Be Honest - Would you buy again?

I've hesitated over the past few weeks on buying Logos before the sale period expires (having already rejected buying Accordance), and have routinely read this forum for users' experience on the Mac version.

Accordance appears to be more designed for the 'scholar', while the Logos Bible Study package seems appropriately designed for a lay-person such as myself - and appears to be a more cost-effective package (with standard features that you have to pay extra for elsewhere).

However, I have to say that the strong impression is created in reading this forum that despite the availability of a 25% discount I should also reject buying Logos at this time (even though I could run it via VirtualBox/Windows 7 Pro).

If this were an Adobe product (for example) there would be widespread outrage at the 'jam tomorrow' promises of better functionality within the next six months.

Therefore, given the amount of 'friendly dissent' on this forum, given the chance would you really buy Logos 4 Mac today, and the reasons why?

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Comments

Terry Poperszky

In a heartbeat and I can prove that. Instead of cutting in running, yesterday I doubled my investment in Logos software. That additional money would have more than set me up with Accordance, but I believe that my long term goals are much better served by L4 (both Win and Mac).

Do I find the Mac software useful right now? Nope, but I knew what an alpha was when I bought it. Everything I am doing and learning now will be applicable to L4Mac in a few short months. So, I get in on the ground floor, I get to influence the design/changes of the software and I get arguably one of the best study systems on the market for any platform.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/76449#Comment_76449

Hey, are you the Christopher Guest? [:)]

[view:http://van-holiday.com/wp-content/gallery/fandom/christopher_guest_this_is_spinal_tap_002.jpg:100]

Robert Mullen

Yep. So much so I have upgraded twice to take advantage of the deals. The Mac app is only useful for reading and experimentation right now but I have no hesitations about doing my proper study in Win 7 on Parallels. If one were not prepared to do that I imagine they would reach a different conclusion at this point in time. I went through the first Mac alpha and beta and know a finished (but very underwhelming) product came from it so I have faith the current alpha will reach its goal. My faith has eyes though and with those eyes I see the progress from mere curiosity (A2) to somewhat usable (A8 IMO) to the current A11 which is beginning to flesh out features pretty well even if it is still pretty buggy. I see where this is going. I wish it were going faster but I understand the reality of software development and of running a business.

Bottom line: I would have no problem whatsoever recommending purchase for a Mac user that is OK running in a Windows VM for a little while. If they insisted on pure Mac technology it would depend on their expectations and tech savvy.

MajorCedar

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/76481#Comment_76481

No, I would not buy again. Of course I can still use Logos 3 for the MAC (the broken and unfixed version that seemingly will stay that way - [:@]) as well as its counterpart in Windows. As for Logos 4, I'm sure it will be a good product but it is not there yet - far from it!!!!! You will be frustrated; it will be slow, constantly downloading updates and indexing (which gives us a betters sense of the meaning of the Jewish idiom, 'when the Messiah comes' Logos will be done indexing). (As for the virtual machines - and it does not matter which - the program will require lots of patience!!) Save your dollars and cents (and sense!). In fact, you might want to check out BibleWorks, especially if you want access to language resources regarding the text. As for the rest of the stuff in Logos, you will be frustrated with the lack of efficient functionality of all the 'other' resources you won't have in BibleWorks but at least it works.

Don't hear me dogging the Logos community. I like the products, forums, support, etc., (with a few exceptions) and appreciate the hard work of everyone involved. But this is my honest opinion. The fact remains that we've spent a sum of money and don't have a good product. If Logos would give me my money back, I'd ask for a refund.

With glass raised, "Cheers!"

Mike Binks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/76517#Comment_76517

As a Mac only user I have to make do with the programme as it is.

As it is I personally find it useable for most of what I want to do in sermon preparation.

Yes it does misbehave in a way that programs shouldn't but that is Alpha software for you.

Still beats looking up all those cross references in the books on the shelf.

