My brain hurts, please help me decide.

Not sure if this option is implied in your email above but:

You could take out a Logos Now subscription and spend a few days determining which of the new features in Logos 7 you want/need.

If the answer is none you could then wait for the free update to arrive which I believe will give you exactly what you have now in version 7.

You could also determine whether the Logos Now only features are something that you want in which case you might want to reconsider the rental option.

Of course if you then decide you want the new stuff but not the Logos Now only stuff, and you really don't want to rent, you are back to what is the best way to buy the features.

Donn Arms said:

I have all the books I require, and more. To upgrade to the "Full Feature Set" will cost $299. I do not want to be locked into renting the software long-term. BUT, if I go with a Logos Now subscription for a year, that will cost $89. I can then use the 30% discount to purchase the full feature set for $209.

Yes, that's pretty much correct, bar some change.* Assuming you haven't rounded your $299 figure, I'd expect the Feature Set to cost $211.79 with membership, which would leave you $2.78 out of pocket after the subscription. Definitely worth it though, for a year of Logos Now.

* The difference is because you don't get a 30% discount with Logos Now. It's 25%. The current promo pushes that to 36.25%, but the promo also lets you have a 10% discount on the Feature Pack price without Logos Now. So you're still a lot better off, but not quite 30% better off.

Donn Arms said:

Russel Taylor said:

I can purchase Verbum Bronze for $169.41.

This is why my head hurts so much. For me, going to Standard Bronze is $313. With that I get NOTHING I am interested in that I do not already have.

It sounds like you must have purchased your Platinum before Logos 6, right?  That would explain why the feature upgrade is higher for you than for me.

If you're not interested in any of the new features, you could just stick with what you have.  You'll get the free engine upgrade to Logos 7 when they release it.  However, once Logos 8 comes out the Feature upgrade will be even more expensive, if you decide you ever want to "catch up."

Logos Now kind of causes the same thing to happen, I think.  If you don't want to lose the newer features, you have to keep paying...

My plan is to upgrade to a Starter 7 soon.  I can do that for just over $50.  Then eventually upgrade to a Bronze edition to complete the feature set.

Donn Arms said:

If I just wait I will be getting a free update to Logos 7 or just some of the stuff in Logos 7 added

My understanding is that if you wait you will get all of the features that you currently have in a version that is called "Logos 7 Free". My assumption here is that these will be updated to include at least some if not all the enhancements made for version 7.

You will not get all of the new stuff and, again based on my understanding, you will not get the new datasets. In the current architecture of Logos it is often the datasets that are the real value in the new features.

Whilst you may get some of the new features my assumption here is that if you do they will be fairly minor. So basically expect that Logos 7 Free will be what you have now made a bit prettier with a Logos 7 badge.

The point is that if you are happy with what you have, don't want the new stuff and basically want to upgrade for support/software currency issues then the free upgrade may be an option.

This is the core value of Faithlife's promise to keep the core engine "free". Personally I like playing with the new stuff, which is why I have a Logos Now subscription. The main downside I can see is that if you skip Logos 7 the cost of upgrading from 6 to 8 would be greater (possibly twice as much). 

Mine says Portfolio V5 IH and I think the IH here equates to the LE mentioned above.

There used to be an explanation in the FAQS about the two letter combinations, from memory one was the Library Level and the other was the feature set and one was ascending through the alphabet while the other descended. Don't think it was ever something to worry about it was just one of the ways that Faithlife tried to track things in the past.

Graham Owen said:

There used to be an explanation in the FAQS about the two letter combinations, from memory one was the Library Level and the other was the feature set and one was ascending through the alphabet while the other descended. Don't think it was ever something to worry about it was just one of the ways that Faithlife tried to track things in the past.

The two-letters both mean the same thing. They belong together. 

1. RA: Libronix 1
2. QB: Libronix 2
3. OC: Libronix 3
4. ND: Libronix 3 (maintenance update)
5. LE: Logos 4
6. KF: Logos 4 (maintenance update)
7. JG: Logos 4 (maintenance update)
8. IH: Logos 5
9. GK: Logos 6

I presume Logos 7 packages are FL, but I can't see that anywhere.

Donn Arms said:

It is only 5% but this is what I see on the Logos Now page:

• Always save at least 10% on Logos 7 Libraries
• Always save at least 25% on Logos 7 Feature Sets
• PLUS, Logos Now members save an additional 5% on top of our already great introductory discount
• And always access every Logos 7 feature for no additional charge

I understand this to say that normally Logos Now members regularly get a 25% discount for now but they are giving an "additional 5%."

No, it's not saying that, as I explained earlier.

1. Logos Now members regularly get a 25% discount.
2. There's a "great introductory discount" for everyone of 10%
3. Logos Now members save an additional 5% on top of the "great introductory discount", so save 15%.
4. So non-members save 10%, whereas members save 25%+15% = 36.35%.

