BST The Message of Worship in VYRSO
The Bible Speaks Today (Series) THE MESSAGE OF WORSHIP in VYRSO
https://vyrso.com/product/55626/the-message-of-worship
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Thanks - great book
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NB.Mick said:
Maybe so (I expect nothing else from that series), but it's not orderable for me, probably those regional publishing rights once again.
Same here, I wish they clearly stated on the website that the resource is only available for purchase in specific regions rather than the cryptic message you get telling you there's a problem in the checkout system they are working on fixing...very poor form Faithlife but misleading messages is what I've come to expect from them these days.
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How very strange!
Can someone from Faithlife Please can you clarify this?
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Hi all, unfortunately this title is restricted to the U.S. and Canada by the publisher. I apologize for the inconvenience.
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Thanks Erin
This is very ironic because the author is very much British! As are most of the BST series.[:)]
But the same the restrictions do not apply to BST the Message of the Church as I was able to purchase it a while back? [:)]
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Erin Land said:
Hi all, unfortunately this title is restricted to the U.S. and Canada by the publisher. I apologize for the inconvenience.
This is an unacceptable situation. FL is aware there is a restricted set of customers to which they can sell this resource and yet allow it to be handled at the checkout stage with a misleading promise that there is a technical issue preventing the sale and a solution is in the works. Once again with the Vyrso model of business adopted by Bob Pritchett ideas like openness, honesty and integrity are being thrown out the door in order to make a buck. The correct and simple solution would be to have an explanatory disclaimer on the web page of the product in regards to the publisher restrictions on the product's sale.
Erin please note I think you do a wonderful job wIthin the bounds of what your leadership allows you to do.
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Disciple of Christ (doc) said:
This is an unacceptable situation.
I can understand your frustration... there are many things that I don't like about Logos' little brother. On the other hand, the simple solution would be to restrict the Vyrso store to the US & Canada. [:P]
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alabama24 said:
On the other hand, the simple solution would be to restrict the Vyrso store to the US & Canada.
Oh, bite your tongue. I mean that respectfully, of course [:D]
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I was being quite snarky. [:)]
The Vyrso website needs quite a bit of help. If it were a home for sale, the listing would say it's a real "fixer upper" and in need of some "TLC."
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alabama24 said:Disciple of Christ (doc) said:
This is an unacceptable situation.
I can understand your frustration... there are many things that I don't like about Logos' little brother. On the other hand, the simple solution would be to restrict the Vyrso store to the US & Canada.
You should work for FL because that's how they think. It would not fix the much larger issues of openness honesty and integrity that underly the marketing on this site. Instead of running around trying to think up the next big idea to make more money the leadership of this company needs to slow down and sort out its operational issues.
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Disciple of Christ (doc) said:
It would not fix the much larger issues of openness honesty and integrity
it would seem quite a stretch to say Logos lacks honesty and integrity. really? It seems more of an issue like this:
"when I purchase books in Germany that only have rights in Canada/US, I am not aware of those limitations until check out. And even then, I only get a message that speaks to a "technical issue." This is not accurate and makes for a frustrating and inconsistent purchasing experience. Would Logos please address this issue? I sure would like this resolved. Maybe you could notate on the product page if this work has regional restrictions. Please reply to this thread, I'd like to keep updated. This has happened a few different times and leaves me with a negative experience.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Disciple of Christ (doc) said:
You should work for FL because that's how they think.
It isn't how they think, nor is it how I think... although I could be pushed in that direction.
I am a Mac user. I expect excellence. I am also a realist. I know (from FL's comments in the past) that Vyrso is essentially a hobby and doesn't return a great deal for their investment. Because of this, Vyrso resources are sometimes substandard (as is the website). I can empathize with you, but I would rather HAVE Vyrso than NOT HAVE Vyrso. I like cheap books. I like to have them in my Logos library. Even the substandard "non-calendar" devotionals.