Hope this helps

Mike

Wilder Bailey

In response to my earlier post, Bob at Logos indicated that it was clear that I had not walked down their hallways to see all the work being done on the Mac version. He went on to say that their client base was only 10% Mac. I tell you what, if 10% of the client base of Logos is Mac with all the "less than perfect results" they have offered, I then wonder what the 10% Mac would go up to if we had a very well done result.

I would buy the system again, as I did a couple of months ago. But I am one of those accused of being on the "Bleeding edge of technology" for many years. I can tell you, it is often not much fun.

The good folks at Logos need to understand the difference in good intentions and actual good results.

Dustin Bennett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/76524#Comment_76524

I've been a Logos user since '04 and I can honestly say, yes, I would buy it again!

Right now I continue to use the older version of the Mac software for sermon writing since L4Mac isn't a finished work.

I think it comes down to perspective. For example, I don't view L4Mac as a done deal. I purchased it with the idea of having a voice in the development of it. One day (hopefully soon) it will be a complete work. So I guess I more or less think of it as paying for the opporotunity to speak into the ongoing and continued development of L4Mac rather than paying for a finished product that I've had zero voice in. And, once the product is finished/complete, I won't have to pay

So think of it as an open process that you get to have a voice in. To me, I think of it as a privilege.

J.R. Miller

Hi Christopher, great question and I am glad you asked. For me, the answer is YES.

And although Alpha testing can be a challange, let me also suggest there is a benefit... you will learn the program better than anyone else. Why? Because you will test out each new feature as it is added in so you wont get overwhelmed with everything at once. In a very real sense, you will ge to grow with Logos for Mac as the program grows. It would be great to have you on board and I hope to hear more from you in the coming days. God bless.

John Graves

If I were starting out as a mac user I am not sure that I would purchase it again. The problem is that I really don't see another choice. I came over from the windows side so I already had quite a few dollars invested in Logos as a Gold User. I use Logos more than anything else on my computer as a pastor, it is the first and last place that I look for study for a sermon. If I did not use all the books that I have access to through the Logos system I might rethink my decision but I use so many things that I don't know where to get them I am not going anywhere. Of course you need to take into consideration that the mac user will never be a priority for Logos. They are working hard on the mac program but their resources are always going to be geared towards a windows platform, unless the mac takes over the market and they have as many mac users as windows users. Thats just the nature of the business.

Christopher Guest

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/76475#Comment_76475

Hey, are you the Christopher Guest?

There's more than one John Smith in the world. [H]

J.R. Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/76604#Comment_76604

John, I am not sure how you substantiate your assertion that the Mac user will "never be a priority for Logos", but I disagree with your conclusion and let me say why.

First, Logos has designed the ENTIRE Logos 4 platform to work with both PC and Mac. They put a lot of effort into making sure the core functionality and base code for Windows and mac is the exact same.

Second, this choice of dual platform code means that the Mac and PC versions share every single feature in common. Every tool, every option, and every book on the windowsd L4 is right now on the Mac platform. the only step left is to design the User Interface so we can access those tools.

Third, Logos is right now hiring more Mac developers. You can see the job posting on the website.

Fourth, Logos is also on iPhone (a Mac product) and what this demonstrates is that they are committed to making Logos available on mutliple platoforms for users who have a diversity of needs.

So from the way I see it, the Mac user is a big priority to Logos and they have invested hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars to back it up. You are free to disagree brother and maybe you use a different criteria to evaluate "priority", but I thought it might be helpful to share an opposing viewpoint. Blessings.

Terry Poperszky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/76604#Comment_76604

They are working hard on the mac program but their resources are always going to be geared towards a windows platform, unless the mac takes over the market and they have as many mac users as windows users

I understand (and agree with your logic), but the last report we had was that the Mac developers now out number the Windows developers on this project and the looking for more. Personally I am a big Mac fan, but I like the fact that I will be able to use Logos regardless of which OS (Mac/WIn) I use.

Karen Iveson

YES!!!!!!! Without a moments hesitation. Even in it's current Alpha phase I still get a lot out of it and it beats trying to find a place in my 2 bedroom 1 story house for 900+ books AND THEN trying to search through all those books while preparing for bible study! Having all those books on my laptop is worth more than I paid for Logos!

