Why is Logos a CPU hog opening BIbles?
I am on 7.2, I have noticed for awhile, on a very fast Windows 10 computer (4 cores, 8 threads, 32GB memory, NVIDIA K5100M discrete graphics card, 2-high speed SSD RAID 0 disks, Haswell-class 3.20 GHz processors with turbo boost, all drivers are up to date), that when I bring up a Bible (usually one with an interlinear, like ESV, KJV, etc.), for about 20-30 seconds the fans come on, the mouse freezes, and then all is normal.
What could be causing this? I have all the visual filters turned off, that was my first guess. See the perfmon graph here, you can see in the circled part the performance was so bad the graph was not charted - this was the period when characters do not show that are typed, and the moue is frozen. This was opening KJV from the command box at the top of the Home Page, "KJV<enter>". Once it opened, which was fast, I typed "Heb4.1". The characters do not show for about 3-4 seconds. You can see from the graph it maxes out this computer from about 6:37:20 to 6:37:43, or about 23 seconds, then all is fine.
This seems to be a serious performance problems, any ideas what I can try turning off to see if it helps? Is it the size of my library (25,000 resources)?
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I have noticed that Logos becomes "not responding" in that situation (but opening from a panel). No response so far.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave it feels like Visual Filters but mine are all turned off. I wonder if some of the internal ones are processing even though not selected, kind of a 'just in case'?
I hope someone replies - this is way too slow for a workstation-class computer...
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I've experienced hangs in Logos 7 (with a larger library than yours), but nothing of the duration that you report, and certainly nothing ever that locks up the whole OS (including the mouse cursor); this sounds highly unusual.
Don Awalt said:You can see from the graph it maxes out this computer from about 6:37:20 to 6:37:43, or about 23 seconds, then all is fine.
It would be very interesting to see what the Logos.log file contains during this time period. (Or post a new log file and let us know what the relevant time period is in it.)
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OK, here you go Bradley, thanks for looking at all this - I hope you discover something!
I have attached all the files in the log folder - I deleted everything there prior to bringing up Verbum 7.2.
I also have 3 perfmon graphs here, so you can relate to the times in the logs. The first here, is just bringing up Verbum - as you can see, not bad - a very brief spike but well within the resources of the computer otherwise:
Next, I waited until the perfmon graph settled down to near zero - I suspect Verbum was doing some things to check resources, talk to the home star, etc. After a minute after that, I brought up ESV just by clicking a shortcut off my toolbar. That actually went fine, no freezes or mouse freezes; you can see again, the perfmon graph is very acceptable even though there is a pretty good sized spike for a 4 core 8 thread machine. I show this just in case it helps in seeing something different from the next case:
Since that went ok, I waited a few minutes or so - I watched the perfmon, it was very quiet the whole time. So then, I went back and typed into the command box 'NASB', and chose the 1995 edition which I Had not brought up for at least a few days if not longer. This really froze everything, mouse cursor not only froze but disappeared. You can see the perfmon graph lost it a few times, nothing even got drawn. This is the time period in the graph to really hone in on. I will also say, You will find in the log files the error file, there were TWO EXCEPTIONS that were logged! Maybe this is the issue? I didn't understand what they were.
Here is the log zip file. Good luck Bradley and thanks again!
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It appears that opening the NASB95 causes almost 300 visual filters to be evaluated. While each one runs pretty quickly (you have a fast machine), the sheer volume of searches appears to be causing the hang on your computer.
I have some ideas for how we can mitigate this (and will create a case) but in the meantime I think your best workaround is to delete non-essential visual filter documents. (It's not sufficient to uncheck them on the Visual Filters menu in the resource panel; they must be deleted. Alternatively, you can edit the VF document so that it searches within a resource you don't open frequently. Then, when you want to use it again, edit it to search within NASB95 or "All Bibles".)
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Thanks Bradley but I am confused - when I look at Documents, I have 40 Visual Filters. I am not a big users of VFs. Where are the 300? I have 62 Syntax searches, does that count? Still not 300.
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I have approximately 355 Collections? That couldn't affect opening a Bible could it?
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Sorry, I could have been a bit more precise. There are about 300 individual searches being run. This could be caused by a single Visual Filter document that has many separate rules (i.e., lines). I've attached a screenshot below of a VF document with two rules, as an example.
Here are some of the (many) searches that are being evaluated when you open a resource, if that helps you track down the document(s) involved:
- @VA
- @V?A
- @B
- @V??I
- @DV
- @R???S
- @D?S OR @J?S OR @N?S OR @R???S OR @V????S
- <EissfeldtHexateuch=Priestly>
- <EissfeldtHexateuch=Yahwist>
- <EissfeldtHexateuch=Elohist>
- <EissfeldtHexateuch==Deuteronomist>
- <LN4.26>,<LN9.3>,<LN12.1-12.7>,<LN12.12-12.15>,<LN14.42>,"word of God"
- lemma:יהוה BEFORE 0-2 WORDS ("answered","blessed","called","commanded","commands","cries","had","has","of host")
- lemma:יהוה BEFORE 0-2 WORDS ("of hosts has","roar","roars","said","spoke","spoken","thundered","told","utters","who")
- lemma:κύριος ANDEQUALS Lord
- lemma:Ἰησοῦς
I don't think any individual rule/VF is a problem; it's just the combination of multiple rules across multiple VF documents that is affecting your system. (As I wrote above, I think we can write some code to make it less of a problem, but for now the workaround will have to be reducing the amount of work Verbum tries to do when opening a resource by reducing the number of active VF documents.)
