Logos 4 via a Web Browser: Yet Another Beta
Comments
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Bob Pritchett said:
UPDATE: I got confused about which was the private forum. This isn't. :-)
It there still a private beta going on?
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Interesting question.Terry Poperszky said:It there still a private beta going on?
If I tell you no it could mean that it's a private beta and you're not allowed to know about it.
If I tell you no it could mean that there is no private beta and Bob just thought he posted this there to start with.
No. [;)]
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
Thomas Black said:
If I tell you no it could mean that it's a private beta and you're not allowed to know about it.
Incorrect, if you tell me nothing, it means I am not allowed to know about it. If you tell me no and there is, you are lying. If you agreed to lie for Logos, I will have to rethink my assessment of both Logos and you.
Thomas Black said:If I tell you no it could mean that there is no private beta and Bob just thought he posted this there to start with.
Thomas, we need to get you some more coffee. If there is no private beta, how could Bob think he was posting there? I would like to sit in on some of your teaching, given logic like this, it would be entertaining to say the least. [:P]
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Terry Poperszky said:Thomas Black said:
If I tell you no it could mean that there is no private beta and Bob just thought he posted this there to start with.
Thomas, we need to get you some more coffee. If there is no private beta, how could Bob think he was posting there? I would like to sit in on some of your teaching, given logic like this, it would be entertaining to say the least.
Ah, but there is a forum appropriately titled Private beta. And that changes everything.... [;)] (And I'm not lying) [:p]
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
I like this. Being an attorney, it reminds me very much of Lexis-Nexis or Westlaw, both of which I rely on very heavily.
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Thomas Black said:
Ah, but there is a forum appropriately titled Private beta. And that changes everything....
(And I'm not lying) Which means that there is still a level of communication from Bob to those people who have access to that forum that is denied to those people not allowed access to the "Private Beta" forum as opposed to the people in the PC Beta forum. Therefore this means there is still a private Beta going on, in spirit, if not in letter. [:O]
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Terry Poperszky said:
Which means that there is still a level of communication from Bob to those people who have access to that forum that is denied to those people not allowed access to the "Private Beta" forum as opposed to the people in the PC Beta forum. Therefore this means there is still a private Beta going on, in spirit, if not in letter.
I don't think there's been a post there for quite some time sorry, no private beta (and no lie). [unless of course I'm not invited! [:S]]
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
Thomas Black said:
I don't think there's been a post there for quite some time sorry, no private beta (and no lie). [unless of course I'm not invited!
]Didn't think so, but thanks for confirming. I was just having fun, you presented me with a logic puzzle, and I was just following it to the logical conclusion. (Thank you for the exercise) [:D] But Bob's words did leave open the possibility. [:O]
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Terry,
To cut through the legalese and illogic, there is a private beta forum that was used during the L4 beta. It is still there but only accessible by those who were part of the original L4 beta and were given permission - sometimes people who were in the beta go back there to cut and paste a response to questions that come up now and again in the open forums or just for nostalgic reasons or maybe to boost their ego that they can go back there -- oops I'm slipping into illogic. There has not been a post in it since Jan 4. So, it is like a tree falling in the forest with no one there - it makes a sound or a non-sound depending on your epistemology.
Thomas may have his access cut off it he continues to avoid coffee.
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Bob & Team Logos
Thanks for continuing to add value to L4. The degree of accessibility is incredible - web browsers, iPhone/Touch, web-enabled cell phones, desktop and laptop computers - online/offline. All this makes L4 a great deal even without the addition features and resources.
I find both the web and mobile web apps work well - on Chrome and my iPod touch chrome.
Thanks for your continued commitment to expanding the resources available on- and off-line. I've seen the number of resources available in my iPod touch and now web browser increase from about 100 to over 600 in less than 2 months. That's been a lot of work, I'm sure. And that hasn't cost me anything more. I hope you are getting a lot of new customers and more income from the rest of us as I know you'll continue to re-invest it in the company to make the Logos better and better. I'm pleased to see you have needs for a lot more programmers on all kinds of platforms and other personnel -- this bodes so well for the future.