So thank you to Logos for working so hard!

God bless,

Karen

Jack Caviness

given the chance would you really buy Logos 4 Mac today, and the reasons why?

Let's see, this is the tenth response to your query. So far, you have had 1 ambivalent answer, 2 negatives, and 6 definite positives. You can now make that 7 very positive responses out of 10. That is a fair percentage in anyone's book.

With a single purchase, I have several options: 1) I can still use Mac 1.2.2 if I choose. Several people on these forums are able to use that version effectively. In fact, they rebuked me for saying that I was disappointed. It all depends upon what you want to accomplish with it. 2) You can use the Windows version with Fusion or Parallels or even (shudder) a dedicated Windows machine. I know that some have complained that this solution does not work well, but the fact is that the overwhelming majority of those using Parallels or Fusion are getting very satisfactory results. Finally 3) I can participate in the development of L4 Mac in a way that I will probably never have an opportunity to do again.

Don't let a handful of nay-sayers scare you into making an unwise decision. the current pricing is fantastic and is unlikely to be repeated.

WAM Project

Therefore, given the amount of 'friendly dissent' on this forum, given the chance would you really buy Logos 4 Mac today, and the reasons why?

In a heartbeat!! Matter of fact I jumped in on one of the lower base packages and after a few days of getting past the indexing and digging into the product I am upgrading. This product is light years ahead of accordance. While taking the best features of accordance and make them even better...

The best part is for the time being you can run it under fusion or parallels untill ALL the features are implemented. But I find myself running the Mac version side by side the windows version on the same machine... WIndows for the sepciality features mac version because I LIKE MAC LOOK AND FEEL...

They have done an awesome job!!!!

John Graves

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/76616#Comment_76616

John, I am not sure how you substantiate your assertion that the Mac user will "never be a priority for Logos", but I disagree with your conclusion and let me say why.

First, Logos has designed the ENTIRE Logos 4 platform to work with both PC and Mac. They put a lot of effort into making sure the core functionality and base code for Windows and mac is the exact same.

Second, this choice of dual platform code means that the Mac and PC versions share every single feature in common. Every tool, every option, and every book on the windowsd L4 is right now on the Mac platform. the only step left is to design the User Interface so we can access those tools.

Third, Logos is right now hiring more Mac developers. You can see the job posting on the website.

Fourth, Logos is also on iPhone (a Mac product) and what this demonstrates is that they are committed to making Logos available on mutliple platoforms for users who have a diversity of needs.

So from the way I see it, the Mac user is a big priority to Logos and they have invested hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars to back it up. You are free to disagree brother and maybe you use a different criteria to evaluate "priority", but I thought it might be helpful to share an opposing viewpoint. Blessings.

I guess I should have said first priority. My post was not meant to reflect negatively on Logos. But they did put out the windows version before the mac version. In fact we are by the estimates I have seen still six months away from a beta on the mac side. It seems the best I can tell, the reason they gave was that it is better to get the version more people will use out first. Which means that windows users are the priority. At least it appears that way, windows users have a working Logos 4 program, mac users are waiting. I understand why this is and fully except it. That doesn't mean that they are not also committed to the mac platform as I firmly believe they are. I just think that someone considering Logos 4 mac should know what they are getting into.

J.R. Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/76670#Comment_76670

I guess I should have said first priority. My post was not meant to reflect negatively on Logos.

It's all good my friend. You are always welcome to express your view here brother. Respectful and honest disagreement is healthy and you have been both your expressing your views. :-)

But they did put out the windows version before the mac version.

True, and I think it was the right business decision AND, in my opinion, the right decision for the best software development process. If you will indulge me, I will tell you why.

