Is software ownership to be a thing of the past in a few years?

Undecided on the question of joining Logos Now or buying the Full Feature Set with Logos 7 Gold, I wonder if holding onto owning the Logos full feature set is merely avoiding the way things are headed. Bob has said that he anticipates continuing the ownership model into the foreseeable future, but it looks as though the software industry is moving towards a subscription model.

Any thoughts? Has anyone else discarded the ownership model because of this perception?

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Lynden O. Williams

If you look at Adobe's website, you cannot purchase their software. It is either rent or find something else. I am not a fan of this model, but it is better for the company who does not want to support (Tech support) 5 year old software.

The advantage of SaaS is you are always up to date.

TCBlack

Any thoughts? Has anyone else discarded the ownership model because of this perception?

I agree with Lynden.

As he said SaaS has benefits of constantly updating, etc. But that said, I'm still a fan of OWNING what I use. Right now I'm splitting the difference. I'm doing some personal fund scraping to try to jump to L7Platinum, but I'm also using NOW rather than purchasing the feature set.

Jan Krohn

I'm holding on to ownership BECAUSE of that perception.

Maybe Logos 7 is the last version that we can buy and own. I wouldn't want to miss that opportunity. Maybe Logos 8 ownership option are gonna be massively unattractive.

Consider Microsoft Office...

Version 2010: you could buy and own the Pro Plus version with student discount for about $100, and install that on 2 computers.
Version 2013: students only got discount on the subscription model, so I had to retract to the developer version for $200, and could still install that on 2 computers.
Version 2016: no student discount, no developer version, and any version you own can only go on a single computer. The cheapest version to own is Home&Student - crippleware for $100 per computer.

Therefore, Microsoft can now support me on Office 2013 for the next 10 years, up to the last day when support officially ends. (Unless the Lord returns before that date.)

Adobe has already been named. There's a good avternative for graphics software: Corel. Those guys haven't even introduced a subscription model yet. Maybe that's the case because they're Canadian... [:#]

The only kind of software that really justifies a subscription model in my opinion is anti virus software, because it constantly needs updates, updates, updates. If you're not on the latest and greatest for a single day, it can have very ugly consequences.

(I hope my boss is not gonna read this, because we only do subscriptions. Anyway, this is my personal opinion, and not my professional opinion. [:D])

Bill Moore

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841879#Comment_841879

Any thoughts? Has anyone else discarded the ownership model because of this perception?

I agree with Lynden.

As he said SaaS has benefits of constantly updating, etc. But that said, I'm still a fan of OWNING what I use. Right now I'm splitting the difference. I'm doing some personal fund scraping to try to jump to L7Platinum, but I'm also using NOW rather than purchasing the feature set.

That's what I'm trying to decide on, Thomas, whether to buy the full feature set or join Logos Now. If you don't mind, please share why you choose Logos Now instead of owning the full feature set. I'm on the fence.

And, please, anyone else feel free to chime in with your opinion.

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841889#Comment_841889

Thomas, whether to buy the full feature set or join Logos Now. If you don't mind, please share why you choose Logos Now instead of owning the full feature set. I'm on the fence.

I no longer have the finances to live on the bleeding edge of technology, but I still want the newest and greatest. Logos Now is a reasonable price point to get me that. I already had NOW before L7 came out and was thrilled to see how Faithlife paired now membership with the feature set.

Additionally, as an MVP here I really need to be able to test and play with the new features as they come down the pike so I can answer questions.*

*Never mind the fact that other commitments have kept me from being as active in the forums as I would like.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841889#Comment_841889

If you presume Faithlife's future, your financial future, and like more stuff, then LN makes sense.

I don't. I do want the the interlinears. The rest is progressively more time consuming, adds little, but no doubt many like.

So, I buy. I also bought 3 more volumes while shopping. I buy books that I use.

Plus, Bible wise, I can't fathom many of the datasets, unless academic use. The Bible's just not all that complicated.

Bill Moore

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841883#Comment_841883

I'm holding on to ownership BECAUSE of that perception.

