Personal benefits of "Learn to Use Biblical Greek…"
I took a few semesters of Greek years ago, and was excited by the claim that "Learn to Use…" would prioritize practical use, hoping that this course might finally help me understand why my Greek studies were useful. However, I'm still feeling that contrasting parallel English translations seems to provide similar benefits (e.g. range of meaning), and Logos makes that method even easier. Greek may be fun at times; but honestly, am I really going to find a translation (via word studies) for anything in the NT that is better than any of the major English Bible translations?
So, on that note, I could use some encouragement:
What benefits to your personal study are you seeing from "Learn to Use Biblical Greek…" (particularly the details of the grammatical units) that you couldn't have obtained by contrasting multiple English translations?
Thanks
Comments
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Pete De Bonte said:
contrasting parallel English translations seems to provide similar benefits
IMO this is much different than a 1st/2nd year Greek class. I consider it more a tools based exegesis/hermeneutics class that people with minimal/no language training can relatively easily begin to apply in their studies. I thoroughly benefited from the DVDs and ended up purchasing the new Mobile Ed format as well, in hopes of gleaning even more from the newly added content.
But as far as just comparing English translations, certainly a good practice, but I think most Logos users would profit significantly from the methods explained in these LA151/LA161
PS. I had a year of Greek and a year of Hebrew before these classes and I'm so glad I still went through this course.
Logos 10 | Dell Inspiron 7373 | Windows 11 Pro 64, i7, 16GB, SSD | iPhone 13 Pro Max
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James Taylor said:
I thoroughly benefited from the DVDs and ended up purchasing the new Mobile Ed format as well, in hopes of gleaning even more from the newly added content.
Hmm, I'd be interested in hearing in what (if any) significant insights the old courses may have had that might not have made it into the new courses.
Pete De Bonte said:contrasting parallel English translations seems to provide similar benefits
With that quote, you did get the core of my discouragement. If people would be willing to share, I think I could be encouraged by hearing some specific examples of where Greek has provided significant benefit to their personal study: benefits that would not be obtainable via parallel English translations.
I'm starting to wonder if the primary benefits of "Learn To Use…" might be in the area of evaluating/understanding commentaries, more than in personally interacting with the text. If so, that might be why I'm somewhat blind to the benefits. I've rarely used commentaries since my final Greek paper years ago, and even less so now that I've joined an international Bible-study organization that even discourages study-Bible use.
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I can only comment on the old DVDs as I have not updated. I do not have a seminary background nor am I in full-time professional (pastor, assistant pastor etc.) ministry. My Greek is stronger than my Hebrew. If I were to summarize the benefits for me it would be:
- Better understanding of the original language tools available in Logos, visual filters, reverse interlinears etc.
- A basic understanding of Greek and Hebrew to allow me better understanding and use of some of the more technical commentaries and lexicons.
- Learn how to use Logos tools to duplicate what is being discussed in commentaries and lexicons. Be a Berean.
- More specific to the point in the OP, how do you understand when different English translations differ significantly in the translation? Why do they differ? What tools and features are available in Logos to assist us in understanding these differences and/or commentaries that may be commenting on these differences? Just because translations differ does not provide any way of understanding why without know the basics and tools available to further research the matter.
There are some great commentaries that benefit from a basic understanding of the original languages and understanding how to use the tools and features in Logos so as to allow me to get more out of those resources. I can provide specific examples of the commentary entries etc. if anyone wants more details.
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John Fidel said:I can only comment on the old DVDs as I have not updated. I do not have a seminary background nor am I in full-time professional (pastor, assistant pastor etc.) ministry. My Greek is stronger than my Hebrew. If I were to summarize the benefits for me it would be:
- Better understanding of the original language tools available in Logos, visual filters, reverse interlinears etc.
- A basic understanding of Greek and Hebrew to allow me better understanding and use of some of the more technical commentaries and lexicons.
- Learn how to use Logos tools to duplicate what is being discussed in commentaries and lexicons. Be a Berean.