I can't imagine what we'll have in a couple of years!!!
Blessings,
Chris
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Thanks Logos guys/gals/men/women/ladies/gents/dudes/dudettes!
I love where this is going. I opened up Ancient Future Evangelism right away (that is awesome--the webber books I want to read, and since I don't have iPhone, i didn't really know what I could read. that'd be a resource I would like mobile/itouch type access.
No-frills (navigation not easy, no side window contents/index whatever you call it, etc), but it is THERE!
Question: I did a search, it lists my books, but clicking on the link pops up a window (i am using FF 3.5.7) and I need to use a program to open it. What do I use/do?
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Chris Elford said:
To cut through the legalese and illogic, there is a private beta forum that was used during the L4 beta
Chris, this is what I originally guessed. Given the traffic around the public beta, it would be hard but not impossible to maintain a separate private one. Bob's comment indicated that information was still being passed through that channel and rather than bother him directly, I thought I would ask. Much to my delight, Thomas tempted me with a logic puzzle, which I find hard to resist. But thank you for your clarification.
Chris Elford said:Thomas may have his access cut off it he continues to avoid coffee.
Given his current avatar, there is little danger of this happening. [:D]
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Dan DeVilder said:
No-frills (navigation not easy, no side window contents/index whatever you call it, etc), but it is THERE!
It's coming. The project is still young & you'll probably see a lot of changes & additions as it evolves.
Dan DeVilder said:Question: I did a search, it lists my books, but clicking on the link pops up a window (i am using FF 3.5.7) and I need to use a program to open it. What do I use/do?
This is a bug. I just published an update that addresses the issue, so you should not see any more download prompts. Please let me know if you have this problem again.
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The site has been updated with an initial implementation of the Passage Guide and Bible Word Study. There are still a few minor issues with some of the sections that will be addressed over the next day or 2. This release also fixes several bugs, and includes the #1 requested feature: a resource count in the library list
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Bryan, the BWS is really sweet! One question, does it work for those people without L4?
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Terry Poperszky said:
oes it work for those people without L4?
Sort of. Without a Logos 4 base package you are limited to our free resources. The BWS is generated largely from your preferred reverse interlinear resource. If you don't have L4, then there are only a couple RI resources available, and it will use those instead of your preferred RI.
Short answer: yes, but results may not match your preferences.
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Bryan Smith said:
Short answer: yes, but results may not match your preferences.
I actually wasn't thinking of myself as much as I was using it for those people who don't understand how software can enhance their studies.
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Logos, this is a great idea that could be very useful, and adds even more value for those who put the $ into L4. Keep up the good work.
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Hi Bryan,
Is a resource count coming? Before library.logos.com was only for "officially" for mobile browsers, I had used on my PC to check how many of my resources were appearing as available on my ipod touch (last count was 554 out of 1610), but now there's no way to check. If a count could be added to the current online pc version, that'd be great.
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Mike Aubrey said:
Is a resource count coming?
There is a resource count in right side of the library list filter box, same as Logos 4. The count shows the number of resources that match your current filter, or all resources if you have not typed in a filter.
Also, if you would like to go back to the mobile version of the site, you can visit http://library.logos.com?beta=false to unset the cookie & switch back to the mobile view. http://library.logos.com?beta=true will turn it back on any time.
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Bryan Smith said:
There is a resource count in right side of the library list filter box, same as Logos 4. The count shows the number of resources that match your current filter, or all resources if you have not typed in a filter.
Thanks.
It hadn't been appearing until this afternoon.
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Guides were more than I expected--I can't wait for reading plans to become accessible!
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Mike Aubrey said:
It hadn't been appearing until this afternoon.
Yep, the change was included in yesterday morning's update.
Ward Walker said:Guides were more than I expected--I can't wait for reading plans to become accessible!
Glad you like them! Hopefully we'll be able to add more sections over time as well.
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Bryan Smith said:
Glad you like them! Hopefully we'll be able to add more sections over time as well.
