Old notes and markup from Logos 3
None of the notes which I wrote on 3 and none of the extensive visual markup I used has been transferred to 4. That seriously limits my ability to use Logos 4 regularly in this test phase. Or am I doing something wrong?
I'm also assuming that all notes I use on version 4 will be lost once this test version is terminated ...
Comments
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Correct; you should not count on anything you put into 4.0 during the beta surving the beta phase. (We'll keep the data working if we can, but please don't count on that with a beta -- we need the flexibility to change file formats, etc. if necessary before shipping.)
We do not have a 3.0 notes import at this time, either. If we implement a 3.0 notes import, there will be some problems -- we're using a different rich-text engine, so some formatting would be lost of messed up. Also, many books are being re-built for 4.0, which would prevent some (but not all) highlighting from lining up in the newer resources.
We're open to your feedback on how much you want the important/can live with the imperfections.
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For me I can live with import as text only.. but appreciate a lot of folks wont be able to..
I was hoping for a html based notes in v4 so I could add pictures into the note file again, but as you are using rtf will give this up as a lost cause..
if you could add a export notes to plain text file in beta, we could at least save what we had put in, and the its a copy/paste back in should note format change...
Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have
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Bob,
I'm not a computer expert so could I just clarify something: are you saying that when the new, finished Logos 4 will be downloaded for general users, they will lose a lot of their markup? This would be impossible for me to bear and I simply wouldn't download Logos 4 as a result. Not only is my Logos 3 shot through with multiple important notes and highlighting, I've invested a lot of time in developing my own mark up for a poetic analysis of the psalms and have spent hours applying this to various Hebrew Psalms. I don't have the time to repeat all that.
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I can't imagine every moving to Logos 4 if notes and highlighting won't be imported with nearly complete integrity. We have YEARS worth of study notes, cross references, and highlighting do these resources. PLEASE PLEASE give this serious attention. I would think it would be huge loss of credibitily to the company to not be able to promise that their users past years of work will not be lost.
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WynLaidig said:
I would think it would be huge loss of credibitily to the company to not be able to promise that their users past years of work will not be lost.
I personally have zero interest in importing notes. I have none of significant value and the few i do have can be cut and pasted. That being said I think WynLaidig is right. Not giving serious attention to the importing of people's labor with each upgrade casts doubt on the reliability of Logos as a trustworthy investment in the future. Even though I have not used notes in the past, mainly because of some of their shortcomings, I would be hesitant to use the more advanced notes features in 4.0 in the fear that 10 years from now they would not be able to move with me.
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Philip and Joe, you are right. I would never buy another Microsoft Word product if they did not allow my hard work to be compatible with their future versions. I think Logos needs to at least provide a "compatibility mode" for Logos 4 that allows everything in L3 to be retained in L4. It is possible. The question is...will Logos spend the money to do it?
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As Philip Spitzer said, I do not use the Logos notes features in version 3. However I do use the markups with some degree of simplicity. It won't kill me if those aren't imported but the notes. Egad if my decade+ of Bible notes were suddenly inaccessible I'd see that as a monstrous problem. So for those in your situation I cannot conceive of not being able to import or use them.WynLaidig said:I can't imagine every moving to Logos 4 if notes and highlighting won't be imported with nearly complete integrity. We have YEARS worth of study notes, cross references, and highlighting do these resources. PLEASE PLEASE give this serious attention. I would think it would be huge loss of credibitily to the company to not be able to promise that their users past years of work will not be lost.
Note import is a definite requirement.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
It would definitely be a huge loss of credibility and also,cast some doubt about what else am I investing time and money in today not working in future updates.WynLaidig said:I can't imagine every moving to Logos 4 if notes and highlighting won't be imported with nearly complete integrity. We have YEARS worth of study notes, cross references, and highlighting do these resources. PLEASE PLEASE give this serious attention. I would think it would be huge loss of credibitily to the company to not be able to promise that their users past years of work will not be lost.