- More specific to the point in the OP, how do you understand when different English translations differ significantly in the translation? Why do they differ? What tools and features are available in Logos to assist us in understanding these differences and/or commentaries that may be commenting on these differences? Just because translations differ does not provide any way of understanding why without know the basics and tools available to further research the matter.
There are some great commentaries that benefit from a basic understanding of the original languages and understanding how to use the tools and features in Logos so as to allow me to get more out of those resources. I can provide specific examples of the commentary entries etc. if anyone wants more details.
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John Fidel said:
how do you understand when different English translations differ significantly in the translation?
Thanks John! One of Johnny's stated goals for LA161 is: "…recognize why English translations disagree, even those that are considered literal translations." Perhaps I overlooked that, having already gained it from my past Greek studies; however, I often tell people that my best gain from having studied Greek years ago was a greater confidence that the major English translations are very good.
John Fidel said:Learn how to use Logos tools to duplicate what is being discussed in commentaries and lexicons. Be a Berean.
One of Johnny's goals for the LA161 "Words Studies" unit was a "procedure for doing word studies without dependence on lexicons." I can certainly, for example, survey major English translations for a particular LN#. I did that recently on the difference between LN 6.192 and LN 6.196 across the whole NT. Some English translations use "crown" for both senses, but others distinguish; and Revelation, which I've been studying, has many examples. I ended up with a conclusion that I then found was already in Easton's Bible Dictionary, which was a nice confirmation, but then it hit me: I didn't really need Greek for that (just LN numbers).
John Fidel said:I can provide specific examples of the commentary entries etc. if anyone wants more details.
This discussion has helped me clarify for myself that my main interest is interacting with the primary source. However, as we don't have any stories yet, perhaps I could also learn from hearing people's favorite, personal story of their own Greek application with a secondary source.
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Here's some screenshots of some of my favorite filters applied to the primary texts in order to aid in our discovering exegetical insights on our own.
The point is for the filters to cause these differences to come to the surface easily for people who have little to no language training. Things such as the change from participles to finite verbs (which may be difficult to discern from an English text). Or the changes from singular to plural nouns when singular or plural verbs are used etc. Or the many possible nuances a Hebrew construct can take on (again, not necessarily obvious when comparing English translation). There are many more, but I'm limited by time right now.
Logos 10 | Dell Inspiron 7373 | Windows 11 Pro 64, i7, 16GB, SSD | iPhone 13 Pro Max
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Pete De Bonte said:
However, I'm still feeling that contrasting parallel English translations seems to provide similar benefits (e.g. range of meaning), and Logos makes that method even easier.
But finding the range of meaning is only the first step in proper exegesis. You can't just find a range of meaning for a particular Greek or Hebrew word and then pick the one you like. You need to determine why that one translation is superior to any other in this particular context. The first 43 segments of the Learn to Use Hebrew course concentrate on conducting proper word studies—first in English and then in Hebrew.
If you consult various English translations of Isaiah 7:14, you will find almah rendered as virgin, maiden, young woman… Which is correct? How can you defend your interpretation? The Learn to Use Hebrew course demonstrates that virgin is a perfectly acceptable rendering of that word. But the course does more than that. The method used for finding the meaning of almah can be used to determine the correct meaning of any Hebrew word in the OT. This procedure would also work for Greek in the NT—or Josephus, Philo, et al.
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Jack Caviness said:Pete De Bonte said:
However, I'm still feeling that contrasting parallel English translations seems to provide similar benefits (e.g. range of meaning), and Logos makes that method even easier.
But finding the range of meaning is only the first step in proper exegesis. You can't just find a range of meaning for a particular Greek or Hebrew word and then pick the one you like. You need to determine why that one translation is superior to any other in this particular context.
Concur contrasting of parallel English translations provides insight into original language. Thankful for Bible Word Study capabilities using Logos or Verbum for more depth.
Greek verbal expression has more nuances than English. Thankful for visual filter highlighting that combines hundreds of search results to show verbal range of expression in resources with appropriate tagging:
Logos wiki has => https://wiki.logos.com/Extended_Tips_for_Highlighting_and_Visual_Filters#Examples_of_visual_filters
Thankful can link resources for parallel scrolling along with hiding chapter and verse numbers.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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