1. The Windows version represents a much larger market share. We all know that is a fact. Therefore, sales of L4win can be used to subsidize the L4mac development. That is smart business decision making sure you can pay your bills before they come due :-)

2. While it is true the L4win version was released first, that fact is also a bit misleading. Why do I say that? Because the Logos business model for the future is multi-platoform Bible software. So yes, L4win came first, but the Mac development was latent in the base code. So every bit of code being worked on right now in the current Windows beta cycle, is already being used and tested on the Mac side (thus one of the glitches with A10 to 10a to 11). My point is, that the development from day one has, to some degree, been supportive of the Mac development--even though the interface for the Mac is still lagging. These first two points lead to the third observation.

3. I was a Beta tester for L4win and asked back in October '09 about the Mac because I was hoping to see something soon. I was one of the people asking Logos to release the Alpha for testing so our Mac community would not get discouraged that nothing was coming for us AND I am so glad they allowed us to be a part of this development cycle which is often kept secret from users. I mention this history because based on my experience with the L4win Beta, I believe it was more cost effective to delay the Mac UI development. Why? Let's pretend that Logos said, "we are going to release both L4win and L4mac at the exact same time!" What is the consequence of that decision? I think it would be negative for Logos and therefore negative for the future of this software. Look at this way. As we, the beta testers, worked with Logos, there were a LOT of changes Logos made based on our feedback. Now imagine how expensive it would be to pay twice every time Logos wanted to make a change in the UI or base code. Imagine if, based on user feedback, Logos wanted to add a whole new feature and then they would have had to pay the Windows team to change things and then pay the Mac team to make the same exact changes. From my perspective, simultaneous development of both platforms would have driven the costs up with no added value or benefit to the program quality. Instead of this approach, Logos decided upon a shared Base Code with a lagging UI development. Letting the Mac UI lag, meant that all the user input during L4win development from Mac users, like me, ultimately benefited the Mac base code and paved the way for the coming UI.

Sadly, this does make us a bit behind for us, but again I don't think this should be construed to mean that the Mac community is of lower priority to Logos nor should it be taken as a slight toward the potential they see in the Mac market for Logos. IMHO, it is just a practical business and development decision that any good business or President would make.

Anyway, I am sure some will disagree and I don't really want to argue with anyone about it... just share my opinion that may be helpful to some in seeing that the glass is really Half-Full and not Half-Empty.

Blessings. :-)

Felipe Chamy

My answer is also YES... and I´m thinking of upgrading my base package as soon as I can...

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/76707#Comment_76707

I think it was the right business decision AND, in my opinion, the right decision for the best software development process. If you will indulge me, I will tell you why.

Superb summary, Joe. Thank you.

John Graves

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/76707#Comment_76707

I guess I should have said first priority. My post was not meant to reflect negatively on Logos.
It's all good my friend. You are always welcome to express your view here brother. Respectful and honest disagreement is healthy and you have been both your expressing your views. :-)
But they did put out the windows version before the mac version.
True, and I think it was the right business decision AND, in my opinion, the right decision for the best software development process. If you will indulge me, I will tell you why.
1. The Windows version represents a much larger market share. We all know that is a fact. Therefore, sales of L4win can be used to subsidize the L4mac development. That is smart business decision making sure you can pay your bills before they come due :-)

2. While it is true the L4win version was released first, that fact is also a bit misleading. Why do I say that? Because the Logos business model for the future is multi-platoform Bible software. So yes, L4win came first, but the Mac development was latent in the base code. So every bit of code being worked on right now in the current Windows beta cycle, is already being used and tested on the Mac side (thus one of the glitches with A10 to 10a to 11). My point is, that the development from day one has, to some degree, been supportive of the Mac development--even though the interface for the Mac is still lagging. These first two points lead to the third observation.

