NASB in Paragraph Format

Greg Pickle said:

Thank you for the explanation.

I haven't seen mentioned that the reason the one verse/one line format is so appealing is that it matches many of our hard-copy NASBs, so it's a seamless transition between digital and print for those of us dinosaurs who still carry a print Bible into the pulpit. It also better fits the type of study many of us primarily use Logos for - word-by-word, verse-by-verse exegesis, rather than sitting down to read large sections at a time. This is, no doubt, why some people chose the NASB at all to begin with. I still have a hard time preaching from my paragraph-format ESV when the need arises. 

In other words, it's not just resistance to change, but desire for a format that aligns most closely with our day-to-day work. 

I understand you're in a tough spot, but any efforts you could make to provide a natural line-by-line option that doesn't demand a visual filter would be tremendously appreciated!

The reason I used the NASB95 for study purposes was it's one verse per line format. I don't use it as a translation for reading so don't care for having a paragraph formatted version.

I acknowledge FL is between a rock and a hard place on this one in terms of satisfying both groups of users but...

I believe it would be wrong if we were forced to pay for another copy of this resource in the original one verse per line format when that is what we purchased in the first place. This was taken away from us as the default viewing option by a decision of FL employees - without enough thought of the implications IMHO. While I respect your concerns about the no longer having a digital version that matches your print version - and I believe FL has a responsibilty to correct this las they are the ones responible for the decision that broke this continuity, two wrongs don't make a right. So respectfully Willie your suggestion that you and any other user should have to pay a second time to get back what you paid for in the first place is wrong. I do not support it, but I do support your call for FL to  make right what they have broken.

Willie said:

However, I continue to believe the best and simplest solution is for Faithlife to allow customers to purchase the Lockman Foundation’s original verse formatted NASB or the current paragraph format as separate resources.  Purchasing the NASB’s verse formatted version would ensure that everything appears exactly as previously existed in Logos (default verse formatting, Copy Bible Verses style, and Print/Export documents). 

As a subscriber and ongoing customer (at least currently), a couple of notes....

This actually was a change that came out of nowhere. I was given no notice, and like others have been fiddling with settings trying to restore my NASB Bible. I have used the NASB 95 verse format since I first purchased Logos many years ago, and it is by far my preference for adding notes.

To me, after so many years of relying upon this for my preparation, I believe a "compromise" and "agreeable mediating position" by Logos would have been to add a visual filter to convert it to paragraph for those few who wanted it. Those who have been happy with the verse format shouldn't have to express their happiness to retain it.

I still don't know where this visual filter is...

I believe I am reasonable in being very disappointed in Logos. There are other excellent online Bible resources that are free. Honestly, it has been a struggle to decide whether to purchase my books paperback, or as I have as of late purchasing resources through Logos to read on screen. Since we can so easily lose control of what we have purchased, I think I have my answer for future purchases.

Kyle,

Thanks for the update.  Please see Kiyah’s comments below in which he explains very well how Faithlife could make two resources available at no additional charge (one default verse formatted and one default paragraph formatted) for anyone who owns the NASB.  This would completely satisfy both groups.

Kiyah said:

They could offer them as a set, kind of like the KJV with Apocrypha is actually two resources. They could have one NASB download that has 2 resources in it (NASB95 and NASB95 Paragraph Edition). Then everyone would have both editions if they own the NASB. This happened when I got the BHS SESB 2.0, I ended up with two resources that are different in terms of file format (.logos4 and .lbxlls). They've already created both resources so I wouldn't think it would be extra work.

I fear relying on a visual filter to address this problem will be unsuccessful because of the likely omission of several unique characteristics of the publisher’s NASB verse format which are not found in any other Bible.  In addition it will do nothing to restore the “fully formatted” verse styles which were removed from the Copy Bible Verses tool.  Finally, it will not fully restore the verse format capability that was lost with the Print/Export feature since that function will be based on the imperfect visual filter.

I have no doubt your work on the visual filter will benefit all other Bibles, but with the NASB, you have a better option (the publisher’s original verse format).   

Kiyah said:

She. 

I'm sorry Kiyah!!  Bad assumption on my part.

Thanks for sharing the great explanation and examples. 

Perhaps by Thursday he meant "Friday".  

[:)]

Thanks Mark, I am not running the beta at the moment. I look foward to seeing your feedback on the changes to the FL team.

Mark Smith said:

Those who are running the Logos Beta version will see an update addressing the visual filter today. I've started another thread with feedback about that update to keep it from cluttering up this thread.

Mark Smith said:

Those who are running the Logos Beta version will see an update addressing the visual filter today. I've started another thread with feedback about that update to keep it from cluttering up this thread.

Thanks Mark.

David Paul said:

I have been ignoring this thread since I first posted to it back in April, residing in my blissfully ignorant usage of L3 and my line-per-verse version of 95. I clicked on this thread just now and was horrified to hear what had happened to my preferred Bible in L7! Plain and simple, this is 

                !!!! FREAKING OUTRAGEOUS !!!!

and totally unacceptable! AS IT WAS, PLEASE.

