Bug: Logos 7 search analysis includes punctuation in "form" field.
Not all occurrences of each form is listed as being of the same form when one drags the form column head to the left to sort (or group) by it. Because of the erroneous inclusion of the punctuation they are treated as separate forms of the word.
Example: ["SEARCH ALL BIBLE Text in N.T. in NASB95 for <Lemma = lbs/el/τελέω>"]
One will see the punctuation treated as a part of the word in 6 of the forms and each of the 6 and only these 6 also have spaces in the field.
There are comas, periods and spaces. All the spaces in the field are only found where the punctuation exist in the form field.
Analysis results exported to excel and the forms sorted alphabetically.
In excel the cells were tested by:
=a1=a2
Some cells that look like they have identical contents failed this and I could not discover why. I could not see the difference between ἐτέλεσαν and ἐτέλεσαν but Excel identified them as separate words (not equal).
=len(a1)=len(trim(a1)) FALSE result indicates a space is present
The forms from the above search:
| ἐτέλεσαν |
| ἐτέλεσαν |
| ἐτέλεσεν |
| ἐτέλεσεν |
| ἐτέλεσεν |
| ἐτέλεσεν |
| ἐτέλεσεν |
| ἐτελέσθη |
| ἐτελέσθη |
| τελεῖ |
| τελεῖται. |
| τελεῖτε |
| τελεῖτε, |
| τελέσητε |
| τελέσητε. |
| τελεσθῇ |
| τελεσθῇ |
| τελεσθῇ |
| τελεσθῇ. |
| τελεσθῆναι |
| τελεσθήσεται |
| τελεσθήσονται |
| τελεσθῶσιν |
| τελέσωσιν |
| τελοῦσα |
| τετέλεκα, |
| τετέλεσται |
| Τετέλεσται, |
Comments
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This is a good find and it is primarily the fault of the English-Greek reverse interlinear. It can be seen from the context menu search syntax e.g. "τελεσθῇ." instead of τελεσθῇ
It applies to ESV and probably other RI's.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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I think someone is missing a call to a subroutine that cleans the field of non-relevant characters and this should be corrected. A person does not need to get messed up simply because they are thinking English.
David Hooton's comment is most helpful and appreciated. He has helped me to see that one can circumvent the problem by doing the same search in NA27, NA28, UBS4, UBS5 or some but not each Bibles in the collection created by
type:bible AND subject:"Bible. N.T.-Greek" to avoid using the interlinear Bibles.
Changing to a different Bible is a few extra steps for those not thinking in Greek but it can get the job done.
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Dave Hooton said:
This is a good find and it is primarily the fault of the English-Greek reverse interlinear. It can be seen from the context menu search syntax e.g. "τελεσθῇ." instead of τελεσθῇ
It applies to ESV and probably other RI's.
Forgive me if I'm missing something. It sounds like there are some words that are including punctuation in with the morphological information when you search for that word. Are you seeing the period in the manuscript section of the context menu?
Can either Dave or Daniel give me steps to replicate the behavior?
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Ok Tommy,
let’s do a “Bible” search to replicate the issue.
“ALL BIBLE TEXT” in Matthew-Revelation in New American Standard Bible: 1995 update
Let us do a generic search suggested by Logos search:
With the “find” field empty. Scroll down to the bottom of the page and under
LANGUAGES
This Translated as That
(choose) <Lemma = lbs/el/λόγος> ANDEQUALS word
On the right side choose “Analysis” from Grid/Verses/Aligned/Analysis
Please make sure both the “Reference” and “Form” columns are visible.
Now examine in the “Form” column for the "References" below and you will see the punctuation included in the “Form” column as shown below. You will see the punctuation in this view of Logos and also in the results exported to Excel. (these verses are in the order exported, but only include the offenders ) Also notice the mark in Matthew 15:6 - that " ⸃ " mark (λόγον⸃) is not in the printed edition, the Logos edition or the inline interlinear. i.e. I don't know where it came from. (also 2 verses in Acts have it.)
Now take it a step further and grab "Form Column" to the left for "Drag column here to group by that column" and see how the punctuation in the "Form Field" messes it all up.
Hope this helps and thank you for your interest in the issue and its resolution.
Reference Form
Matthew 13:22 λόγον,
Matthew 15:23 λόγον.
Matthew 22:46 λόγον,
Mark 2:2 λόγον.
Mark 4:19 λόγον,
Mark 4:33 λόγον,
Luke 8:13 λόγον,
Acts 8:4 λόγον.
2 Timothy 4:2 λόγον,
Hebrews 12:19 λόγον·
2 Peter 1:19 λόγον,
Matthew 15:6 λόγον⸃
Matthew 8:8 λόγῳ,
Matthew 8:16 λόγῳ,
Luke 7:7 λόγῳ,
1 Corinthians 2:13 λόγοις,
Ephesians 5:6 λόγοις,
2 Thessalonians 2:17 λόγῳ⸃
1 Timothy 6:3 λόγοις,
2 Peter 3:5 λόγῳ,
Luke 1:2 λόγου,
Colossians 4:3 λόγου,
Titus 1:9 λόγου,
Mark 4:15 λόγος,
John 1:1 λόγος,
John 1:1 λόγος.
Acts 13:15 λόγος⸃
Acts 19:20 λόγος⸃
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Are you seeing the period in the manuscript section of the context menu?
In Matthew 13:22 uses "logon" twice. Both occurrences are followed by a comma in the surface text. However, in the data from the search, the Form of the first one appears without the comma while the Form of the second one appears with the comma. In the context menu (right click on the word) they are the same, the first without and the 2nd with.
Luke 8:13 has no comma in the NASB surface text but the search results and the context menu shows a comma. NA28 places a comma after λόγον here.
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Tommy Ball said:
Are you seeing the period in the manuscript section of the context menu?
It's not difficult to find examples
The search term generated is "σου,"
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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I'm able to replicate this. I'll submit a ticket.
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