3. I was a Beta tester for L4win and asked back in October '09 about the Mac because I was hoping to see something soon. I was one of the people asking Logos to release the Alpha for testing so our Mac community would not get discouraged that nothing was coming for us AND I am so glad they allowed us to be a part of this development cycle which is often kept secret from users. I mention this history because based on my experience with the L4win Beta, I believe it was more cost effective to delay the Mac UI development. Why? Let's pretend that Logos said, "we are going to release both L4win and L4mac at the exact same time!" What is the consequence of that decision? I think it would be negative for Logos and therefore negative for the future of this software. Look at this way. As we, the beta testers, worked with Logos, there were a LOT of changes Logos made based on our feedback. Now imagine how expensive it would be to pay twice every time Logos wanted to make a change in the UI or base code. Imagine if, based on user feedback, Logos wanted to add a whole new feature and then they would have had to pay the Windows team to change things and then pay the Mac team to make the same exact changes. From my perspective, simultaneous development of both platforms would have driven the costs up with no added value or benefit to the program quality. Instead of this approach, Logos decided upon a shared Base Code with a lagging UI development. Letting the Mac UI lag, meant that all the user input during L4win development from Mac users, like me, ultimately benefited the Mac base code and paved the way for the coming UI.

Sadly, this does make us a bit behind for us, but again I don't think this should be construed to mean that the Mac community is of lower priority to Logos nor should it be taken as a slight toward the potential they see in the Mac market for Logos. IMHO, it is just a practical business and development decision that any good business or President would make.

Anyway, I am sure some will disagree and I don't really want to argue with anyone about it... just share my opinion that may be helpful to some in seeing that the glass is really Half-Full and not Half-Empty.

Blessings. :-)

Joe, thank you for your kind response. You state the situation quite well. I to am glad that they did things in the best way to raise money and keep going. I don't mind using fusion until the mac part is complete. I am new to the mac world so it is taking some time getting used to the same software not being available to me. Anyway, as I have thought more about my initial statement earlier today, I would have to say that I would indeed purchase logos again if I were given a do-over, no question. Thanks again for being kind.

Jacob Hantla

I would buy again, and I continue to invest. Logos is the most used software on my computer.

I have spent more on Logos (resources) than on any other software I own; and I consider it the best bargain.

Jonathan Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/76739#Comment_76739

YES! Even upgraded to Platinum!

Thomas Reindl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/76855#Comment_76855

I have to say that I think that I would buy it again. I have had my moments of frustrations and really hate waiting for all the indexing and long downloads but all in all I think that it will be worth it. I really love my new Mac and if you use it to actually read and not just to skip around all the time it is great. I use the PC version for really deep study and think it is really kewl! I am blessed to be able to be a part of the Beta and will never forget the experience. Thank you to all the people that work so hard here on this forum and I will keep praying for you!

Blessings,

Thomas

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/76988#Comment_76988

[deleted by poster]

Donovan R. Palmer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/76616#Comment_76616

First, Logos has designed the ENTIRE Logos 4 platform to work with both PC and Mac. They put a lot of effort into making sure the core functionality and base code for Windows and mac is the exact same.

Was this the original intention from the beginning with the rewrite of version 3 for Windows? I'm glad it worked out this way, but because 2009 was the year of Mac 1.x, I had the impression that the decision to develop on dual pathways came shortly around the time of the release of version 1.

Donovan R. Palmer

I've hesitated over the past few weeks on buying Logos before the sale period expires (having already rejected buying Accordance), and have routinely read this forum for users' experience on the Mac version.

I have good days and bad days on this. The resources on Logos are invaluable to me. I have been bought in for a very, very long time and love Logos. That said, there have been moments of frustration. I'm not having a moan, but last year version 1.x crept along in functionality. We found out by the end of the year why... the product was a dead end. Now we are waiting for L4 Mac. It is making good progress, but at times when you can see how refined L4 Windows is becoming, its hard to not feel like the Mac version will be playing catch up for a long, long time.

I understand the market base thing, so on the other hand I am grateful. There aren't many choices for Bible software on Mac. So overall, Logos is a good thing for the Mac market. The thing that really helps is that virtual machine software is really good these days and therefore L4 windows can be run very effectively while we wait.

J.R. Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/76997#Comment_76997

First, Logos has designed the ENTIRE Logos 4 platform to work with both PC and Mac. They put a lot of effort into making sure the core functionality and base code for Windows and mac is the exact same.

Was this the original intention from the beginning with the rewrite of version 3 for Windows? I'm glad it worked out this way, but because 2009 was the year of Mac 1.x, I had the impression that the decision to develop on dual pathways came shortly around the time of the release of version 1.

