different, though. The Book Cache program could for example rewarded its subscribers for the loyalty. Therefore I have added a UserVoice petition to that end.

JT (alabama24)

I'd love to set up a book cache account. Add the ability to purchase Vyrso resources, Dan, and it's a done deal. [;)]

Jack Caviness

Interesting post, Bob. The new policy makes it appear that FL is in a serious cash-flow bind. That creates a bit of uneasiness concerning the long-term viability of our investments.

We're not in any danger of disappearing. We're a significant business with a wonderful, active customer base (thank you!) that still makes a profit.

We're just managing cash. Yes, we promoted payment plans. They work great to a point.

Thank you for the more detailed explanation. Perhaps I should have made it clear that I was speaking of the perspectives that this policy change could produce. Actually, I trust you to make wise business decisions. But at the same time, I must say that communication is not necessarily FL's strong suit.

GregW

Many book lovers that discover they're spending the same book budget amount on Logos books each year will find that using Logos Book Cache is the answer, to not only the Pre-Pub problem of having cash up front, but will also find it solves this 25% down payment issue as well.

The added bonus to using Logos Book Cache is that they are saving the $5/mo. payment plan fee every month.

It won't solve everyone's issues, but for those who aren't sure what they will buy in the future, but know they are going to spend a set amount, they can start a Logos Book Cache subscription now, avoid the $5/mo. payment plan fee and be well ahead of the game when they find the next title they want.

https://www.logos.com/book-cache

I recently let my payment plan stop when it was paid off as I didn't feel it was the best way for me to manage my purchases, but when I try setting up Book Cache in my profile, I can't find anywhere there to do it. I'd love to be able to set it up, and vary the payment when I want to without having to call/email Logos. I'm UK-based, so having a payment plan for me introduces currency risk, and it is in my interest to accumulate credit when Sterling is strong, but not when the dollar is stronger. It's also a pain from here (even with the dedicated UK number) to have to call. Is there an easy way to set up Cook Cache online?

David Taylor, Jr.

Dan and Bob,

What about the option of adding something like PayPal for payments. I know you already do this for International customers. Yes, there is a percentage on the payments, but I assume you have that for credit cards already. That option would allow people to do payment plans (interest free for a time) and you would get your money up front.

Mike Childs

If the new policy works to FL's financial advantage and strengthens the company, well and good. It will continue. And in the long run, we benefit from a stronger FL company.

If the new policy hurts sells to the point that it is counterproductive to FL, then the policy will be modified or dropped.

That is simple business. In the mean time, it is a good time to evaluate your Logos Library and decide what you really need and what you don't really need. It is a good time to decide what is the best way to pay for future resources, and maybe start saving for that important expensive resource.

After all, we have not always had Logos payment plans.

David Carter

Looking on the bright side, maybe this will put an end to the unsolicited (and speaking personally, unwanted) telephone sales calls.

DBR

I have been debt free for almost six years and I have no plan to go back in debt for anything, even something small like a payment plan for Logos. I always want to add more resources, but I learn patience and contentment by saving my money and buying what I can afford. I think it is a wise move for a business to get it's payments on credit under control.

Dan Francis

If the new policy works to FL's financial advantage and strengthens the company, well and good. It will continue. And in the long run, we benefit from a stronger FL company.

If the new policy hurts sells to the point that it is counterproductive to FL, then the policy will be modified or dropped.

I found myself asking do I get Anglican Portfolio right away. The changes would have meant a delay of a few months before purchasing it. Not the end of the world. I will admit with a bigger initial outlay it will have me think twice... That said it is not a bad thing. The people like myself who add onto existing plans may well be the biggest problem, but I do feel for people who suddenly rather than going with GOLD decide BRONZE is all they can afford at this time because it is a 25% down... That said I do understand the reasoning behind this move fully and in the end may create better levels of stewardship for both people and Faithlife.

-Dan

Bruce Dunning

I have been debt free for almost six years and I have no plan to go back in debt for anything

I commend you for this.

I think it is a wise move for a business to get it's payments on credit under control.

And I totally agree with you.

Levi Durfey

I have been debt free for almost six years and I have no plan to go back in debt for anything, even something small like a payment plan for Logos. I always want to add more resources, but I learn patience and contentment by saving my money and buying what I can afford. I think it is a wise move for a business to get it's payments on credit under control.

Amen. [:)]

Matthew C Jones

I found myself asking do I get Anglican Portfolio right away.

I was planning on taking advantage of the base package sale that ends Dec 31. These were in my list:

Anglican Portfolio
Orthodox Platinum
SDA Platinum
Verbum Capstone

I may have to pass on them.

DAL

I found myself asking do I get Anglican Portfolio right away.

I was planning on taking advantage of the base package sale that ends Dec 31. These were in my list:

Anglican Portfolio
Orthodox Platinum
SDA Platinum
Verbum Capstone

I may have to pass on them.

You still can do it that down payment policy does not start till next week .

DAL

Jack Caviness

Looking on the bright side, maybe this will put an end to the unsolicited (and speaking personally, unwanted) telephone sales calls.

That would be a huge plus

Mike Childs

If the new policy works to FL's financial advantage and strengthens the company, well and good. It will continue. And in the long run, we benefit from a stronger FL company.

If the new policy hurts sells to the point that it is counterproductive to FL, then the policy will be modified or dropped.

I found myself asking do I get Anglican Portfolio right away. The changes would have meant a delay of a few months before purchasing it. Not the end of the world. I will admit with a bigger initial outlay it will have me think twice... That said it is not a bad thing. The people like myself who add onto existing plans may well be the biggest problem, but I do feel for people who suddenly rather than going with GOLD decide BRONZE is all they can afford at this time because it is a 25% down... That said I do understand the reasoning behind this move fully and in the end may create better levels of stewardship for both people and Faithlife.