If you're price is $299 as a non-member, then the regular price would be $332.22.

If you were a Now member, you'd normally get a 25% discount on the regular price, which is $249.17. But at the moment you get an extra 15% (the normal 10% plus the additional 5%), which will bring your price down to $211.79. That's almost the same as 30% off your $299, but not quite.

Donn Arms said:

Thanks Mark. So then I am correct to conclude that if I subscribe to Logos Now for one year, and then purchase the Logos 7 Full Feature Set, it would be approximately the same as buying Logos 7 and getting a year of Now for free. Correct?

Yes. 

Frank Mickle said:

I read this thread... trying to decide myself what to do??? If I have L6 and if I go with Logos Now, then why would I then want to turn around and purchase L7 Feature Set? Why rent it and buy it at the same time?

Frank, the only reason to buy the full feature set is if you stop subscribing to Logos Now. If you own the L7 feature set, you would not lose those capabilities. If you have only Logos Now and stop your membership, you revert back to the feature/data sets of Logos 6. I'm in the same boat. If you continue to be a Logos Now member, you keep the latest feature sets.

I'm going one way or the other: either Logos Now or purchasing the full feature set. Some do both to cover the "just in case" scenario.

Regardless, you keep your books no matter what.

Frank Mickle said:

O.K. Thanks Bill.  This might be off topic of the original post....  but do you know if using Logos Now burns more data than buying the program?  I am in a rural area and data is metered.

There are a few additional features of Logos Now that require an internet connection — but they use relatively little data.

Logos Now also provides 2-3 preview resources each month, which will use some data to download. If one of those is a MobileEd course with lots of videos, that would be a lot of data, but the videos will only download if you watch them.

You might get a new dataset every couple of months. That will add a little.

So, expect more data usage using Logos Now, but not a whole lot more (unless you play MobileEd videos).

O.K. Thanks guys...  I'm assuming that Mark meant relatively "little" data?

Thanks again to both of you.  Mark your knowledge/info is awesome!  Thanks for the help!

Rick Ausdahl said:

I'm a little confused by these examples, because sales told me I won't save anything on the L7 features set or base packages by becoming a Logos Now member before making L7 purchases.  Here's my story.

I've purchased a few packages in the past as Logos has moved from Libronix through L6.  I've also made several resource purchases independent of packages.  My last package purchase was L6 Gold.  This week I ordered the L7 Standard Silver and the L7 P&C Bronze packages, which automatically provided me with the L7 Full Feature set.  But after the purchase, I started seriously thinking about Logos Now and began to wonder what my net cost would be if I were to return what I had purchased without a LN membership, then join LN and repurchase the L7 packages as a LN member.  In doing that, I thought I might save enough on the packages to cover a good portion of the $90 first-year LN membership.

I must completely misunderstand the savings that will be recognized by LN members, because I was told I wouldn't save anything up front by going that route, but that I would save on future purchases down the road.  For the record, I am not complaining.  I'm pleased with the packages I purchased as they provide me not only with some new resources that I feel will enhance my library, but the L7 Full Feature set as well.  Nevertheless, I am confused about how and when the savings benefit of being a LN member come into play.  

I don't think that's correct, Rick, if I understand what you're saying. I've run the scenarios for myself. If I purchase L7 Standard Gold, the price of the library by itself is less with Logos Now than is the library by itself in combination with the Full Feature Set.

What if you call Logos, perhaps talk with another sales person, and ask him or her to run the numbers both ways? You could return what you bought and start over with Logos Now.

Rick Ausdahl said:

Bill Moore said:

I don't think that's correct, Rick, if I understand what you're saying. I've run the scenarios for myself. If I purchase L7 Standard Gold, the price of the library by itself is less with Logos Now than is the library by itself in combination with the Full Feature Set.

What if you call Logos, perhaps talk with another sales person, and ask him or her to run the numbers both ways? You could return what you bought and start over with Logos Now.

Hi, Bill!  Thanks for your reply.

The portion of your reply that I underlined and italicized may explain why the sales person told me I wouldn't save anything now.  I.e.  Even if I become a member of LN, I still want to own the Full Feature set, whereas your scenario (if I understand it correctly) assumes the Full Feature set will be obtained via either LN membership or via purchase of the Full Feature set, but not both.  But based on the following bullet points from one of Faithlife's LN web pages, I assumed being a LN member would save me 25% on the cost of the Full Feature set and save me an additional 5% on the two libraries, in which case, the savings on the Feature set and the libraries would have offset part of the first year LN membership cost.  I.e.  I was anticipating the savings on the Feature set and libraries would have reduced my true first year LN membership cost to about $40 after factoring in the savings on the Feature set and the libraries.  But... I guess that's not the case.