My impression is that the decision came long before that, but I don't feel the need to argue about the minutia of the timeline. The main point I was making is still the same. the base code is designed to work on both platforms and that was not an accident.

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/76739#Comment_76739

Superb summary, Joe. Thank you.

Yes Joe...very nicely said...

PS: I can tell you're an author....it took you 750 words to say what I'd have said in 100.... [:D]

Christopher Guest

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/77026#Comment_77026

Out of interest, has anyone tried L4W via CrossOverMac Pro?

Donovan R. Palmer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/77010#Comment_77010

My impression is that the decision came long before that, but I don't feel the need to argue about the minutia of the timeline.

Joe it is significant if you use it as an apologetic for the wait for functionality. You wrote " They put a lot of effort into making sure the core functionality and base code for Windows and mac is the exact same." The Logos disclaimer states: "We had to choose between continuing that
effort and having a Mac product that remained a generation behind, or
starting a new Mac project that shares code and matches—or exceeds!" To me this sounds like an evolved decision... which is brilliant and how most awesome ideas are hatched. However, that statement does not give me the impression that when the command to start L4 Windows was given, one of the design criteria was to have shared code with multiple platforms. If it was a goal from much earlier on, then I think it causes even more questions to be asked. I could wrong, but either way it is speculative because of the limited information and therefore is not a good argument for or against why users should be patient.

One thing about this decision, is that if Logos can pull this off, it does set a new standard in the industry for being Bible software being multi-platform. You can see this other products like Evernote. Pure brilliance and I give my full support to the team because I honestly hope that L4 Mac can become a world class Bible software product.

Rus Howard

Yes I would buy again - this is an investment for me. Investment have long term rewards. You'll be glad you di.

Rus

Terry Poperszky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/77304#Comment_77304

Out of interest, has anyone tried L4W via CrossOverMac Pro?

I haven't. Two reasons:

1. Past experience with the product has been lack luster and they are limited in what programs they do work with.

2. VMs have come so far, work so well, and are so easy to use that the wine based products really hold no appeal for me.

I am the lead sys admin for a medium sized IT department, out of all the various geeks that wander our halls, everyone of them is running at least one VM, on their desktops. Not one of them is using wine or it's crossover. This speaks to me, because if wine based products offered any advantage, these guys would be running it.

But if you choose to try it, I would be interested in what your experiences are.

WAM Project

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/77304#Comment_77304

I'd considered trying it out, but I think it uses the .NET architecture which is still incompatible with Crossover...

MarCya Mooney

Definitely NO!

I bought my first Logos program about 13 years ago for about 20 bucks on a floppy disc – I loved that version and so I upgraded every year since then.

The L4 is very disappointing and buggy even in Win. They released it prematurely and are overwhelmed with phone calls for support and it makes then testy and rude!

This is my first bad experience with Logos – so that’s not a bad record for them but in all honestly I still would NOT have purchased if I’d known how many features were missing and how buggy it was. IMHO

(And before anyone jumps down my throat – HE ASKED) Also, I don’t see well and that is why the large font!

Damian McGrath

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/78122#Comment_78122

Also, I don’t see well and that is why the large font!

I'm not sure why it's red.

MarCia, if you need to set the font larger so that you can read it while typing, that affects no one. But please, before you hit the "post" button, return the font to it's normal size.

In fact, by clicking on the "more" button and selecting "edit" you will be able to go in and modify this post so that it's font size is normal and its colour black.

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/76610#Comment_76610

Hey, are you the Christopher Guest?

There's more than one John Smith in the world.

yeah, but if you are THE CG, then you, of all people, can appreciate that L4Alpha now "goes to 11". [6]

Mike Aubrey

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/78122#Comment_78122

that colour is going to give someone a seizure -- or at least a headache.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/78122#Comment_78122

Also, I don’t see well and that is why the large font!

Ouch. Now I don't see so well either. [H]

Please MarCia, Damian is correct -- you can use the "more" button to edit the red ink and shrink the font a little.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/78122#Comment_78122

Definitely NO!