Maybe Logos 7 is the last version that we can buy and own. I wouldn't want to miss that opportunity. Maybe Logos 8 ownership option are gonna be massively unattractive.

Consider Microsoft Office...

Version 2010: you could buy and own the Pro Plus version with student discount for about $100, and install that on 2 computers.
Version 2013: students only got discount on the subscription model, so I had to retract to the developer version for $200, and could still install that on 2 computers.
Version 2016: no student discount, no developer version, and any version you own can only go on a single computer. The cheapest version to own is Home&Student - crippleware for $100 per computer.

Therefore, Microsoft can now support me on Office 2013 for the next 10 years, up to the last day when support officially ends. (Unless the Lord returns before that date.)

Adobe has already been named. There's a good avternative for graphics software: Corel. Those guys haven't even introduced a subscription model yet. Maybe that's the case because they're Canadian...

The only kind of software that really justifies a subscription model in my opinion is anti virus software, because it constantly needs updates, updates, updates. If you're not on the latest and greatest for a single day, it can have very ugly consequences.

(I hope my boss is not gonna read this, because we only do subscriptions. Anyway, this is my personal opinion, and not my professional opinion. )

That's my gut reaction, Jan, but I waver with Logos.

Bill Moore

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841900#Comment_841900

If you presume Faithlife's future, your financial future, and like more stuff, then LN makes sense.

I don't. I do want the the interlinears. The rest is progressively more time consuming, adds little, but no doubt many like.

So, I buy. I also bought 3 more volumes while shopping. I buy books that I use.

Plus, Bible wise, I can't fathom many of the datasets, unless academic use. The Bible's just not all that complicated.

Not presuming those things keeps me leaning towards owning the feature sets, Denise, and I don't disagree your perspective on the other points, especially buying what you use. The primary reason for my choosing the L7 Gold is that three resources -- Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary, New Daily Bible Study, and The Bible Speaks Today commentaries are included for much less than I could buy them at good sale prices.

Dural Keys

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841905#Comment_841905

This was a very interesting post (the future of Logos: subscription, software, or an integration of the two). I am a fairly new user...it makes me nervous- i literally have thousands of dollars, like many others invested in the Logos Bible software. I guess these are questions we need to direct to the powers-that-be!

Bill Moore

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841937#Comment_841937

This was a very interesting post (the future of Logos: subscription, software, or an integration of the two). I am a fairly new user...it makes me nervous- i literally have thousands of dollars, like many others invested in the Logos Bible software. I guess these are questions we need to direct to the powers-that-be!

If I recall correctly, the official word is that a two-pronged model is to continue for the foreseeable future: personal ownership of books and either owning or subscribing to the feature sets. I think that Logos Now, with personal ownership of books and subscribing for the feature sets, will win out, but that's just conjecture on my part.

Jan Krohn

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841901#Comment_841901

You could try to extrapolate the cost over the next 10 or 20 years, or for whatever upcoming time frame you intend to be using Logos.

What would it cost to pay annual LN membership vs. upgrading to new Full-Feature-Set purchases every 2 years.

Clearly, the maths is in favour of ownership - same as renting vs. owning a house, or leasing vs. owning a car. The longer you want to use the software/house/car, the clearer the financial advantage of ownership.

The subscription model has other non-financial benefits though: mainly the flexibility that comes with "renting" the service, and to always stay on the lastest features.

The flexibility is not relevant to me, since I already invested $2000 in Logos. For a new user on the other hand, LN/LC is a great option to try Logos for a year with minimal investment.