Are you planning to sync panes and set layouts like a desktop environment? I really like where this is going but understand the challenges that some features present in the web world. What you have done so far is pretty cool.
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Robert Mullen said:
Are you planning to sync panes and set layouts like a desktop environment?
Possibly in the future. There are some pretty significant challenges in cloning the L4 layout environment on the web. For now it will just be the simple 4-pane layout we're using now. Syncing panes & better layout management would definitely be cool, but we're prioritizing some of the more core features for now.
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I just pushed another update. This one unsets the beta cookie, so you'll have to reset it with the beta=true flag again, otherwise you'll just see the mobile version.
http://library.logos.com/?beta=true
This update adds the text comparison panel and addresses several minor issues with guide sections.
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Bryan Smith said:
This update adds the text comparison panel and addresses several minor issues with guide sections.
Very nice.
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Wow again! Thanks for your work![Y]
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great to see the text comparison!
4 panes are enough for now. Nice to have this option. Sry if I missed it, but notes/syncing--will that feature be in the works?
Curious: what is the drive behind this innovation? Just that you can? Is it an outgrowth of mobile device accessibility work? Worried we won't have our laptop but need to work on Logos? Making it easier for missionaries who can't download a lot, but who can read via the internet?
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Wow, very nice work!
It also works well with the Chinese Bible. Thanks!!
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Dan DeVilder said:
notes/syncing--will that feature be in the works?
Some of the basic settings like resource positions are already syncing from L4 to the web. Syncing in the other direction is implemented, but disabled until some of the code stabilizes a bit. Notes: we'll probably add it eventually, but there are more important things we have to get done first.
Dan DeVilder said:Curious: what is the drive behind this innovation?
Bob can probably answer this a lot better than I, but I think there are a few big use cases. L4 is fairly resource intensive, and doesn't run well on older machines and low power machines like netbooks. This will provide a light weight solution for accessing your library. It's also a quick & easy way to access your library while you're not home.
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Considering the coming Apple and HP tablets, this is a great direction to go and I am very thankful as I plan to get one of them.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
thanks for all your input, Bryan.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Wow. Get tied down with annual meetings and Christmas stuff and look what slips you by! This is really great stuff. I need to play around with it a bit but for some quick Bible tasks I could see myself going to the website before launching L4. I'm running the latest beta and things seem to be a bit slow.
Absolutely great stuff. And no monthly fee!
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I notice that the page index information is included in the resource because it switches between Bible reference and page number on commentaries.
Are their plans to make the page numbers more prominent for those who need to cite for papers?
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Joe Miller said:
Is access to books via to the web tool the same as for the iPhone--a purchase of an L4 base package?
It sure seems so as resources available match the normal library.logos.com and iPhone app. Currently a L3 license isn't sufficient to open your library up to access in these manners. Currently at least, L4 is needed
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
Bob, do you want us beta testing this? i.e. reporting bugs?
If so, do you want us posting them somewhere in particular on the forum, emailing them in, private beta forum? Let us know. I'd love to chip in as I can to help make this as useful and stable as quickly as possible. I love it. Thanks
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
Russ Quinn said:
Are their plans to make the page numbers more prominent for those who need to cite for papers?
In general, the plan is for things to work the same way Logos 4 does, though it obviously has a long ways to go.
Joe Miller said:Is access to books via to the web tool the same as for the iPhone--a purchase of an L4 base package?
Yep.Jacob Hantla said:do you want us beta testing this? i.e. reporting bugs?
Bug reports are always welcome. I think at this point the project is so young that we're mostly looking for feedback. Is this something you'll use? It's unlikely that it will ever be as full-featured as Logos 4, so we need to figure out what features will be most useful in this setting-- where to focus our efforts. Some features, like the window management, we've only partially implemented- is it enough? "Alpha testing" might be more appropriate
We should probably open a new forum for discussing web content, but for now it's fine to post bugs and feedback in this thread.
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Bryan Smith said:Russ Quinn said:
Are their plans to make the page numbers more prominent for those who need to cite for papers?