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OK, thanks for tracking it down, but one last question - is this new? There was a time this did not happen, and I have not added any of my own Visual Filters for a very long time.
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The last major change I can think of to this code happened when Logos 6.0 was released in a 64-bit version.
(It's possible that some new code has changed the behaviour in a subtle way and I'm not remembering it.)
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To close the loop on this Bradley, I deleted all my Visual Filters and the Bible opening went from 20-25 seconds before it was really available to instantaneous. No fans running, no high CPU usage. This seems to prove that Visual Filters totally consume a 4 CPU 8 thread computer when opening a Bible.
I will say I am not happy about this - it just doesn't seem right that 40 VFs can cause this, no matter how complicated, when used with software this complex. I have just resigned myself to the fact that a freezing software product is worse than a less functional one, so I won't be using VFs any more. I really hope this gets some attention,
I did some searching and you will find, when searching for Visual Filters along with freezing or crashing, several threads over the last 6-8 months, and in at least one case multiple users on the thread, complaining about VF related freezing and crashing. Those threads were never addressed/closed out once logs were posted. There really is a problem here.
Thanks Bradley for listening.
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Don Awalt said:
I will say I am not happy about this - it just doesn't seem right that 40 VFs can cause this, no matter how complicated, when used with software this complex. I have just resigned myself to the fact that a freezing software product is worse than a less functional one, so I won't be using VFs any more. I really hope this gets some attention,
It's not right; it's a bug in the software.
As I mentioned above, I've created a case in our bug tracker regarding this issue. We'll update this thread when there's news.
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flag
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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Alternatively, you can edit the VF document so that it searches within a resource you don't open frequently.
How does this help?
Reason I ask: VFs are somewhat complicated for the non-professional user and many of mine involve a skill set I acquired to write them which I have not retained. In other words, if I delete them, I don't know if I can re-create them (use-it-or-lose-it principle). I'm not aware of an alternative method to save them other than in the software, or worst-case, screen shots that I could manually retype later.
So the alternative method is appealing if it really helps and I can remember how to change them back later.
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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Indeed, even the flag has a bug. It should actually look like this ...
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Disciple of Christ (doc) said:
Indeed, even the flag has a bug. It should actually look like this ..
Bradley doesn't come from Australia!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Doc B said:
How does this help?
Reason I ask: VFs are somewhat complicated for the non-professional user and many of mine involve a skill set I acquired to write them which I have not retained. In other words, if I delete them, I don't know if I can re-create them (use-it-or-lose-it principle). I'm not aware of an alternative method to save them other than in the software, or worst-case, screen shots that I could manually retype later.
So the alternative method is appealing if it really helps and I can remember how to change them back later.
When a resource is opened, the application tries to find all applicable Visual Filter documents (so they can be listed on the VFs) menu. This proceeds in two phases:
- Find all VF documents that have a search range that includes the current resource.
- Execute all the searches in those documents to find documents that have at least one result. We don't want to show documents with 0 matches on the menu because turning them on/off has no effect.
It's step 2 that's causing the performance problem for Don (and others). By changing the resources being search in a VF document, you can filter it out in step 1 and avoid the performance problems of step 2, without having to delete the document (and later on having to remember how to recreate it).
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It's step 2 that's causing the performance problem for Don (and others). By changing the resources being search in a VF document, you can filter it out in step 1 and avoid the performance problems of step 2
I'm closer to understanding than I was...I'll go try changing some of the target resources in a few of my VFs. (I think I have one or two that search 'All Bibles'.)
Thanks for the help, Bradley. Or, in the spirit of the thread, G'deye, mate!
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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I know Bradley's from across the ditch. I have some lovely friends from NZ.
Dave Hooton said:Disciple of Christ (doc) said:Indeed, even the flag has a bug. It should actually look like this ..
Bradley doesn't come from Australia!
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I deleted all VF to keep my computer running fast. The benefit of fast outweighs the benefit of VF
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Josh Hunt said:
I deleted all VF to keep my computer running fast. The benefit of fast outweighs the benefit of VF
Can we assume after two years, Bradley's case didn't get too far? Meaning, your Logos' Bibles get a lot faster after deletes?
I saw the mention of L6 and 64bit. My impression still is that L5 was the cat's meow.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Denise said:
Can we assume after two years, Bradley's case didn't get too far?
The case referred to in https://community.logos.com/forums/p/133323/866528.aspx#866528 was implemented. The OP's issue of high CPU, mouse freezing, etc. is fixed.
Josh is cross-posting from this thread: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/176404.aspx. Related but different.
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The case referred to in https://community.logos.com/forums/p/133323/866528.aspx#866528 was implemented.
Thank you Bradley. Questions:
- Is this a server-side fix that we can all enjoy immediately? (If client side, when/which releases will it be in?)
- Does this apply to L7 and L8?
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Thank you, Bradley. I was one of the deleters.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I stand corrected. The case for the OP's (specific) issue is still open; I was mistakenly thinking of something else.
However, there have been a number of changes to the search engine since it was posted (the “new search engine” was announced in 7.3 Beta 3), and I don't think anyone has re-tested that specific problem to see if it's still as severe.
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