-Dan

There must have been some kind of failure to understand between FL sales and the company in general. Nearly every time I added a product to an existing payment plan, it was because a sales rep emailed me (repeatedly) with offers to do so. And it was a big help to me personally. But from Bob's statements, it seems like different departments in company were working at cross purposes. In other words, I do not feel like we were the problem.

In fact, I received such emails just last week, which I replied to and declined their kind offer.

abondservant

If the new policy works to FL's financial advantage and strengthens the company, well and good. It will continue. And in the long run, we benefit from a stronger FL company.

If the new policy hurts sells to the point that it is counterproductive to FL, then the policy will be modified or dropped.

I found myself asking do I get Anglican Portfolio right away. The changes would have meant a delay of a few months before purchasing it. Not the end of the world. I will admit with a bigger initial outlay it will have me think twice... That said it is not a bad thing. The people like myself who add onto existing plans may well be the biggest problem, but I do feel for people who suddenly rather than going with GOLD decide BRONZE is all they can afford at this time because it is a 25% down... That said I do understand the reasoning behind this move fully and in the end may create better levels of stewardship for both people and Faithlife.

-Dan

There must have been some kind of failure to understand between FL sales and the company in general. Nearly every time I added a product to an existing payment plan, it was because a sales rep emailed me (repeatedly) with offers to do so. And it was a big help to me personally. But from Bob's statements, it seems like different departments in company were working at cross purposes. In other words, I do not feel like we were the problem.
In fact, I received such emails just last week, which I replied to and declined their kind offer.

I find them helpful as well. I don't always say yes, but I've said yes more than no. as a last hurrah, I added Lutheran Platinum, the methodist library builder and the sermon finder collection. But I suspect I won't be adding anything else for a while.

Mike Childs

Dan said, "Many book lovers that discover they're spending the same book budget amount on Logos books each year will find that using Logos Book Cache is the answer, to not only the Pre-Pub problem of having cash up front, but will also find it solves this 25% down payment issue as well."

I certainly think Dan has a good suggestion in using Logos cache, or as someone else suggested, save up in the bank and draw a bit of interest.

However, regardless of how one saves up the 25%, one still will have to take time to save. There will be a slowdown in the pace of sales due to taking time to save the 25% Of course, that slowdown will hopefully more than be offset by the increase in the pace of payment. Only time will show if decreasing the rate of sales, but increasing the pace of payment by requiring 25% up front will ultimately increase or decrease the income for Faithlife / Logos.

I am sure Logos has weighed these things in their decision, but things do not always work out in real life as the do on paper. I suspect some sales will be lost in the time to raise the 25%.

For example, I just recently made a large Logos purchase (large for me) of the "Father's of the Church" series. I am delighted that I did, but I would have never made the purchase if I had to put 25% down. Perhaps that would have been better for Logos / Faithlife as I am now making a low payment each month that causes me no stress, but delays FL getting their money.

There may not be many others in my position, but I suspect there are.

Virgil Buttram

Dan said, "Many book lovers that discover they're spending the same book budget amount on Logos books each year will find that using Logos Book Cache is the answer, to not only the Pre-Pub problem of having cash up front, but will also find it solves this 25% down payment issue as well."

I certainly think Dan has a good suggestion in using Logos cache, or as someone else suggested, save up in the bank and draw a bit of interest.

However, regardless of how one saves up the 25%, one still will have to take time to save. There will be a slowdown in the pace of sales due to taking time to save the 25% Of course, that slowdown will hopefully more than be offset by the increase in the pace of payment. Only time will show if decreasing the rate of sales, but increasing the pace of payment by requiring 25% up front will ultimately increase or decrease the income for Faithlife / Logos.

I am sure Logos has weighed these things in their decision, but things do not always work out in real life as the do on paper. I suspect some sales will be lost in the time to raise the 25%.

For example, I just recently made a large Logos purchase (large for me) of the "Father's of the Church" series. I am delighted that I did, but I would have never made the purchase if I had to put 25% down. Perhaps that would have been better for Logos / Faithlife as I am now making a low payment each month that causes me no stress, but delays FL getting their money.

There may not be many others in my position, but I suspect there are.

A slowdown in current sales, perhaps, but as those sales would not have resulted in current revenues, Faithlife will not likely experience any reduction in revenues. However, they will experience a reduction in payments to publishers. In the net, little to no change in current income and a measurable reduction in outgo.

Don

Many book lovers that discover they're spending the same book budget amount on Logos books each year will find that using Logos Book Cache is the answer, to not only the Pre-Pub problem of having cash up front, but will also find it solves this 25% down payment issue as well.

The added bonus to using Logos Book Cache is that they are saving the $5/mo. payment plan fee every month.

It won't solve everyone's issues, but for those who aren't sure what they will buy in the future, but know they are going to spend a set amount, they can start a Logos Book Cache subscription now, avoid the $5/mo. payment plan fee and be well ahead of the game when they find the next title they want.

https://www.logos.com/book-cache

I recently let my payment plan stop when it was paid off as I didn't feel it was the best way for me to manage my purchases, but when I try setting up Book Cache in my profile, I can't find anywhere there to do it. I'd love to be able to set it up, and vary the payment when I want to without having to call/email Logos. I'm UK-based, so having a payment plan for me introduces currency risk, and it is in my interest to accumulate credit when Sterling is strong, but not when the dollar is stronger. It's also a pain from here (even with the dedicated UK number) to have to call. Is there an easy way to set up Cook Cache online?

Greg,

I emailed you but a book cache subscription can be added to your account at the link below.

https://www.logos.com/product/33666/book-cache-monthly-subscription