I've made my own decision against SaaS models (including Logos) asking myself, do I need or do I want new features, and how desparately. I guess everyone wants new features. So do I - but not as desparately. For sure, some users need new features. Those are better off with LN then. Everyone else could balance how desparately they want new features vs. the cost involved over the remainder of the period they intend to use Logos. I'm convinced not everyone takes such a structured approach though. [:P]

Matt Hamrick

I covered this in another thread. I have been a Logos Now member the entire time it's existed which means I got all the features as they were released and could use them in Logos 6. Now all those features are in Logos 7 but I still opted to buy the Full Feature set to own even though I was already renting them. Now I will rent features until Logos 8 and the same thing will happen. I will buy the full feature set again for Logos 8 and still continue to be a member of Logos Now. I plan on leaving my library to someone one day and when that day comes my Logos Now membership will end, but I want them to have the most current updated features they will own at the time of my death. Hopefully that is a long way off and I will see Logos 30 by then, but the principle is the same. One can rent the features with Logos Now as they are released. One can wait and buy the features when the new software releases. I will do both because I love having the features now instead of later and later I will love owning them instead of renting them. The perception you mention has no bearing on me because I am doing both.

Bill Moore

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841946#Comment_841946

You could try to extrapolate the cost over the next 10 or 20 years, or for whatever upcoming time frame you intend to be using Logos.

What would it cost to pay annual LN membership vs. upgrading to new Full-Feature-Set purchases every 2 years.

Clearly, the maths is in favour of ownership - same as renting vs. owning a house, or leasing vs. owning a car. The longer you want to use the software/house/car, the clearer the financial advantage of ownership.

The subscription model has other non-financial benefits though: mainly the flexibility that comes with "renting" the service, and to always stay on the lastest features.

The flexibility is not relevant to me, since I already invested $2000 in Logos. For a new user on the other hand, LN/LC is a great option to try Logos for a year with minimal investment.

I've made my own decision against SaaS models (including Logos) asking myself, do I need or do I want new features, and how desparately. I guess everyone wants new features. So do I - but not as desparately. For sure, some users need new features. Those are better off with LN then. Everyone else could balance how desparately they want new features vs. the cost involved over the remainder of the period they intend to use Logos. I'm convinced not everyone takes such a structured approach though.

You raise good points, Jan. One thing is fairly certain, LN is very attractive for a new user. I've been with Logos since L3.

JT (alabama24)

Any thoughts? Has anyone else discarded the ownership model because of this perception?

My 2¢ -

To me there is a difference between resources and features. I want to OWN my books, and know that I will still have access to them down the road. The features, on the other hand, I would be OK with losing. The #1 feature to me with Logos is the integrated search library. As long as FL continues to make that available to me without the LN subscription, I would be fine with utilizing LN and only buying books.

Bill Moore

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841954#Comment_841954

The #1 feature to me with Logos is the integrated search library. As long as FL continues to make that available to me without the LN subscription, I would be fine with utilizing LN and only buying books.

Thanks, 'Bama, but I'm not following your meaning in these two sentences. If the integrated search library is continued without the LN subscription, why would you continue utilizing LN?

Bill Moore

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841948#Comment_841948

I covered this in another thread. I have been a Logos Now member the entire time it's existed which means I got all the features as they were released and could use them in Logos 6. Now all those features are in Logos 7 but I still opted to buy the Full Feature set to own even though I was already renting them. Now I will rent features until Logos 8 and the same thing will happen. I will buy the full feature set again for Logos 8 and still continue to be a member of Logos Now. I plan on leaving my library to someone one day and when that day comes my Logos Now membership will end, but I want them to have the most current updated features they will own at the time of my death. Hopefully that is a long way off and I will see Logos 30 by then, but the principle is the same. One can rent the features with Logos Now as they are released. One can wait and buy the features when the new software releases. I will do both because I love having the features now instead of later and later I will love owning them instead of renting them. The perception you mention has no bearing on me because I am doing both.

I've also thought about doing LN and buying the FFS, Mark. Did you buy the FFS along with a base package or by itself? I was wondering if having LN procured an additional 10% off the FFS.