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It is not a stretch at all Friedrich to say they lack honesty and integrity. This is just one example of why I say this and will continue to say this when I see examples of it. This company has been on a slippery slide for a long time now and I am sick of forum MVP's who make excuses for them and in doing so show a total lack of respect to fellow customers rights to raise concerns about this company - we are all paying customers and without us FL would be nothing. Along with these MVP's I am tired of the leadership of the company who sit back and allow these problems to continue and leave it up to frontline staff to say we are sorry for the inconvenience. That does not cut it anymore. So we are going to have to respectfully disagree on our view of this topic. You are ok to continue to accept their laziness and inaction that leads to false misrepresnotations to customers and I am not. A spade is a spade no matter what an you look at it.
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If they were totally upfront and honest Alabama with their marketing and in what they communicate to customers I would not need to raise these issues. I am being real i just ask that this company be real with its customers also and stop the misleading of customers through known misinformation that is in their control and they choose to do nothing about. To excuse this behaviour as being ok because 'it's a hobby' is not being real, it is supporting the continuation of a lie, I agree there is a place for Vyrso books, but there are some books that should not have a place in Vysro and I believe there is no place for continuing to allow known misleading information to be communicated to customers - that is not simply substandard, it is simply a lie.
alabama24 said:Disciple of Christ (doc) said:You should work for FL because that's how they think.
It isn't how they think, nor is it how I think... although I could be pushed in that direction.
I am a Mac user. I expect excellence. I am also a realist. I know (from FL's comments in the past) that Vyrso is essentially a hobby and doesn't return a great deal for their investment. Because of this, Vyrso resources are sometimes substandard (as is the website). I can empathize with you, but I would rather HAVE Vyrso than NOT HAVE Vyrso. I like cheap books. I like to have them in my Logos library. Even the substandard "non-calendar" devotionals.
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Disciple of Christ (doc) said:
I am sick of forum MVP's who make excuses for them and in doing so show a total lack of respect to fellow customers rights to raise concerns about this company
Why is your opinion more valid than another's? If you don't want discourse, don't post in a public forum!
I'm sure this is another recent example of "making excuses" [;)]
alabama24 said:There is no excuse for what has happened.
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alabama24 said:Disciple of Christ (doc) said:
I am sick of forum MVP's who make excuses for them and in doing so show a total lack of respect to fellow customers rights to raise concerns about this company
Why is your opinion more valid than another's? If you don't want discourse, don't post in a public forum!
I'm sure this is another recent example of "making excuses"
alabama24 said:There is no excuse for what has happened.
I have not said my opinion is more valid I am saying MVP's are saying my opinion is not valid. All I want is to express my personal experience of this company. So do not bother and try and make this about me when the whole thing is about the honesting and integrity of what this business chooses to allow to be communicated to its customers.
The example you quote above is because you personally felt the situation was wrong. When MVP's personally don't feel the situation is wrong, they totally disrespect their fellow customers experience and try their hardest to invalidate that experience as you are doing so now. They feel it necessary to tell fellow customers they are wrong for having that experience of this business and thus placing themselves superiors above their fellow customers, superiors who are the only ones that really know what they are talking about. A customer personal experience of this business does not need to be discoursed by MVP's before it becomes a valid experience. Next FL will be saying our personal experiences of this company will need to be voted on over at uservoice. If I wanted a discourse my personal exerienciences I wouldI would go to http://christiandiscourse.com/ . All I want to do is provide feedback of my experiences of this company in the forums they company has provided for me to do so.
Whether you like it or not this is not a hobby, it's a global business. And MVP's can try as much as they like to try as much as you want to distract from my personal experience of this company, to try and say it is not valid but you will not change that experience for me by trying to turn it into a discourse. If you want to change my experience of this company do something pro-active and use your position as an MVP to get this feedback communicated up the chain. This company is knowingly misleading its customers in some of the informaiton it chooses to present to them. And if the company's leadership truly valued their customers they would embrace feedback and act upon it to clear up the misleading information rather than continuing hide behind a wall of silence. They can change that experience for me.
