Off topic but a plea to learn broad church history.
I know I harp on church history- three branches - western (Catholic/Protestant), Byzantine (Eastern Orthodox) and Oriental Orthodox. And that the Catholic Church has Byzantine and Oriental rites. And you go "there goes MJ again." But today the BBC has an article that show why it matters politically: Pope Francis in historic talks with Russian Orthodox leader
A couple of excerpts for those who don't read the whole article:
BBC said:The Russian Orthodox Church said earlier the "persecution of Christians" in the Middle East and North Africa would be the key theme.
The two leaders later signed a joint declaration on this issue.
and
BBC said:Ahead of the meeting, the foreign policy chief of the Russian Orthodox Church, Metropolitan Illarion, said here were still differences between the two churches, in particular on western Ukraine.
One particular issue is the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, which follows eastern church rites but answers to the Holy See.
The Russian Orthodox Church has considered western Ukraine its traditional territory, resenting papal influence there.
So please, if you don't know anything but Western Church history, please look at the history offerings of the Orthodox Logos group.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
Comments
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The base packages are pretty weak on church history... what do you recommend?
גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה
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In need of bids:
Select Works on Orthodox History, Part 1
Select Works on Orthodox History, Part 2
Current available - none of my favorites but from what is available:
History of the Holy Eastern Church (6 vols.) by J. M. Neale
The Orthodox Liturgy: The Development of the Eucharistic Liturgy in the Byzantine Rite by Hugh Wybrew
The Offices of the Oriental Church, with an Historical Introduction by Nicholas Bjerring
Prayers from the East: Traditions of Eastern Christianity by Richard Marsh
The Syriac Church and Fathers by De Lacy O'Leary
The Canticles of the Christian Church: Eastern and Western in Early and Medieval Times by James Mearns
The reason for many of these being history of liturgy, the most obvious differences are in style of worship and prayer. The theological differences are small but often as much the manner of expression as actual theological difference. I don't know of a Logos source that covers the persecution and relative dismise of the North African and Oriental Christians.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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thanks
גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה
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[Y] could you tell us your favorites?
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Limited to things currently available
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A History of Christianity in Asia: Beginnings to 1500 by Samuel Hugh Moffett
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The Lost History of Christianity: The Thousand-Year Golden Age of the Church in the Middle East, Africa, and Asia--and How It Died by Philip Jenkins
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The Lost Sutras of Jesus: Unlocking the Ancient Wisdom of the Xian Monks by Ray Riegert (Editor), Thomas Moore
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Gnosis on the Silk Road: Gnostic Parables, Hymns & Prayers from Central Asia by Hans-Joachim Klimkeit (Author, Translator)
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Falasha Anthology (Yale Judaica Series) by Wolf Leslau (Author)
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Byzantine Slav Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, Its Origin and Evolution by Casimir Kucharek
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I often feel that the church history is a history of quarrels and the secular history is a list of wars. I've tried to find books about the daily life of the ordinary people in Byzantine and how they believed and worshiped, but so far I have not been lucky.
Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 11
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[Y]
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In a very strange way books by Kyriacos C. Markides might be of interest, Veli.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Francis said:
Available in print, it would seem, not in Logos.
Correct - the earlier list was the Logos based list ... I suspect Gabe might have some other solid suggestions available in Logos. But the latter list is personal favorites gleaned from 50 years of quirky reading in world religion/Christianity. I know Gabe is trying to get at least one book on my favorites list.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Pastor Glenn Crouch
St Paul's Lutheran Church
Kalgoorlie-Boulder, Western Australia0 -
I'll admit that I don't know much about Eastern Orthodox christianity. I can, however, pick up the Orthodox Bronze package for around $50. How would you rate its contents relative to that price?
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Thanks MJ! I like to know more on Estern and Coptic Christianity- please recommend more books on their Dogmatic Theology. Thanks!
MJ. Smith said:Limited to things currently available
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A History of Christianity in Asia: Beginnings to 1500 by Samuel Hugh Moffett
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The Lost History of Christianity: The Thousand-Year Golden Age of the Church in the Middle East, Africa, and Asia--and How It Died by Philip Jenkins
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The Lost Sutras of Jesus: Unlocking the Ancient Wisdom of the Xian Monks by Ray Riegert (Editor), Thomas Moore
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Gnosis on the Silk Road: Gnostic Parables, Hymns & Prayers from Central Asia by Hans-Joachim Klimkeit (Author, Translator)
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Falasha Anthology (Yale Judaica Series) by Wolf Leslau (Author)
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Byzantine Slav Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, Its Origin and Evolution by Casimir Kucharek
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The Coptic Christian Heritage: History, Faith and Culture by Lois M. Farag (Author)
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MJ. Smith said:
Limited to things currently available
I have the dead tree version of this; it is a truly excellent book.
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MJ. Smith said:
Thank you for flagging these. It sounds like you would recommend them even for folks who already have some of the other works. I've put in bids at the current "recommended" price.
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David Achorn said:
How would you rate its contents relative to that price?
An absolute steal. There is enough liturgy in it to give you a real sense of Orthodoxy and enough Biblical materials and history to make you understand why it is so distinctive without being theological all that different - emphasis different yes, basic beliefs, no.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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The Orthodox, Eastern or Oriental, aren't really into dogmatic theology. To understand them you need to immerse yourself in liturgy and patristics. However, there are some theologians well worth reading, in and out of Logos. I'm sure Gabe could recommend some additions.
- anything by Alexander Schmeemann
- anything by John Breck
- anything by Sebastian Brock (Syriac)
- anything by John Meyendorff
- anything by Gregory Palamas - a primary example of Eastern thought diverging from the Western
- Lossky, Vladimir. The Mystical Theology of the Eastern Orthodox Church
- Theosis: Deification in Christian Theology (2 vols.) by Finlan, Stephen, Kharlamov, Vladimir
- Light from the East: Authors and Themes in Orthodox Theology by Aidan Nichols
- Two Thousand Years of Coptic Christianity by Otto F. A. Meinardus
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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OK. I bought the Orthodox Bronze bundle and the first thing that jumps out at me is their emphasis on the church fathers and history. I like that very much. There is a ton of great stuff in this bundle.
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