Matt Hamrick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841959#Comment_841959

I covered this in another thread. I have been a Logos Now member the entire time it's existed which means I got all the features as they were released and could use them in Logos 6. Now all those features are in Logos 7 but I still opted to buy the Full Feature set to own even though I was already renting them. Now I will rent features until Logos 8 and the same thing will happen. I will buy the full feature set again for Logos 8 and still continue to be a member of Logos Now. I plan on leaving my library to someone one day and when that day comes my Logos Now membership will end, but I want them to have the most current updated features they will own at the time of my death. Hopefully that is a long way off and I will see Logos 30 by then, but the principle is the same. One can rent the features with Logos Now as they are released. One can wait and buy the features when the new software releases. I will do both because I love having the features now instead of later and later I will love owning them instead of renting them. The perception you mention has no bearing on me because I am doing both.

I've also thought about doing LN and buying the FFS, Mark. Did you buy the FFS along with a base package or by itself? I was wondering if having LN procured an additional 10% off the FFS.

Name is Matt, not Mark. Yes, I got a Logos Now discount on the base package AND feature set and on top of that 25% off the Master Feature Collection I was piecing together during Logos 6.

Bill Moore

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841966#Comment_841966

I covered this in another thread. I have been a Logos Now member the entire time it's existed which means I got all the features as they were released and could use them in Logos 6. Now all those features are in Logos 7 but I still opted to buy the Full Feature set to own even though I was already renting them. Now I will rent features until Logos 8 and the same thing will happen. I will buy the full feature set again for Logos 8 and still continue to be a member of Logos Now. I plan on leaving my library to someone one day and when that day comes my Logos Now membership will end, but I want them to have the most current updated features they will own at the time of my death. Hopefully that is a long way off and I will see Logos 30 by then, but the principle is the same. One can rent the features with Logos Now as they are released. One can wait and buy the features when the new software releases. I will do both because I love having the features now instead of later and later I will love owning them instead of renting them. The perception you mention has no bearing on me because I am doing both.

I've also thought about doing LN and buying the FFS, Mark. Did you buy the FFS along with a base package or by itself? I was wondering if having LN procured an additional 10% off the FFS.

Name is Matt, not Mark. Yes, I got a Logos Now discount on the base package AND feature set and on top of that 25% off the Master Feature Collection I was piecing together during Logos 6.

Thanks, Mark, er, Matt. [:)] Sorry about that -- I've read a lot of posts from Mark, too.

Was the LN discount off the FFS 10%? Seems like I read that LN users always get a 25% off FFS and 10% off FFS introductory prices (10% on top of the introductory price discount).

Matt Hamrick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841968#Comment_841968

I am not sure what the percentage was but it was almost $500 for the base package and $65 for the FFS off for the Logons Now discount. This was on top of the normal discounts for the intro release. I am very grateful for the Logos Now discounts but that's not the main reason I am with Logos Now.

Jan Krohn

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841953#Comment_841953

You raise good points, Jan. One thing is fairly certain, LN is very attractive for a new user. I've been with Logos since L3.

Same here. Is started off with a Nelson eBible package for 10 pounds, and an NIV for an additional 10 pounds! Those were my "trial" products, which already totally convinced me back then, and caused me to delete all other Bible software to free up then-valuable space on my hdd :-)

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841958#Comment_841958

Thanks, 'Bama, but I'm not following your meaning in these two sentences. If the integrated search library is continued without the LN subscription, why would you continue utilizing LN?

"To own, or not to own. That, is the question!"

To rephrase my answer:

I want to own books.
I don't care about owning features.
As long as I am still able to utilize Logos as a "integrated search library," I am ok with buying books and "renting" the features. If there comes a time, for whatever reason, I can no longer justify a LN subscription, at least I can utilize the software how I need it most.

I like the LN membership program, and am glad they moved in that direction... as long as the software engine continues to be made free.

Jeffrey Visser

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841883#Comment_841883

Consider Microsoft Office...

Version 2010: you could buy and own the Pro Plus version with student discount for about $100, and install that on 2 computers.
Version 2013: students only got discount on the subscription model, so I had to retract to the developer version for $200, and could still install that on 2 computers.
Version 2016: no student discount, no developer version, and any version you own can only go on a single computer. The cheapest version to own is Home&Student - crippleware for $100 per computer.