From the LN Web site:

• Always save at least 10% on Logos 7 Libraries
• Always save at least 25% on Logos 7 Feature Sets
• PLUS, Logos Now members save an additional 5% on top of our already great introductory discount

Unless we're just talking past each other, Rick (and it's entirely possible that I am not rightly understanding what you're saying), I still think you would save by joining LN and then purchasing your libraries and the Full Feature Set, if indeed you want the FFS.

Have you seen Phil's Logos 7 Price and Discount Calculator? I plugged in the numbers pertaining to my situation:

Library + Feature Set

• With Logos Now: $438.39
• Without Logos Now: $464.18

It's not a great savings with what I'm buying, but if I wanted to buy Logos Now and then the Standard Gold plus the Feature Set, I would save $25.79, effectively reducing the cost of Logos Now to $64.20.

You're most welcome, Rick. Please let us know how it turns out.

Dave Hooton said:

Rick Ausdahl said:

Does that make sense?  Did I go about it right?

No, because the "price after discounts" isn't the price you paid at 3. and 4.

Roughly for Library - actual discount would be $162

For FFS, start with $539.99 (the price for guests discounted by 10%)  and use  $393 as your discount.

Also change 'No' to 'Yes' as a LN member (else the calculator gives weird figures for Library).

For reverse engineering this seems consistent with my actual discounts and quoted prices on Silver.

Just to clarify though, the amounts I entered for 3. and 4. are not the amounts I "paid".  I understood the spreadsheet to be asking for my discount amount, not the price I paid, and that my discount would be calculated as follows:

The Full Price - What I paid = Discount asked for in lines 3. and 4.

Are you saying that lines 3. and 4. should actually be the price I paid, not the discount I calculated?

I guess I don't want anyone to spend much more time responding to this, because the actual savings I'll experience (if any) are not likely to be enough to warrant the time it will take for forum members to straighten me out.  [:S] 

Rick Ausdahl said:

Bill, thanks again for chipping in.  I trust the popcorn-removal project went well. 

I know it's probably more fun trying to straighten me out than to remove popcorn from the ceiling, but even more fun to be actually be using Logos.  So as I mentioned to Dave, don't spend any more of your valuable time on this.  The sun will rise every day this week whether or not I spent a little more than I could/should have, so I'm ready/willing to let my question go unanswered.  Thanks again for your help!!!

I've enjoyed interacting with you, Rick. It's certainly not a waste of my time. And I agree about the priority of actually using Logos than talking about it! Besides, there have been so many snarky comments in threads lately, unfortunately all too common with the release of a major update. I appreciate your kind spirit.

And, thanks, the popcorn ceiling removal is going well. A man in our church who is 6'10" and has done this is an unbelievable help, plus the project makes my wife happy. Her happiness is enough for me!

Rick Ausdahl said:

I know what you mean.  Today my wife and I celebrated our 39th wedding anniversary and enjoyed a very simple outing to a nearby river town for a lunch on the river, followed by a pleasant walk and visiting a few shops, then a "historic tour" of the town via trolley car .  She's my best friend and blessing.

I bought the Full Feature offer- then submitted it for a refund today- why? I have Logos Now- thats all I need. 

For me all the so called upgrades just were not- very disappointing.

So $89 a year for me- quick- easy- and no disappiontments- its a great day in Mayberry:)

Rick Ausdahl said:

Since I have already purchased the packages, here's how I arrived at the discount values required by the spreadsheet.

1. I signed out of Faithlife so the web site would not see what I already own.
2. With the current 25% off special Faithlife is running, it showed a total cost of $899.99 for the Silver package ($495.00 for the library and $404.99 for the Full Feature set.)
3. I subtracted the $343.70 I paid for the library to get the package discount amount that I plugged into the spreadsheet.
4. I subtracted the $131.50 I paid for the feature set, to get the feature set discount amount that I plugged into the spreadsheet.
5. I interpret the last cell value of -$44.75 to reflect what my net-out-of-pocket expense would be for the first year of LN membership.  I.e. a savings of -$44.75 means my first year of LN membership would cost me $44.75 (less any additional savings for the P&C Bronze package.)

Does that make sense?  Did I go about it right?

That wouldn't work because of the current special offers. The "What is your Discount For Products You Own" is calculated BEFORE the Special Logos savings, so it's difficult to reverse engineer the results after your purchase.

If you bought with Logos Now, I'd bump those figures up by 15% (divide by 0.85), or at least adjust them until the "Your Price after Discounts" is correct.

Mark Barnes said:

That wouldn't work because of the current special offers. The "What is your Discount For Products You Own" is calculated BEFORE the Special Logos savings, so it's difficult to reverse engineer the results after your purchase.

If you bought with Logos Now, I'd bump those figures up by 15% (divide by 0.85), or at least adjust them until the "Your Price after Discounts" is correct.