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Lets remember everyone this is only the first beta. Lets wait and see what is down the road.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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Lynden Williams said:
Lets remember everyone this is only the first beta. Lets wait and see what is down the road.
good to always keep in mind, but the impression has been given by Phil G and Bob that they are considering not making an import utility or function available at all. We are simply trying to greatly persuade them away from that course.
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Bob,
not only do I share the others concersn about notes, which are very important for me (I'm writing a doctorate and have put a lot of notes on Logos 3) but I want to emphasise my real concern about markup. I have to do poetic analysis of Hebrew, and have developed my own complex markup system for this, investing days into shaping up my Psalms. If that were lost I simply would refuse to update Logos and buy anything new. Could you please say something about this?
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This is also the impression I get. And it would be a catastrophe.
I'd like to continue working on my markup, but can't do so with peace of mind until I get confirmation that importing markup intact will be a real possibility.
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I would be very disappointed too if the notes and markup databases could not be transferred across.
I keep notes in Word, as the L3 notes feature did not have the feature set I needed, but I add a note to indicate that there is a note for that passage.
I have also generated a great number of markups, and I don't want to have to go through and put them all in again.
Please give serious consideration to creating tools to transfer all our hard work into v4. Like others, I would have reservations about using v4 if this significant time investment was simply lost.
Thanks
Richard0 -
I also have invested countless hours highlighting and adding notes in Logos 3. I'd be extremely disappointed if those didn't transfer to Logos 4.
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I don't want to give the impression I am being harsh or ungrateful with my strong opinion here but notes are hugely important for me. So much so, I have another system set up that doesn't involve Libronix notes but can export a note to Microsoft Word easily. And I can search across all my notes for the past decade. I value Libronix for so many other reasons and am very grateful to all Logos staff for their hard work and efforts to making such a fine product.
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Simply put: if Logos 4 won't allow me to import my notes and especially my markups (which I painstakingly do every time I read ancient texts and modern commentaries and reference works), I will NOT upgrade to Logos 4.
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Bob Pritchett said:
We're open to your feedback on how much you want the important/can live with the imperfections.
Bob, is it possible to import the text only and then have Logos 4 go through the notes and highlight verses, etc the way it does when we are typing? This would allow a two step process from a technical perspective a) Import text b) update verse highlighting.
This would mean that we will lose specifically added highlights (i.e. where we have added a link to a book manually), but we would have the text, which we could in theory search through and work with. I'm guessing that it would be possible to also import the specific verse highlights.
Also, I'm assuming from what you are saying that even though the old format is XML based, that the new format is not - is this what the problem is?
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+1 on Visual Markup.
I spent months creating Visual Markup Palettes / Styles
I spent months marking up my by Bible.
I will be totally disappointed if this cannot be preserved.JK
MacBookPro Retina 15" Late 2013 2.6GHz RAM:16GB SSD:500GB macOS Sierra 10.12.3 | iPhone 7 Plus iOS 10.2.1
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DarrylBurling said:
Bob, is it possible to import the text only and then have Logos 4 go through the notes and highlight verses, etc the way it does when we are typing? This would allow a two step process from a technical perspective a) Import text b) update verse highlighting.
This would mean that we will lose specifically added highlights (i.e. where we have added a link to a book manually), but we would have the text, which we could in theory search through and work with. I'm guessing that it would be possible to also import the specific verse highlights.
Also, I'm assuming from what you are saying that even though the old format is XML based, that the new format is not - is this what the problem is?
As a sometime programmer (NOT for Logos), I'm sure the text from 3.x Notes could be converted, but linking to Resources and Formatting might be lost... Markups would probably require a decent amount of work to convert depending what tags are used to link them...
That said, I would be upset at losing my Markups, but could live with it... I can't say that about my Notes... I have to be able to retain those links, or I will never be able trust that feature, limiting my use and endorsement of the product... Formatting I can lose...
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Bob Pritchett said:
Correct; you should not count on anything you put into 4.0 during the beta surving the beta phase. (We'll keep the data working if we can, but please don't count on that with a beta -- we need the flexibility to change file formats, etc. if necessary before shipping.)
