Pirke and Rabba?

I keep running into references to various Pirke and Rabba texts that apparently I do not have in my library. For instance, WBC on 2 Pet 2:7 references Pirqe R. El. 25 (Pirqe Rabbi Eliezer) and Gen. Rab. 49:13 (Midraš Rabbah on Genesis or Genesis Rabba). Are these resources available in the Faithlife store? If so, what are the titles? I often find multiple references to Sifre as well.

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PetahChristian

The Midrashim has been suggested for a while now. I don't think that Genesis Rabbah has made it past a suggestion.

I know there's a Jacob Neusner Jewish Studies Bundle Pre-Pub but it doesn't mention what specific translations are included.

DMB

Agree with OP. I don't understand the whole midrashim texts issue and the Logos library.

I get the feeling it's a publisher / translation equation, which means limited/expensive collections (JPS) or large/expensive collections (the Neusner prepub, with its mysterious 'select works').

But then, I don't know the Logos market. It seems to be maybe 2nd-3rd year seminary, which doesn't stretch too far. Just my impression.

Matthew

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/896689#Comment_896689

I love Logos and it's the only Bible software I've used since 1996 when it came on CD-ROMs that you had to switch back and forth while using it, but the lack of some Jewish resources is truly frustrating and I'm at the point where I'm probably going to break down and get a starter package from Accordance just to get some needed titles. Mind you, Logos of course has many more titles than Accordance on every subject, but there seems to be some resources that Logos, for whatever reason, just isn't going to offer. Here are just some of the titles that are available on Accordance that I would purchase from Logos if they were available:

Sifre Debarim (halakhic midrash on Deuteronomy)

Sifra (halakhic midrash to Leviticus)

Sifre BeMidbar (halakhic midrash to Numbers)

Hebrew New Testament (I own the Logos version which is the modern Hebrew translation, but the Accordance version includes the Delitzsch translation which I want as well)

Hebrew Old & New Testament audio

The Jewish Annotated New Testament (this is a best-seller, currently #6 on Amazon in Judaism, and a second edition is coming in October--it would be great if Logos would put this in the new Pre-Order program and release it in October)

This is $295 worth of resources I would buy today from Logos if it were available, especially if they were part of a larger Judaism bundle. I've had the Neusner bundle ordered on pre-pub for more than a year and it hasn't budged and will likely get deleted even though it's an unbelievable value at 67% off--$400 for 99 volumes and 28,114 pages. Then there's these titles on Pre-Pub:

The Tosefta

Commentary on the New Testament from the Talmud and Midrash

The Complete Jewish Study Bible Notes (#4 on Amazon for Messianic Judaism)

Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus, vol. 5 (it's only $9.95 and completes the series, without it we're stuck owning only 4 of the 5 volumes)

I've had Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus ordered on pre-pub for well over a year and have seen others in the forums say that they've had it ordered for much longer than that. We gave it a push awhile back that finally got it to 'Almost There,' but it hasn't moved since.

One final request: A Logos version of a Siddur (Jewish prayer book). At least portions of these prayers go back to the Second Temple and would have been prayed by Jesus and the disciples. Here are examples from Amazon:

Siddur Tehillat Hashem

The Koren Sacks Siddur

The Complete ArtScroll Siddur

Messianic Judaism is a fast-growing movement and Logos should get ahead of it and cater to this market. As someone who has previously purchased the Logos 6 Jewish Studies Bundle, XL and the Judaica Research Library (220 vols.) as well as many other Jewish and Messianic Jewish resources, I know that I would purchase all of the above titles through Logos if they were available.

As Dr. Michael Heiser likes to say, "the context of the Old Testament is the ancient Near East, and the context of the New Testament is Second Temple Judaism." If you want to understand Jesus and the New Testament writers, you've got to study Second Temple Judaism and learn to think as they thought. So every Christian should want to learn as much as possible from resources like these, in my opinion. If enough of us keep asking for them, Logos will hopefully respond.

Small Heath

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/896707#Comment_896707

Messianic Judaism is a fast-growing movement and Logos should get ahead of it and cater to this market.

It would be great if Logos would offer a base package for this with the appropriate resources, or even a bundle.

Dale Heath

PetahChristian

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/896723#Comment_896723

Messianic Judaism is a fast-growing movement and Logos should get ahead of it and cater to this market.

It would be great if Logos would offer a base package for this with the appropriate resources, or even a bundle.

Yes!

Having attended an evangelical Christian church, I was never taught anything about Messianic Judaism until I heard a speaker from Chosen People Ministries talk about the Messiah in the Passover. I had no idea what was missing until I encountered these teachings, prayers, blessings, and songs.

Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/896707#Comment_896707

Thanks for your comments Matthew. I very much agree with what you have said concerning the need for more Jewish resources to be available in Logos, including those you have named. Personally, I have invested heavily in what has been available in Jewish resources in the software and also bid for the large Jacob Neusner collection in 2015 and the 'Commentary on the New Testament from the Talmud and Midrash' in 2013. Unfortunately, these seem to be continuing to languish in the Pre-pub twilight zone!

I would like to see The Midrash Rabbah (with notes) made available to us in Logos. While I have a hardback copy of the 10 volume Soncino Press (1939 edition), its clearly the advantage of electronic tagging and cross referencing within the software that enables effective study. There are more modern editions of that edition available in hardback on the internet such as the 1992 edition at https://www.amazon.com/Midrash-Rabbah-10-Vol-Set/dp/0900689382. I understand that Judaica Press (New York) may have acquired the rights from Soncino in the 1980s.

I recall that Yale University Press published a 13 volume "Yale Judaica Series" in the 1950s and while a number of those in the series concern the "Code of Maimonides", several which cover subjects of wider interest e.g., Volume XIII is in fact a two volume set on "The Midrash on Psalms" translated by William G. Braude (Yale University Press, 1959). I'm sure there's a lot more out there too! Keep well Paul

Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/896826#Comment_896826

While Faithlife may consider the interests of Messianic Jews to be a smaller niche market, the swing of biblical scholarship has been to expand its interaction with ancient Jewish resources well beyond beyond the DSS and the Talmud/Mishnah. So, hopefully, FL will be able to see that it is only logical that works that are so frequently cross-referenced (a search for "Pirqe, Pirke, Rabba" in my library produces 340 hits in 96 resources). It is also a logical development in relation to the earlier effort to produce an "Ancient Literature" dataset and corresponding feature in the PG.

And of course, Messianic Jews have a legitimate claim to make alongside the other groups that FL caters to.