Bad (self-reflexive) Links

Not sure why, but the links in ESL are self-referencing when they should point to the resources that the links actually NAME...

For instance, this should show a window of TWOT (per the pop-up notation in lower right) but all it does is show the same ESL entry...

The same thing happens when the cursor is on the link for GK (Swanson's DBL-H); all that is shown is the same ESL entry...

Please fix this asap. Thanks.

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MJ. Smith

ESL? the support or bibliographic information would be helpful.

NB.Mick

Not sure why, but the links in ESL are self-referencing when they should point to the resources that the links actually NAME...

The why is easy: ESL helpfully is keyed to various indexes - thus non-owners of TWOT can follow TWOT links into ESL etc.

Please fix this asap. Thanks.

You should be able to fix this yourself by prioritizing another resource (e.g. TWOT) over ESL.

NB.Mick

Add on:

For instance, this should show a window of TWOT (per the pop-up notation in lower right)

No it shouldn't. This is a datatype reference, not a resource link. Therefore it should show a window of the highest prioritized resource that has an entry in TWOT datatype notation (i.e. is indexed according to this datatype) for TWOT 1909b - which happens to be ESL in your case.

So priorization becomes relevant - you may even need to employ advanced priorization to have the links from within a resource point to that specific resource even if it is not the highest prioritized for that datatype.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/857532#Comment_857532

No it shouldn't. This is a datatype reference, not a resource link. Therefore it should show a window of the highest prioritized resource that has an entry in TWOT datatype notation (i.e. is indexed according to this datatype) for TWOT 1909b - which happens to be ESL in your case.

So priorization becomes relevant - you may even need to employ advanced priorization to have the links from within a resource point to that specific resource even if it is not the highest prioritized for that datatype.

Try

This ensures that

ESL is highest priority for Hebrew Strong's (and nothing else!); and that
TWOT is highest priority for TWOT numbers; which therefore
prevents ESL from being a source for TWOT numbers; and also
prevents DBL Hebrew/Aramaic from being a source for both Hebrew Strong's and TWOT numbers!

Do the same for Greek i.e.

This ensures TDNT will be used for TDNT numbers and not ESL or DBL Greek.

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/857530#Comment_857530

Not sure why, but the links in ESL are self-referencing when they should point to the resources that the links actually NAME...

The why is easy: ESL helpfully is keyed to various indexes - thus non-owners of TWOT can follow TWOT links into ESL etc.

Please fix this asap. Thanks.

You should be able to fix this yourself by prioritizing another resource (e.g. TWOT) over ESL.

I don't find the word "helpful" to be legitimate in this context...imo. I can follow Dave's procedures below (your comment--above this one), I suppose, but I find the need for such action to be onerous...imo. A link that is called "ESL" should GO TO ESL by default...imo.

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/857614#Comment_857614

I appreciate your effort and help, Dave. Now a question (I suppose anyone who knows can answer)...

Since ESL has both Hebrew and Greek, how do I set it for both? Once I set it for Hebrew, Greek isn't an option.

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/858538#Comment_858538

Since I wasn't sure how to proceed with ESL, I decided to at least set the TWOT link...and it worked about as well as I expect all post-L3 versions of Logos to work...

After prioritizing TWOT to apply to TWOT only (green left), hovering over the TWOT link (green right) in ESL (orange left) results in...a link to ESL (orange right). [8o|]

[^o)]

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/858543#Comment_858543

I avoid answering Strong's questions as I never use it but ... I also wasn't quite sure what your question meant ...

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/858551#Comment_858551

How did you get two instances of the entry box? I only get one.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/858554#Comment_858554

I simply dragged the title over to priority twice.

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/858533#Comment_858533

Not sure why, but the links in ESL are self-referencing when they should point to the resources that the links actually NAME...

The why is easy: ESL helpfully is keyed to various indexes - thus non-owners of TWOT can follow TWOT links into ESL etc.

Please fix this asap. Thanks.

You should be able to fix this yourself by prioritizing another resource (e.g. TWOT) over ESL.

I don't find the word "helpful" to be legitimate in this context...imo. I can follow Dave's procedures below (your comment--above this one), I suppose, but I find the need for such action to be onerous...imo. A link that is called "ESL" should GO TO ESL by default...imo.