We do not have a 3.0 notes import at this time, either. If we implement a 3.0 notes import, there will be some problems -- we're using a different rich-text engine, so some formatting would be lost of messed up. Also, many books are being re-built for 4.0, which would prevent some (but not all) highlighting from lining up in the newer resources.
We're open to your feedback on how much you want the important/can live with the imperfections.
I respect the technical difficulties, and time limitations but as others have said if its just thrown in the too hard basket it will loose good will and credablity with customers and trust in L4. Logos 3.0 Notes were clearly not up to scratch and underlying changes had to be made, but somehow the impact needs to be minimized.
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Just for the sake of emphasis:
I cannot lose my markup
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I would prefer to have my markups and notes inconsistently imported than not imported at all, but in a layer that can be turned off in the venn diagram box on those resources that it just didn't work on. But if there's any chance that it works on some of my books, I'd prefer the attempt
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
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I have a major interest in importing my notes files. I have quite a few and I do not wish to have to recreate them. I guess I can copy and paste.
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I just joined the beta program a couple of days ago and have not even yet seen it running without significant lag problems (waiting 1.5-5 minutes for the program to finish "thinking" and allow me to click somewhere else). I was going through these forums to see if anyone else had the same problem and how I might troubleshoot it.
Then I came across this thread. I am dumbfounded. I have been using Logos since 1993. I have piles of notes. Since highlighting has been introduced, I have been highlighting all the texts in my hymnal's lectionary at the rate of three a week so that I can see lectionary readings as I read through my Bible apart from sermon preparation.
I can't think of a parallel to this abandonment of data in another program. There ought to at least be some useful way to export existing notes that preserves the order in a user's various files and leaves notes that are attached to verses right where they were in the various Bibles. I understand that text formats change and that makes it difficult to put a note back on a particular word once you have completely rebuilt a resource in a new format, but the references don't change. You must include some way to use all this data that I and many of my students have been accumulating for years! I would lose everything!
I'm with Philip. I don't see how I could migrate to a new version of Logos and leave all that data behind. My interest in using Logos in the central way that I now do would plummet. I would lose confidence in the company. I would reflect that honestly in the classroom. I would recommend to our seminary that they drop the requirement that all students must purchase Logos and require them instead to purchase a program of their choosing. You can't just abandon heavy users like that. I can't believe I'm even reading this. I hope I'm getting something wrong.
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AaronFrey said:
I can't believe I'm even reading this. I hope I'm getting something wrong.
One thing you can be sure of is that Logos is listening. don't give up on them. They are a very good company and I believe they take issues like this very seriously. They may not have something ready by day 1, but 3.0 and 4.0 will be able to run on the same machine, or you can choose to stick with 3.0 after the initial release and give them time to work through these issues. Right now their focus is on getting 4.0 out the door.
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You're right, Phil. I'm starting to remember similar talk flying around at the time of the big switch from LLS to LDLS. The solution ended up not being particularly elegant, but there was a solution. It is important, however, even as I remember that I survived the LLS-LDLS conversion, that I make this feedback strong. Bob said he wanted to know how important some form of migration tool for notes and highlighting would be. For me, a loss of highlighting would be sad and frustrating. The complete abandonment of old notes data, however, would forever change my trust in the program and the company.
Not that it's changed already, mind you! I mean, this forum exists for a reason and I know that Bob is reading and that he cares. I've seen him respond to tougher posts and tougher issues than this with extraordinary honesty and integrity.
I'm already calmer. Please pardon me. Pulse slowing. Pressure dropping. Engaging higher reserves from the patience reservoirs. Will gladly wait and see.
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Philip Spitzer said:AaronFrey said:
I'm already calmer. Please pardon me. Pulse slowing. Pressure dropping. Engaging higher reserves from the patience reservoirs. Will gladly wait and see
We have all had to come to that point :-)
I'm still trying to get to that point Re: handouts.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
I would like to cast my vote with those wishing to have a way to move notes and markups over. Losing my notes would be tough.0
