This Week's L7 Post

Robert M. Warren

Anyone else have the feeling that L7 is much closer than this fall?

Light forum activity from usual private-beta suspects. (MJ is designated decoy.)
6.XX releases getting kind of mundane.
Dan Pritchett makes cameo forum appearance. (But no generator picture.)

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Comments

Matthew C Jones

Anyone else have the feeling that L7 is much closer than this fall?

No. But they didn't tell me about the layoffs either.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/822900#Comment_822900

I have reason to believe that there are still a couple of features we will see in Logos Now before Logos 7 ... and because many features will have been tested in Logos Now, I would suspect less of a drop off before Logos 7. I think the decreased activity is related to:

decreased questions with better training and documents
decreased bugs with the cleaner production cycle
decreased time on Logos - graduations, end of year activities, weddings, births ... been a string of such things.

mike

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/822905#Comment_822905

Want to know what's in Logos7? Just look at Logos Now's features.

It has more advance (technical) features than average users would & can use. So for people like me and many other.. not so exciting. I wish LN has more polished basic features rather than technical stuffs.

Also, as a LN's subscriber, I'm not excited to see what's new on features, I'm more excited to see the new base packages in L7. [H]

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/822908#Comment_822908

My curiousity is 'the bet'. I remember reading about Now outside the old gold mine in Ouray.

I figured Now's cost wouldn't be offset in L7 net pricing (crossgrade). Bob was too squirrel-y.

So, I look forward to see how much I saved.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/822908#Comment_822908

Want to know what's in Logos7? Just look at Logos Now's features.

I'm not sure that's entirely true. At least I hope it's not entirely true.

I think that the paid-for features of Logos 7 will basically be what's in Logos Now. But I'm also hoping that they'll be a lot of other improvements (e.g. to searching) that aren't in Logos Now, but will appear in the Logos 7 core engine. In other words, I think there'll be a number of improvements that won't be monetised.

(For the conspiracy theorists: I have no inside knowledge of what will/won't be in Logos 7. I'm guessing/hoping, just like everyone else.)

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/822905#Comment_822905

decreased questions with better training and documents

This is the big thing for me. Logos has only changed incrementally between L4 and L6, and the official training and documentation has significantly improved. That means (1) there are fewer questions, and (2) many more people know the answers to the questions. It's rare nowadays for me to come on the forum and find good questions that haven't already been answered.

Whyndell Grizzard

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/822926#Comment_822926

Core engine is all I need- and that will depend on the price

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/822925#Comment_822925

But I'm also hoping that they'll be a lot of other improvements (e.g. to searching) that aren't in Logos Now, but will appear in the Logos 7 core engine. In other words,

That is my hope as well.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/822933#Comment_822933

Core engine is all I need- and that will depend on the price

I don't know how to take this. Is that a frowning face? I can't tell if you are making a joke or not. For clarification: the "core engine" is, and has always, been free. If you were being serious, then what you mean is a "cross grade," which WILL depend upon the price.

mike

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/822926#Comment_822926

This is the big thing for me. Logos has only changed incrementally between L4 and L6, and the official training and documentation has significantly improved. That means (1) there are fewer questions, and (2) many more people know the answers to the questions. It's rare nowadays for me to come on the forum and find good questions that haven't already been answered.

or (3) a massive increase in unknowledgeable passive people not asking questions...

Don Awalt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/822905#Comment_822905

I have reason to believe that there are still a couple of features we will see in Logos Now before Logos 7 ... and because many features will have been tested in Logos Now, I would suspect less of a drop off before Logos 7. I think the decreased activity is related to:

decreased questions with better training and documents

decreased bugs with the cleaner production cycle

decreased time on Logos - graduations, end of year activities, weddings, births ... been a string of such things.

I am not sure I agree with the "less bugs" and the reasons for less time on Logos. The new features are interesting but not "mainstream" in how I work, so I don't use them much. Yet several significant bugs and promised improvements for incomplete features still remain from ages ago, which has slowly caused me to use the product less, stop using certain features, and turn to alternatives - it gets tiring to keep complaining without effecting any change.

For example I can do searches where results are not highlighted; I cannot export text in the same form I am looking at; I have over 300 personal books and the tools to manage compiling, filtering, updating, etc. this quantity of resources are virtually non-existent. So I have changed my "workflow" so I hardly ever search in Notes any more. I export Bible extracts to refine for my Bible studies from another source. And I haven't added another Personal Book in quite awhile. I have have started buying Kindle resources again because I can't see these 300+ books on mobile devices. The "stats" probably show these features are not that well used, but in reality they don't work to user satisfaction, at least in my case. I try not to complain anymore unless I see a post that shows a dramatically different view than what I see.