Unfortunately, Marcia has a habit of complaining, ignoring all attempts at assistance, and yelling, although this the first time she has yelled in red.

Marcia, do you want assistance or not?

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/78268#Comment_78268

Deleted by user

Gary Byrd

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/78273#Comment_78273

This is a good question that deserves an honest response ...

Short Answer: I would purchase again simply because I knew upfront that it was alpha so I was not expecting much in the short term but knew that in the long term I would end up saving money.

Longer Answer: If I needed good, reliable software for my Mac today, then no, I would not purchase Logos 4 for Mac today. I realize that I can run a Fusion/Win combo to get the Windows version running, but If one does not already have Fusion they will be looking at another $50 - $70 plus the cost of purchasing a legal Windows CD.

It just adds up to to much money, time, effort, & frustration for an application "stop gap" measure.

Since my needs were not necessarily "right now" "gotta have it today" ... I went ahead and made the investment in L4 for Mac hoping that in a year or so I will have a phenomenal Bible application.

In the meantime, I also invested in Accordance, which despite what you may read on these forums, is a good application.

But to be quite honest ... I still find myself going back to MacSword version 2. You can download a ton of resources that integrate very nicely with it for free. For basic Bible study neither Accordance nor L4 can touch it.

Summary: Logos 4 for Mac is definitely worth the $ providing that you are willing to wait a little while before a good stable beta is released. When the product goes GM then the price will likely increase so now is the time to get it if you plan on getting it.

But if your less concerned about the $ and more concerned about the time ... then I'd say wait.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/78292#Comment_78292

Since my needs were not necessarily "right now" "gotta have it today" ... I went ahead and made the investment in L4 for Mac hoping that in a year or so I will have a phenomenal Bible application.

I am a PC user 90%+ of the time. I have always used Logos on a PC. I purchased the first Logos for Mac CD but never attempted to install it. Normally I love to tinker for tinkering's sake alone but I already knew I am more interested in actually running Logos than tinkering with it. With all the initial reports on the Mac version's limitations and difficulties it was easy to just shelve the CD and say, "Next year."

The young seminary graduate I purchased it from was switching back to the Windows version even though he did everything else on his Mac. That is kind of the way I view it. For the time being I would suffer being a dual machine geek. [8-|]

Purchase again? I only gave $25 for it so I'd probably get it for memorabilia. On a slow month I may even try to install it.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/78292#Comment_78292

Yes

Initially delayed Logos 4 upgrade purchase; discussed bible and language learning goals with wife. We looked at upgrades, knowing many resources usable in Logos for Mac 1.2.2 while Logos 4 for Mac improved; peacefully chose Silver for spouse and Platinum for me (included "Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research").

Participating in Alpha testing has been fun and worthwhile - learned more about Logos 4 and Mac OS X - Thankful for opportunity. Tom Philpot's comment "This was an awesome crash report. Do you want to come do Mac tech support for us? " has me praying and pondering future career move to Logos - professional computer geek, who remembers using yellow paper tape in high school to store BASIC programs. When looking for Alpha resource issues, thought about potential win-win: complementary Portfolio upgrade (or all downloadable resources - verify download manager could handle new installation volume and identify any more resources like LXX).

Sigh: wish upgrade discounts from Scholar's Gold were bit better: wife had 25 % discount for Silver upgrade while Platinum had 15 % discount (e.g. hindsight wish - 15% Gold, 20% Platinum, 25% Portfolio). Noticed my $ 425.04 upgrade being $122.59 more than $ 232.50 difference between Platinum and Gold for discounted new Logos 4 Base package purchases plus $ 69.95 minimal Logos 4 cross grade. Goofy observation: Scholar's Library (RA) plus Gold Edition (ND) upgrade plus Platinum (LE) upgrade totals $ 305 more than purchasing new Platinum (LE) with 25 % discount By the way, Triune God provided many blessings and priceless experience last year - have no desire for refund nor regrets purchasing Logos 4 upgrades - also Thankful for some Logos Gold resources and pastoral insights.