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Disciple of Christ (doc) said:
I am being real
Next to "political correctness" being charged when courtesy is invoked, this is my least favorite phrase given it common usages (think politcal). I have no objection to your raising issues with regards to the marketing of Vyrso and I have little patience with Logos marketing so I do my best to shield myself from much of it, but I do object to your objection to alabama24 trying to explain the situation. An explanation is neither an excuse nor a defense ... it is simply and explanation to which there are few legitimate responses (a) I don't understand the explanation (b) ah, I understand (c) ah, I understand but I still don't like it.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Disciple of Christ (doc) said:
total lack of respect to fellow customers rights to raise concerns about this company
you mentioned more specifically to alabama that you feel invalidated by MVPs. I want to clarify that my response was not to invalidate your concern. In fact, I agreed with you, in essence--that this is a problem, that your experience was not helpful, nor is their approach a good business practice (in my estimation). If you note in my restatement, I tried to specify and name the problem. I was attempting to state the factual problem (your experience) without the (in my mind) needless derogatory editorializing. I thought it might be more effective.
Disciple of Christ (doc) said:It is not a stretch at all Friedrich to say they lack honesty and integrity.
What I always try to pay attention to, and avoid, is making a judgment on character and motive (which I can't know) and stating that as a global problem: "FL is dishonest." (my words). There are both Biblical and relational/communicative reasons not to make that global judgment. And I have made plenty of them myself. Including about FL. If I had a bad experience with a CS rep, or I thought their website was clunky and stupid (it was way back when, lol!) I found myself being angry toward the lot of them. Anyway, they are human and have their issues, but they have proven themselves to often "make up" for an error and to engage--from frontliners to Bob himself, as you well know.
It may be true that some of the individuals or company procedures either look like or are actually lacking integrity, or follow through, etc. But even then, pointing out that (which is a judgment, not necessarily the truth) in a localized sense: "this seems to lack integrity" is MUCH different that you "have no integrity" or "you deliberately are dishonest." (all my words, for illustrative purposes)
DoC, you need to let your poor experiences be known, directly to Logos or on the forums. those can be helpful. But I ask that you consider revising your interpretation that I set out to invalidate your experience. I simply questioned your globalizing judgment about them and offered a different way to address the problem.
Anyway, peace out. I wish you well and think you raised a good point.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Disciple of Christ (doc) said:
Instead of running around trying to think up the next big idea to make more money the leadership of this company needs to slow down and sort out its operational issues.
I agree. [Y] They need to get back to their core values - or to be more accurate, core business.
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Friedrich thank you for further clarifying where you were coming from and in they way you have responded to me. However I strongly believe this company does have a problem with communicating honestly and with integrity and I am not referring to just this situation highlighted in this thread but others situations as well. There are so intent on 'selling' the product that they do in fact stretch the truth. I have let them know plenty of times of my concerns but they are not interested in changing there ways. Somewhere along the line something changed in this company, in its leadership, they are not what they once were, and I don't like what I see coming out Bellingham, I am not comfortable with it at all. But I have invested too much in this product to be able to walk away.
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MJ. Smith said:Disciple of Christ (doc) said:
I am being real
Next to "political correctness" being charged when courtesy is invoked, this is my least favorite phrase given it common usages (think politcal).
alabama24 said:I am a Mac user. I expect excellence. I am also a realist.
MJ I do not follow American politics closely so I have no idea what you are talking about in regards to your political references. But if you followed the conversation you would have seen it was Alabama that introduced the concept of being real into the thread - so do not chastise me for reflecting back to Alabama the language he used.
Alabama was not explaining anything at all he was telling me I had no right to feel the way I do about my personal experience with the customer services of this business. He was making excuses for them plain and simple. I have been a customer of this business a very long time. I do not need the Vryso model explained to me. I have heard these excuses directly from FL, this is a known problem, they have had plenty of time to address it, they handle it correctly on both the Logos and Verbum sites so there is no excuse for them to continuing to do nothing about it on the Vyrso site.
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Disciple of Christ (doc) said:
concept of being real into the threa
In the US there is a big difference between "being realistic" and "being real" ... divided by a common language so I'm out of the thread
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Disciple of Christ (doc) said:
Alabama was not explaining anything at all he was telling me I had no right to feel the way I do about my personal experience with the customer services of this business.