It seems to me that new features are a significant priority over refining existing features, and unless people's workflow is being revised significantly every 6 weeks or so, usage and activity on the forums will drop.

I'll go back in my cave now. [:(]

Dave Thawley

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/822925#Comment_822925

Want to know what's in Logos7? Just look at Logos Now's features.

I'm not sure that's entirely true. At least I hope it's not entirely true.

I think that the paid-for features of Logos 7 will basically be what's in Logos Now. But I'm also hoping that they'll be a lot of other improvements (e.g. to searching) that aren't in Logos Now, but will appear in the Logos 7 core engine. In other words, I think there'll be a number of improvements that won't be monetised.

(For the conspiracy theorists: I have no inside knowledge of what will/won't be in Logos 7. I'm guessing/hoping, just like everyone else.)

^Typical response from an inside operative :-)

scooter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/822947#Comment_822947

mike said :or (3) a massive increase in unknowledgeable passive people not asking questions...

I continue to populate this field. Like the song said: ''1st gear, all right...''

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/822952#Comment_822952

I'm in Don's corner. And I don't ask questions period. If a manual, really fine. I don't search videos.

I unloaded my FL apps ... tired of battling getting recently purchased books, linking, etc. Done.

I watched the Now features. Yawn.

Mainly, for now, it's just new great books. And the quiet peace of reading on Libby. Simplicity.

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/822953#Comment_822953

Want to know what's in Logos7? Just look at Logos Now's features.

I'm not sure that's entirely true. At least I hope it's not entirely true.

I think that the paid-for features of Logos 7 will basically be what's in Logos Now. But I'm also hoping that they'll be a lot of other improvements (e.g. to searching) that aren't in Logos Now, but will appear in the Logos 7 core engine. In other words, I think there'll be a number of improvements that won't be monetised.

(For the conspiracy theorists: I have no inside knowledge of what will/won't be in Logos 7. I'm guessing/hoping, just like everyone else.)

^Typical response from an inside operative :-)

" . . . i can neither confirm nor deny . . . " [;)] as for me, I REALLY don't know what is going on. I'm like Admiral Stockdale, for those of you who remember things like that.

Lynden O. Williams

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/822966#Comment_822966

My crystal ball says to expect L7 in the fall, if it ships this year at all.

Disclaimer: I have not dusted that crystal ball in several months.

Jan Krohn

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/822972#Comment_822972

Someone who has the gift of prophecy, please respond!!

Whyndell Grizzard

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/822946#Comment_822946

Core engine is all I need- and that will depend on the price

I don't know how to take this. Is that a frowning face? I can't tell if you are making a joke or not. For clarification: the "core engine" is, and has always, been free. If you were being serious, then what you mean is a "cross grade," which WILL depend upon the price.

yes cross grade- and yes serious about price- cash only stage of life - so hope it is reasonable.

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/822908#Comment_822908

Also, as a LN's subscriber, I'm not excited to see what's new on features, I'm more excited to see the new base packages in L7.

As a non-Now subscriber, never mind V/L7, I (basically) just want [b]new base package offerings[/b] and maybe new XYZ Studies Bundles.

I'm expecting the Verbum lineup to be heavily revamped, given both that they didn't do too much with the last switch, and that there are a whole bunch of newer resources that have found their way into newer base packages (e.g., Anglican Platinum & the whole Orthodox lineup) that make as much or often more sense to have in Verbum's lineup, such as various Latin language resources and western patristic materials.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/822992#Comment_822992

yes cross grade- and yes serious about price- cash only stage of life - so hope it is reasonable.

I fully understand. I hope so too! [Y]

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/823010#Comment_823010

Alabama are you actually wearing a tie in front of a tent????? Just curious we are a little less informal on camping trips up here in Canada. [H]

-Dan

Donnie Hale

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/822925#Comment_822925

(For the conspiracy theorists: I have no inside knowledge of what will/won't be in Logos 7. I'm guessing/hoping, just like everyone else.)

We conspiracy theorists distrust those who explicitly deny their part in the conspiracy. [*-)]

-Donnie

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/822952#Comment_822952

I am not sure I agree with the "less bugs"

Have you read the release notes? They are clearly working through the longstanding bug list. And the number of bugs reported for a given time period is statistically dropping. I have no knowledge of internally reported bugs but have been told they are dropping as well. I was referring specifically to bugs not to design issues where the user base wants things to function in a different manner.

The "stats" probably show these features are not that well used, but in reality they don't work to user satisfaction

I agree.

It seems to me that new features are a significant priority over refining existing features,

Likely, but it seems to me that the priority has been given to generating data for new searches, preclassified interactive presentations and visual filter presentations.