Well gee Paul - that's just too bad isn't it?!!  Long term users like you and I have already invested heavily in this outfit so what we want is no longer important.  Only those who want the paragraph format are important now.  Do you want the verse numbers to outline the paragraph breaks instead of all being in bold?  Too bad - only those who want the paragraph format count now.  Do you want the chapter numbers at the head of the chapter breaks?  Too bad - you're not important to FaithLife now.  Do you want the poetical passages to stand out like they used to?  Too bad for you,  That's not what the paragraph users want.  You want to highlight a verse number?  Too bad...

I am so fed up with this organization that if I didn't have 10s of thousands of dollars tied up in it I'd be gone in a shot.

All I can suggest is that we continue to complain about it.  After all, that's what got to paragraph lovers what they wanted isn't it?!!!

Just be aware that when the 'My FL/Logos can do no wrong" lovers see our concerns they'll be out in force telling us what bad people we are for not toeing the line.

The problem is Dav that nothing was broken and overnight without thought of the consequences or regards to the needs of all users FL reacted to the advice of a couple of people who wanted paragraph format.  

These unique features of the NASB95 format, as described by Alex above are what set this translation's format apart from the rest of  the translations format's.  Back in the day we purchased the NASB library package for both the translation and the format of the translation. FL's actions and fixes so far show they don't get why they have some very upset customers on their hands. 

Real people paid for the format that the NASB95 used to display.  The fix is nowhere near what the original format offered. I think they have a right to voice their unhappiness with FL. 

Disciple of Christ,

Why can't you follow 1 Cor 13:4-7 instead of being the accuser without any facts to back them up. The church already has one accuser we don't need another.

4 Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, 5 does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, 6 does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

New American Standard Bible: 1995 update. (1995). (1 Co 13:4–7). La Habra, CA: The Lockman Foundation.

Bobby Terhune said:

The church already has one accuser we don't need another.

First of all, DOC is not accusing the church of anything at all. He is airing his grievances to a business that he thinks made a poor decision.

Secondly, comparing him to Satan for airing his complaints is just sad. So sad that it is beyond my comprehension.

David Thomas said:

I am just fatigued by the hyperbole of "Faithlife doesn't care about customers" or "Faithlife isn't listening to me"

David if you are fatigued then think about the customers over the years who are fatigued by all the negative response from fellow users who tell them as customers they shouldn't express their dissatisfaction. Its no wonder they feel no one is listening. Everyone is free to express their views, needs and concerns. 

No one has a right to tear down a fellow user because they disagree with them.

Disciple of Christ (doc) said:

The problem is Dav that nothing was broken and overnight without thought of the consequences or regards to the needs of all users FL reacted to the advice of a couple of people who wanted paragraph format.  

These unique features of the NASB95 format, as described by Alex above are what set this translation's format apart from the rest of  the translations format's.  Back in the day we purchased the NASB library package for both the translation and the format of the translation. FL's actions and fixes so far show they don't get why they have some very upset customers on their hands. 

Real people paid for the format that the NASB95 used to display.  The fix is nowhere near what the original format offered. I think they have a right to voice their unhappiness with FL. 

DOC,

Thank you for so clearly articulating the concerns of many of us.  The information you present reflects logical conclusions based on information available to date (actions and several brief statements from Faithlife).

The NASB’s accuracy is of course important but its unique verse format with its distinctive features is something no other Bible translation is able to offer.  It was this format which originally caused me to chose the NASB as my preferred Bible from a small group of other well respected translations.

Faithlife’s insistence on trying to resolve this issue through tweaks to a visual filter which are bound to disappoint have been puzzling and seem to support your conclusion that they either do not realize or have not taken the time to consider why many of us chose the verse formatted NASB in the first place and why we consider it to be such a special resource.  

Based on Faithlife’s preference for standardization, I suspect any further changes to the existing visual filter will be limited to those which can also be applied to the visual filter of other Bibles.  This will cause several unique characteristics of the NASB verse format to be omitted such its distinct verse numbering system (all verse numbers unbolded except for those which begin a paragraph).  Furthermore, this will do nothing to restore the other program functions that were lost which I’ve mentioned in previous posts.

Solution: Faithlife, please provide anyone who owns an NASB with two separate NASB resources at no additional charge (one default verse formatted and one default paragraph formatted). 

Personally, I would be glad to pay for the NASB95 resource in the original format.
Is there any chance that might be offered?

Thanks

Mike Henry Sr. said:

I would pay for the former format too.  I'm disappointed the version I already paid for is no longer in its original format. But if paying for a copy will stop the argument, I'd do it. It would be interesting to see how many of each they sell. :-)

I for one will not pay for another version, I would like the version I did pay for.

How do we do this?  And how do I change the copy bible verses format to have line-alignment so that the verse is outstanding from the word-wrap like it was before?