Actually, I paid $79 for University version of Office (available to all students so my Seminary counts) that gives me all upgrades for 4 years on 2 computers and 2 phones/tablets. It is the same software that I am using for work, not a scaled down version. At the end of 4 years, I get to keep the version I have, just no upgrades. And they throw in the Office 365 web version. You just need to know where to look and what you need to qualify.

Virgil Buttram

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841987#Comment_841987

"To own, or not to own. That, is the question!"

To rephrase my answer:

I want to own books.

I don't care about owning features.

As long as I am still able to utilize Logos as a "integrated search library," I am ok with buying books and "renting" the features. If there comes a time, for whatever reason, I can no longer justify a LN subscription, at least I can utilize the software how I need it most.

I like the LN membership program, and am glad they moved in that direction... as long as the software engine continues to be made free.

That's... a very compelling perspective. Definitely food for thought.

Thanks!

Josh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841842#Comment_841842

If you look at Adobe's website, you cannot purchase their software. It is either rent or find something else. I am not a fan of this model, but it is better for the company who does not want to support (Tech support) 5 year old software.

The advantage of SaaS is you are always up to date.

I'm not so sure that Adobe is a good analogy here. Users of Adobe's software don't own thousands of individually licensed resources, they own the product purely for the features (software).

I just hope Logos never goes out of business. I have way too much invested at this point.

James Hudson

it looks as though the software industry is moving towards a subscription model.

This is not true. The only regularly quoted examples are Adobe and MS Office.

Most of the software innovation nowadays is in Mobile apps - which have a great model: Pay once, own software, lifetime free updates, in-app purchases if required. You can't rent a mobile app!

Interesting that some people have been comparing to the car market - how many rent cars for daily use?

Finally with LN, without owning after a few years of renting you will have paid more than us 'up-front-payment-owners' and still get caught in the trap of the necessity to keep paying or lose features. The marketing "access to all features" forever is only true if you keep on paying year after year after year. This is great for Logos (which is why they like it). Yes, I understand that you get access to features ahead of release of next versions (hence the Now in the name), but this is almost like paying to beta test new features!

I REALLY hope that owners never lose out (BTW I'm fine with 2 models running concurrentlyt with people renting too if they want to or need to - some people rent houses and I'm fine with that too!).

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841991#Comment_841991

At the end of 4 years, I get to keep the version I have, just no upgrades.

I don't think that is correct, but I fully admit I could be wrong. With my subscription, I have had popups appear that "updates were available" and documents would fail to open until the update downloaded and installed. The warning I received said that I needed a valid license (or something to that effect).

If what you say is true, I wonder why this happens to me from time to time... perhaps I just have a different sort of license than you do.

Erik

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841883#Comment_841883

I'm holding on to ownership BECAUSE of that perception.

Maybe Logos 7 is the last version that we can buy and own. I wouldn't want to miss that opportunity. Maybe Logos 8 ownership option are gonna be massively unattractive.

Consider Microsoft Office...

Version 2010: you could buy and own the Pro Plus version with student discount for about $100, and install that on 2 computers.
Version 2013: students only got discount on the subscription model, so I had to retract to the developer version for $200, and could still install that on 2 computers.
Version 2016: no student discount, no developer version, and any version you own can only go on a single computer. The cheapest version to own is Home&Student - crippleware for $100 per computer.

Therefore, Microsoft can now support me on Office 2013 for the next 10 years, up to the last day when support officially ends. (Unless the Lord returns before that date.)

Adobe has already been named. There's a good avternative for graphics software: Corel. Those guys haven't even introduced a subscription model yet. Maybe that's the case because they're Canadian...

The only kind of software that really justifies a subscription model in my opinion is anti virus software, because it constantly needs updates, updates, updates. If you're not on the latest and greatest for a single day, it can have very ugly consequences.

(I hope my boss is not gonna read this, because we only do subscriptions. Anyway, this is my personal opinion, and not my professional opinion. )

Many schools are providing Office 2016 free to students. My seminary provided it for free and I am allowed multiple installs as long as I maintain active status.