Agree with Logos customer service: best package deal is initial purchase - often in December/January with 25 % discount or education discounts.

Part of Alpha testing motivation is knowing many Logos users engaged in ministry activities to share God's Word with the world.

Keep Smiling

Christopher Guest

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/78326#Comment_78326

...best package deal is initial purchase - often in December/January with 25 % discount or education discounts.

It looks as though my best option is to wait until this time next year, with the expectation that I will then be able to buy a 'finalised' product with the same discount.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/78340#Comment_78340

Waiting to purchase is an option - learned many years ago learned a bargain is not a bargain if cannot use it.

For example, looked at Portfolio bundle, but did not enough resources I would use in near future to justify complete bundle. Dreaming: portfolio sub-collection library bundles: Bible History, Original Language, ...

Caveat: past discount history may not reflect future offers. For example, past 3 years had Christmas base package upgrade specials (up to 25 %) with Library Builder collection volumes 1-3 in 2006 and volumes 4-6 in 2007. This year has Christmas specials through January - previously specials ended in December. Also do not know about return of March Madness or Pastor Appreciation.

With Logos 4 upgrade, can use Logos 3 and 4 on Windows virtual machines and Windows laptop along with Logos for Mac 1.2.2 while anticipating Logos 4 improvements. Also noticed blog entry about Logos 4 iPhone App 1.2.2 now offering offline reading - wondering about Apple's upcoming media event later this month - perhaps Logos has reason(s) to extend special pricing through January 31.

Keep Smiling

J. Morris

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/78340#Comment_78340

After it was all said and done, I only saved $78 upgrading from Leaders 3 to Gold 4. (over the discount for a new user)

Granted, I probably went about it the hard way, upgrading from L3 Leaders to L4 Leaders then a few weeks later to L4 Gold. I had $722 on my 'official' history purchases from Logos directly and did expect a bit of a greater discount, but I'm not terribly upset about the upgrade.

If I had to do it over I'd think a little harder about spending the $956.65 on more specific resources that I know I would want and use (ex. more counseling resources). However, even after thinking about going that route, I more than likely would have still upgraded to Gold just because of the great volume of overall resources included in it...

While my wife isn't exactly thrilled about my purchases... [:|] ... I am overall satisfied. (I do 'have' to sell my boat now [:(] )

Tom Gindrup

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/78371#Comment_78371

Yes I would!!! Without a second of hesitation.

I've been using Logos for Windows for MANY years now - got the Mac version when it first came out and always felt like it was lacking. Now that it shares a code-base with the Windows version - and I see what an awesome package the Windows version is - I'm excited about using it on the Mac as well.

Fr. JM

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/78377#Comment_78377

I have no regrets. I went to L4 with an upgrade from scholar to silver. I still use 1.2.2 for all of my real work, but 1.2.2 got all the additional silver resources (cool, huh?). I'm happy to wait for the final version, and feel that buying now helps to support the development of the mac product. For all the trash talk about v1, I found it acceptable for most use. It certainly wasn't as full-featured as L3 for PC, but it did what I needed.

I pray that Bob and the whole Logos for Mac team is blessed in this endeavor, and that their labors yield a harvest of 100 fold, as pastors, teachers, and preachers use this product to feed Christ's flock entrusted to them.

Ben Davenport

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/78382#Comment_78382

I'd wait to buy it and do more research into what exactly I need. I ended up with Platinum--and I see it as an investment (I'll be going to Seminary in a year or two), but I haven't really used it much yet.

Stephen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/78428#Comment_78428

I would absolutely buy it again. I did the research before hand and was aware that the Mac version was still in Beta. I downloaded the free engine for Mac and was tracking the progress with the development. I paid for the upgrade to the Platinum version because I saw it as a great value and wanted to get it while I could still get the discount. This also allowed me to get all the updated books and the windows version so i could start to learn all the functionality without have to wait until the Mac version is complete. I am very pleased with Logos 4 and am willing to go through the Alpha and Beta testing if the final version is on line with the windows version.