You should read my follow-up post above - this is a fundamental concept. Let me explain in some more words:

There are links that go to resources, as when you select a piece of text and use the "copy location as..." feature. In PBs or Reading Lists you'd see the syntax using logosres for resource. Such a link will always point to a location in a specific edition of a resource. Of course, this presupposes a) that the user wanting to follow the link has exactly this edition available - maybe because it is the only one existing - and b) that this specific resource is the most appropriate resource to open from the location you saw this reference.

There are situations where both of these requirements are not readily given. The most easy example are bible verse references (which are so 'everywhere' in a bible study software that we don't experience them as links in this way - in fact they are. This second kind of links go to a datatype, which is a resource-independent abstract layer of reference (the full syntax uses logosref for reference in those cases). Logos will then open the most high prioritized resource that is indexed according to this datatype - e.g. your preferred bible, not the one a 19th century commentary author used when writing. Without datatype references, we'd be stuck to one edition of a book ("as the prophet said on page 345").

It requires additional work for Faithlife to index a resource to a datatype, but especially when there are multiple resources indexed to the same datatype, this plays out very helpfully. With bibles this is obvious, but also with ancient manuscripts, early church fathers, Calvin's institutes etc - up to lexicons and dictionaries. Different users may own different resources - and even if they own multiple or even all resources indexed for a datatype, they may choose very different editions as their go-to resource for this.

This is the case for Strongs, for example. There are different lexicons of varying quality indexed according to Strongs numbers. Some people may like the work of Mr. Strong himself and the concordance-like material he put together from a KJV version. Others may like modernized versions of that. Others may not appreciate that material in the same way and prefer to use a rather different lexicon, that just makes use of the fact that Strongs numbers is a widely used way to reference all Greek and Hebrew lemmas in the bible. Priorization gives you the option to go to the lexicon of your choice among those you own that are keyed to Strongs (e.g. I personally like to see M-M rather than ESL when following a reference link to a Greek Strongs-#).

An issue comes up, when in a field of literature there are multiple established ways to reference the same content. In fact, the bible datatypes give example. Logos has done tremendous work with bible verse maps so that what one author references as Ps 40:2 opens in your preferred bible even if this version calls it Ps 39:3 (made up example but you know the reality behind that). Another one is original languages. We may index lexicons according to lemma, to Strongs, to TWOT or GK-numbers... Any lexicon could come up with a new scheme - however, unless others are referencing according to that scheme, Logos won't be able to follow. That is the point where it becomes helpful (especially for starters with a smaller library) to have one lexicon indexed to all reference keys out there. Whether the link originally referenced the original language word with its lemma or any of those number references, the user is able to look up the treatment in ESL, without owning any of the larger lexicons. That's why ESL's various indexes are really helpful. If your library grows and you have other lexicons, priorization is your tool to get this into the right order. And if you want only the "original" lexicon that introduced a datatype to answer to that, Dave showed you how to apply priorization to get this done.

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/858556#Comment_858556

I simply dragged the title over to priority twice.

Thanks. It's been so long since I bothered prioritizing anything that I forgot dragging was part of the process, plus, doing it twice didn't occur to me.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/858543#Comment_858543

After prioritizing TWOT to apply to TWOT only (green left), hovering over the TWOT link (green right) in ESL (orange left) results in...a link to ESL (orange right).

Which is why you needed to prioritize ESL as well (default prioritization allows ESL to intercept TWOT links).

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/858533#Comment_858533

A link that is called "ESL" should GO TO ESL by default...imo.

NB Mick has given a background for datatypes, and it should be noted that prioritization in Logos 3 was on the basis of datatype e.g.

Bible

Greek Strong's

ESL - default
DBL Greek

Hebrew Strong's

ESL - default
DBL Hebrew

TWOT #

TWOT - default
DBL Hebrew
ESL

TDNT #

TDNT - default
DBL Greek
ESL

So you usually got the resource you expected for a link. Logos 4 reverted to a "simpler" resource-based method and the significance of dataypes was lost, as well as the distinct possibility that default prioritization would not use the resource you expected for a link!