GregW

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/842130#Comment_842130

Most of the software innovation nowadays is in Mobile apps - which have a great model: Pay once, own software, lifetime free updates, in-app purchases if required. You can't rent a mobile app!

But a lot of mobile apps will only work fully if you buy a subscription, and I've got at least two (Omnifocus and TextExpander) that charge for added-functionality upgrades. The "pay once, free upgrades for life" is not going to be commercially viable in the medium term and as the mobile app market matures, that will change.

Pin addition, virtually any mobile app with ongoing content updates does require a subscription, and things like the full version of Hootsuite and many others require an ongoing subscription, so I think you can rent mobile apps.

Jan Krohn

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/842329#Comment_842329

I've had one app, that at some point stopped receiving updates, and ceased working after the next Android upgrade. The manufacturer then offered a new version at another $10.

Mobile apps have just the same life span as normal software, and after the end of life, you can only continue using them for that long until OS updates cause them to break for good.

Bill Moore

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/842331#Comment_842331

I've had one app, that at some point stopped receiving updates, and ceased working after the next Android upgrade. The manufacturer then offered a new version at another $10.

Mobile apps have just the same life span as normal software, and after the end of life, you can only continue using them for that long until OS updates cause them to break for good.

Precisely. I had something similar to happen when I purchased an add-on to eliminate advertising. It was for "life." After a couple of years, the company switched to a new annual subscription model and gave us who had bought the previous app "for life" a "free" one-year subscription.

Paul-C

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/842372#Comment_842372

Just another data point for those interested in what other users have done:

I've never been a Logos Now subscriber - so am not qualified to talk about the benefits of it. I'm not a Logos power-user by any stretch of the imagination, so I'm not likely to fully exploit all the new LN features as they're frequently released.

As I like the idea of being able to buy a licence to use the software indefinitely - and not subscribe - I opted to upgrade to Logos 7 through buying the Full Feature Set. My dynamic price with a new L7 library was $85. Assuming a 2-year upgrade cycle, I was able to benefit from L7 (admittedly without the other LN benefits...) for an average $42.50 / year (versus around $100 / year for LN) and be able to "own" the FFS. I was happy with that compromise.

Also, through "buying" now - and assuming Faithlife still offer a purchase option for Logos 8 when it materialises - I've hopefully locked in a lower upgrade price for next time too.

Jan Krohn

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/842372#Comment_842372

Your purchase was for life of the app, not for your life. That's always the meaning of "for life" in practice.

Bill Moore

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/842379#Comment_842379

Just another data point for those interested in what other users have done:

I've never been a Logos Now subscriber - so am not qualified to talk about the benefits of it. I'm not a Logos power-user by any stretch of the imagination, so I'm not likely to fully exploit all the new LN features as they're frequently released.

As I like the idea of being able to buy a licence to use the software indefinitely - and not subscribe - I opted to upgrade to Logos 7 through buying the Full Feature Set. My dynamic price with a new L7 library was $85. Assuming a 2-year upgrade cycle, I was able to benefit from L7 (admittedly without the other LN benefits...) for an average $42.50 / year (versus around $100 / year for LN) and be able to "own" the FFS. I was happy with that compromise.

Also, through "buying" now - and assuming Faithlife still offer a purchase option for Logos 8 when it materialises - I've hopefully locked in a lower upgrade price for next time too.

Good points. I don't need to add a large library at this stage (started with L3 Gold and kept increasing to L6 Diamond, so I'm considering L7 Gold). The FFS would cost $121, obviously less than two years of LN membership. And, too, I was thinking this morning that without any additional feature sets, Logos would probably satisfy my needs for years. It's a great program as it is. The problem is I need to learn how to use it better.

Bill Moore

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/842380#Comment_842380

Your purchase was for life of the app, not for your life. That's always the meaning of "for life" in practice.

I agree, Jan, that this is what it means in practice. That is not the way consumers typically perceive it, and I suspect this is intentional.

Regardless, the point I was making is that things don't stay the same. Models change, and it makes our technological plans for down the road fairly speculative.