In general, the plan is for things to work the same way Logos 4 does, though it obviously has a long ways to go.
Jacob Hantla said:do you want us beta testing this? i.e. reporting bugs?
It's unlikely that it will ever be as full-featured as Logos 4, so we need to figure out what features will be most useful in this setting-- where to focus our efforts.
In some ways, this is so unexpected and yet so promising that it is hard to know what is realistic to suggest.
Are their features that are off the table due to technical issues?
For instance, is their a possibility for implementing . . . Morphological search? Syntactical search? Reading helps for original languages? Reverse Interlinears? Highlighting? Notes?
Knowing a bit more about what is possible and even planned would probably help focus the feedback in more constructive ways.
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Bryan, my top three priorities are below, implementing them to the fullest degree possible.
Searching
Notes
Highlighting
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So how do I set the default Bible translation? It differs from my L4 selection and is coming up with a foreign language which is interesting but not quite what I want.
BTW Firefox 3.6 has been released.
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TomReynolds said:
So how do I set the default Bible translation?
If you're signed in to the same account you use with Logos 4 then it will try to use Bibles in the order you have ranked them until it finds one that's licensed for online use.
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Russ Quinn said:
Are their features that are off the table due to technical issues?
Off the top of my head I can't think of anything. There are some features that I think we're unlikely to implement, but it would be based on the amount of effort it would take versus the popularity of the feature. Either way we'd like to know what you want.
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Bryan Smith said:TomReynolds said:
So how do I set the default Bible translation?
If you're signed in to the same account you use with Logos 4 then it will try to use Bibles in the order you have ranked them until it finds one that's licensed for online use.
I guess that makes sense as the TNIV is my preferred Bible. I have promoted the ESV and NRSV so that has taken care of things. Thanks!
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Wow, thanks a lot!!! I can now access L4 on my office computer! Thanks for making things available! [:D]
I have a couple little requests though. At the moment the Hebrew text of BHS is very cramped with overlapping lines on both IE and Firefox it is very hard to read (there're many squares for Hebrew in Chrome so I'm not using Chrome but that's alright). I wonder if we could have less crowding of the lines for the Hebrew text? Also if the panels could be synced to each other as we scroll it would be awesome!
I'd like to thank you all again, your work is a blessing to many people! [:)]
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Amy Leung said:
At the moment the Hebrew text of BHS is very cramped with overlapping lines on both IE and Firefox it is very hard to read
Thanks for pointing that out, Amy. I should be able to address it in the next update.
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Bryan Smith said:
Bug reports are always welcome. I think at this point the project is so young that we're mostly looking for feedback. Is this something you'll use? It's unlikely that it will ever be as full-featured as Logos 4, so we need to figure out what features will be most useful in this setting-- where to focus our efforts. Some features, like the window management, we've only partially implemented- is it enough? "Alpha testing" might be more appropriate
For me the #1 missing feature is "contents", either a quick link to jump to the front/back of a book (where it has the contents built in) or a dropdown/new pane. For example, I'm reading Grudem's Systematic Theology, and I would love to be able to quickly jump to a topic, ie "Angels", via a contents drop down or something (maybe like the library drop-down?), or at least quickly navigate the book.
I'm personally envisioning using the mobile version (library.logos.com) to look up something if I don't have Logos4 installed (ie someone else's computer, my phone, a netbook or slower device). I know others probably want it to do more, like the desktop version.
Also, from my use of library.logos.com on my WinMobile phone, it appears that the sync is one-way - ie if I read a book on my desktop Logos4, my position is saved, but if I read it further on my phone, the position is not synced back to the desktop version? That's fine, I'm just curious. If there were a contents pane on library.logos.com, this would be a non-issue for me.
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Will we eventually be able to cache books for offline use, kind of like airplane mode in the iphone/ipad version? I started thinking about that when I read that Google will likely do that kind of thing with their online bookstore. If something like that is in the works, it seems to me that it would make developing for the iPhone/iPad, Android and Blackberry devices unnecessary. That would be a win/win situation -- for Logos and its customers.
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