Disciple of Christ (doc) said:I have not said my opinion is more valid
I'll leave it at this: Despite your protestations, the problem you really have is that others dare to share their opinion and experiences and you don't like it. You can share your thoughts, but when I share how I "feel" about Vyrso, it impinges upon your "right to feel" about the same. Got it.
It goes back to what I mentioned earlier. The forums are a place for public discourse. If you don't want to interact (politely) with others, don't post in the forums.
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alabama24 said:Disciple of Christ (doc) said:
Alabama was not explaining anything at all he was telling me I had no right to feel the way I do about my personal experience with the customer services of this business.
Disciple of Christ (doc) said:I have not said my opinion is more valid
I'll leave it at this: Despite your protestations, the problem you really have is that others dare to share their opinion and experiences and you don't like it. You can share your thoughts, but when I share how I "feel" about Vyrso, it impinges upon your "right to feel" about the same. Got it.
It goes back to what I mentioned earlier. The forums are a place for public discourse. If you don't want to interact (politely) with others, don't post in the forums.
Alabama you choose to leave me with suggestion I should not post in these forums. I am totally perplexed where your hostility is coming from. All I ever wanted to do is share my experience as feedback to FL on how they are letting their customers and down and more significantly their image. I will leave you on this topic by saying I look forward to seeing your continued posts in these forums. I will be praying for you and hope you can find it in your heart to do the same for me.
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Disciple of Christ (doc) said:
I am totally perplexed where your hostility is coming from.
There is no hostility on my side, I can assure you.
Disciple of Christ (doc) said:Alabama you choose to leave me with suggestion I should not post in these forums.
That isn't true. I wrote:
alabama24 said:The forums are a place for public discourse. If you don't want to interact (politely) with others, don't post in the forums.
Disciple of Christ (doc) said:I look forward to seeing your continued posts in these forums
But see, that's where the problem has laid all along.
It is perfectly fine for you to post in the forums, but please do so respectfully (as you have done here). Remember, however, that others will have differing opinions on subjects.
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Alabama you continue to make no sense, I have no issue and have never had issue with any having different views. I have only had issue with those who tell me I am not allowed to express my view and tell me I am wrong for holding this company to honesty a accuracy in the information they present to customers. Whether you agree or not you are being hostile by continuing to try and make this about me because you don't like that I have a different view to you about this company. Additionally you add to that hostility by making out I need your permission to post on these forums. This is thread is about the fact FL is knowinhly presenting misleading information to its customers. The more you continue to sttack the messenger the more you continue to make it look bad for them and for yourself who keeps saying everyone is free to an opinion but attack me everytime I give an opinion.
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Disciple of Christ (doc) said:
The more you continue to sttack the messenger the more you continue to make it look bad for them and for yourself who keeps saying everyone is free to an opinion but attack me everytime I give an opinion.
I haven't ever attacked you. I have only suggested that you need to be respectful of others, including myself. At times, you have not done so:
Disciple of Christ (doc) said:I am sick of forum MVP's who make excuses for them and in doing so show a total lack of respect to fellow customers rights to raise concerns about this company
Again, when I disagree, you take it as a personal attack. It is not. That has been my point all along.
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Gents, I have my own opinions about Faithlife and how they run Vyrso. But that is not half as important as sowing peace among the brethren.
Can we all agree to peaceably coexist? With prayers for the both of you. Matthew.
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Alabama you are still continuing to attack me with this latest post no matter how much you want to deny that point. The comment you quote below is not showing no respect for you or anyone else, it is an expression of my frustration of many years on these forums of having MVP's telling me I have no right to express a negative experience of this company. It is a comment born out of disrespect shown to me by MVP's. But once again you don't like my honesty and continue to do the very thing you want to accuse me of - you are the one not being accepting of a range of opinions. Your opinion is that is is ok for MVP's to tell other customers they are wrong for expressing a negative experience of this company and in this case me expressing my negative experience of MVP's on these forums. My opinion is that it is not ok and because I don't share your opinion you attack my personal character call me disrespectful. So go ahead wind up and take another shot at me because I dare to disagree with you, but you are not going to change any of the negative experiences I have expressed. All that you are doing is reinforcing my below expressed experience of MVP's when I dare to be honest.
alabama24 said:Disciple of Christ (doc) said:The more you continue to sttack the messenger the more you continue to make it look bad for them and for yourself who keeps saying everyone is free to an opinion but attack me everytime I give an opinion.