Another company with software I use also uses a UserVoice type request system. However, they indicate whether a request is a small, medium or large request. I know that many Logos users are frustrated by the lack of progress on issues that seem "small" to a user but are major architectural changes in the system. I have a number of pet peeves in Logos and have found that when there is support from fellow users and the request is not architectural in nature, nagging eventually works - silence doesn't.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/823013#Comment_823013

Alabama are you actually wearing a tie in front of a tent?????

Nope. A woggle and wood badge neckerchief.

Deacon Steve

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/823048#Comment_823048

[Y]

mab

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/823052#Comment_823052

If L7 runs faster, especially with indexing, I'd be perfectly happy. L6 is so much better than before, but there's still a lot of us with traditional hard drives that appreciate performance improvements over other things.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/823064#Comment_823064

If L7 runs faster, especially with indexing, I'd be perfectly happy. L6 is so much better than before

I am content with L6 but would be happy with any performance increases. The main reason I look forward to L7 is the new base package lineup.

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/823048#Comment_823048

Alabama are you actually wearing a tie in front of a tent?????

Nope. A woggle and wood badge neckerchief.

That's cool neck tie would have been too... but also a necktie would have seemed a bit overdressed... but want to look good for God who is everywhere... [8-|]

-Dan

Virgil Buttram

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/823048#Comment_823048

Nope. A woggle and wood badge neckerchief.

What critter?

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/823077#Comment_823077

What critter?

FOX Patrol, of course.

Bill Shewmaker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/823099#Comment_823099

What critter?

FOX Patrol, of course.

I'm a Good Ol' OWL, but an honorary Fox (staff instructor) and a good ol' staffer too.

Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/823163#Comment_823163

Logos 6 was released in October 2014 and there have been multiple references to aiming for a two year cycle.

Flashback from https://community.logos.com/forums/t/99549.aspx

2. Shorter cycles. (This is the new part.)

We're not going to retreat to three or four year release cycles. We believe it's a false conceit that simply taking more time will fix everything. Some quality issues don't show up until thousands of people test thousands of combinations of hardware, network connection, and other software installs. Some quality issues are differences of opinion, and we need to hear the other opinions to know a change needs to be made.

In a world where the iPhone is updated annually and that feels (to some of us) like not often enough, where Google Chrome silently updates every six weeks, and where Facebook and other web sites change behavior, layout, and functionality every single day, it's just weird for an increasingly-connected product to go three years without any significant changes.

A shorter cycle means new ideas get feedback faster. A shorter cycle means bad ideas don't waste as many resources before being abandoned. And a shorter cycle lets us serve everyone. If you don't like shorter cycles, you can just skip them. Make your own 'long cycle' by opting out of the short-cycle offering for one, two, or three years.

[...]

- We're considering subscription content. We license Proclaim by subscription, and offer Pro Media by subscription: each month is just gets better, as we release new content every month. Logos Bible Software could benefit from the same model, especially with our online content and 'never ending' data sets. We could make 10 more Interactives (like Psalms Explorer, Feasts and Sacrifices, etc.) and sit on them for two years until they're 'monetized' in a Logos 7 release. We could create 20 more sets of Teaching Slides and Teaching Videos (deSilva) and included them in that big release. But in reality these are built one at a time, over many months. Wouldn't some users rather subscribe and get new content every month rather than have that new content 'sit in a drawer' for two years, helping no one, waiting for the big bundle release?

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/823165#Comment_823165

Logos 6 was released in October 2014 and there have been multiple references to aiming for a two year cycle.

Flashback from https://community.logos.com/forums/t/99549.aspx

Based upon this and other discussions, I expect that it will probably be released this fall but there are no guarantees.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/823163#Comment_823163

I'm a Good Ol' OWL

Who? [;)]

Bill Shewmaker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/823177#Comment_823177

I'm a Good Ol' OWL

Who?

Hooty "who", Hooty "who" [:D]

Virgil Buttram

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/823163#Comment_823163

What critter?

FOX Patrol, of course.

I'm a Good Ol' OWL, but an honorary Fox (staff instructor) and a good ol' staffer too.

Antelope here. Seminary has prevented me from staffing.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/823099#Comment_823099

What critter?

FOX Patrol, of course.

Logos 6 was released in October 2014 and there have been multiple references to aiming for a two year cycle.

Flashback from https://community.logos.com/forums/t/99549.aspx

Based upon this and other discussions, I expect that it will probably be released this fall but there are no guarantees.

+1 [Y] looking forward to Faithlife deciding when to release Logos 7 (from prior discussions, likewise speculate Fall release).

Keep Smiling [:)]

(‾◡◝)

Anyone else have the feeling that L7 is much closer than this fall?

Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you. For you yourselves know full well that the day of the L7 will come just like a thief in the night.