I haven't ever attacked you. I have only suggested that you need to be respectful of others, including myself. At times, you have not done so:
Disciple of Christ (doc) said:I am sick of forum MVP's who make excuses for them and in doing so show a total lack of respect to fellow customers rights to raise concerns about this company
Again, when I disagree, you take it as a personal attack. It is not. That has been my point all along.
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Sorry, I know that I said I was out of this thread but I have seen this charge many times:
Disciple of Christ (doc) said:MVP's to tell other customers they are wrong for expressing a negative experience of this company
Can you give me a concrete, explicit example that is outside this tread?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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P A said:
The Bible Speaks Today (Series) THE MESSAGE OF WORSHIP in VYRSO
Thanks for the heads-up on this one.
Such a lovely day, isn't in?
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MJ I am surprised you even need to ask that question. You have been one of the worst offenders over the years. I have stopped posting I these threads because of you at different times. I am I longer allowing anyone make me feel that way. I will grant that you have tried hard to hold your tongue into this thread. I think my feelings about this have been made pretty clear so let's not drag out this aspect of the thread any further when such a dissection is only going to cause further division.
What this thread had borne out is that we are all very passionate people with very strong opinions. Some think Vyrso is a low profit hobby and it doesn't matter whether the information presented to the customers is accurate or not because it's just a hobby. Others see Vyrso as a brand this part of a global business for which honesty and integrity should be guiding values for the brand and if something and budgets should not be an excuse for throwing out those value. If an activity can not be undertaken with honesty and integrity by presenting true and accurate information within the budgetary constraints of the business model then that activity should not undertaken. In this case if the can not afford to present true and accurate information on their website about books which publishers have placed sales restrictions then they should not be in the business of selling these books. They do it perfectly well enough on the Logos and Verbum sites, why can they not do it on the Vyrso site. For a business called Faithlife I don't see how expecting honesty in their communications to customers is too much to ask. And there will be lots of other varied passionate opinions between and outside of these two views.
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Disciple of Christ (doc) said:
MJ I am surprised you even need to ask that question. You have been one of the worst offenders over the years. I have stopped posting I these threads because of you at different times.
Thanks for answering. I now know precisely where the communication between you and alabama24 broke down rather than making an assumption. I also know how to deal with you in the future.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Disciple of Christ (doc) said:
And there will be lots of other varied passionate opinions between and outside of these two views.
Some might say just don't buy from Vyrso until they meet your standards. Personally. I am willing to put up with the rough edges.
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For me this goes much deeper than that simple answer Matthew, I can not understand how they can knowingly make misrepresentactions to customers and think that is an acceptable business practice. And nothing anyone says will change that, and it is not an issue I can remain silent on when it crops up. No matter what way anyone want to dress it up a lie is a lie. And presenting a lie to your customers for me is a most detestable business practice.
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Disciple of Christ (doc) said:
And nothing anyone says will change that, and it is not an issue I can remain silent on when it crops up.
Have you called Bob Pritchett on it? I am not sure what anyone else can do about it. I certainly have no control over the situation.
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Matthew C Jones said:Disciple of Christ (doc) said:
And nothing anyone says will change that, and it is not an issue I can remain silent on when it crops up.
Have you called Bob Pritchett on it? I am not sure what anyone else can do about it. I certainly have no control over the situation.
I have discussed other concerns with Bob Pritchett in the past and did not find him all that interested.
Thank you Matthew for the way you have engaged with me on this topic.
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Disciple of Christ (doc) said:
I have discussed other concerns with Bob Pritchett in the past and did not find him all that interested
I am sorry to hear that.
Your opinions and experiences are just as valid as the next person's. Please feel free to continue to post your concerns.
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