Visual FIlters and CSB

Hi,

I think I may have found a bug?

I open the CSB (Christian Standard Bible) and click on Visual Filters and move down to the 'Notes and Highlights' section. On other versions of the Bible it then lists the various note files for me to select. Unfortunately on this version it just shows one of my note files and I cannot therefore get my highlighting to show.

If I open the ESV and go to the same option I then get all five of my note files showing for me to select as I wish.

Any help would be appreciated.

Tony Dowden

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David Thomas

I think I may have found a bug?

I open the CSB (Christian Standard Bible) and click on Visual Filters and move down to the 'Notes and Highlights' section. On other versions of the Bible it then lists the various note files for me to select. Unfortunately on this version it just shows one of my note files and I cannot therefore get my highlighting to show.

If I open the ESV and go to the same option I then get all five of my note files showing for me to select as I wish.

Is this in OT or NT? CSB RI is currently only available for the NT. Has indexing finished? I had to reindex my NASB95PARA to get it to show some of my visual filters.

Anthony Dowden

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/918985#Comment_918985

Hi David,

Thanks for your reply. I have had the CSB a few months now and it is a full Bible, OT & NT. I don't understand what the RI is that you use.

My library is fully indexed and up to date. I purchased some resources in the past couple of days and the library updated and indexed as usual with no errors mentioned.

Tony

Anthony Dowden

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/918988#Comment_918988

Hi,

For further info.....

I have three Bibles open on screen - ESV, NIV & CSB. If I highlight a verse in the ESV it automatically highlights in the NIV as well, but NOT in the CSB.

Something is not right here but I am not sure whether it is me or the software?

Tony

David Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/918988#Comment_918988

I don't understand what the RI is that you use.

Are you talking about "Highlighting/notes" or "Visual Filters"?

The Reverse Interlinear is the underlying tagging that allows visual filters to cross from one translation to another. For example--you create a visual filter that finds a word in the ESV, the Reverse Interlinear syncs that filter with the underlying Greek or Hebrew Word, then in the NASB or NIV it displays the same English word that is connected to the underlying Greek or Hebrew Word. In the HCSB, the reverse Interlinear is only done for the New Testament as demonstrated below.

In the New Testament notice the word "came" in verse 1 - it is blue with a 3-sided box around it in all the translations that have a RI, but not in the CSB because there is no RI for the CSB.

Yet the yellow "note" marker DOES appear in all 5 translations because it is associated with the reference.

In the Old Testament, the word "came" only shows the blue in the two translations on the right because the RI has not been done for the Old testament in the HCSB, NIV84 or CSB.

David Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/918999#Comment_918999

If I highlight a verse in the ESV it automatically highlights in the NIV as well, but NOT in the CSB.

Also notice the "corresponding words" feature. in my pictures above there are some words that are highlighted in blue-showing the corresponding words in each of the translations that have an RI. In the translations where the word is not translated, or there is no RI, the blue highlighting does not appear.

David Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/918988#Comment_918988

My library is fully indexed and up to date. I purchased some resources in the past couple of days and the library updated and indexed as usual with no errors mentioned.

"Beloved" and I both had issues with visual filters in the NASB95PARA resource. Even though it fully downloaded and indexed with no errors mentioned, Andrew from Faithlife gave us instructions to reindex that one resource and it fixed our problems.

see here - http://community.logos.com/forums/p/147584/917209.aspx#917209

Anthony Dowden

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/919003#Comment_919003

Hi David,

thanks for that. I completely understand the Reverse Interlinear (just didn't associate RI with it).

However, that doesnt answer why when I highlight a full verse it doesn't show either. I thought that if I highlighted a complete verse it would show in all versions. I'm sure I picked that up from one of the tutorial videos.

Tony

Anthony Dowden

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/919005#Comment_919005

Hi David,

Im just off to bed but I will give that a try tomorrow after Church and let you know how I get on.

Im really blessed by the help I am getting from these forums.

Tony.

David Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/919006#Comment_919006

I thought that if I highlighted a complete verse it would show in all versions.

If you highlight a whole verse, then right-click to add the notation, you have to choose between "selection" the red circled, or "reference" the blue circle. if you attach the highlight to the "selection" it only attaches to the words you highlight, if you select "reference" then it attaches to the verse number, regardless of which translation you open (see the yellow sticky note icons earlier).

David Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/919006#Comment_919006

I thought that if I highlighted a complete verse it would show in all versions.

I think I figured out what you are seeing.

After attaching the highlight or note to the REFERENCE, you also need to click the 3-circle icon and make sure "Corresponding Notes/Highlights" are clicked on for the translation you are viewing AND make sure that the Highlighting pallete is also clicked on.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/918999#Comment_918999

If I highlight a verse in the ESV it automatically highlights in the NIV as well, but NOT in the CSB.

This depends on the feature Corresponding Notes and Highlights, which only works with Bibles that have reverse interlinears (RI's). ESV and NIV have RI's but your CSB (2017) may not. Also, "Corresponding Notes and Highlights" has to be selected in the Visual filter menu (you may not have this in your CSB). Otherwise notes and highlights are specific to the resource in which they were created.

This screen shot shows that the NIV has an RI:

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/919013#Comment_919013

After attaching the highlight or note to the REFERENCE

I'm not sure why you stress "attaching" to the "REFERENCE". Existing notes and highlights in one bible can be viewed via the "Corresponding..." feature in the other, provided both bibles have RI's.

AND make sure that the Highlighting pallete is also clicked on.

That is actually a Note file with default name coming from the palette. Highlights and notes can share the same file.

David Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/919019#Comment_919019

AND make sure that the Highlighting pallete is also clicked on.

That is actually a Note file with default name coming from the palette. Highlights and notes can share the same file.

But in this example I may have Emphasis Markup Highlights in my NASB but they aren't going to show up in my NIV unless I click on that palette. I may have Intertextuality highlights in my ESV, but they aren't going to show up in my NIV unless I click on that palette. I may have Inductive/Precept highlights in my HCSB (NT), but they aren't going to show up in my NIV unless I click on that palette.

David Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/919019#Comment_919019

edited when I noticed the CSB does have an NT RI

The Corresponding Notes is a newer feature, and I still recalled the old days when the only way to get highlights in multiple translations was to attach to a reference.

David Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/919014#Comment_919014

This screen shot shows that the NIV has an RI:

but that icon appears in the CSB as well and if you are working in the OLD testament and see the icon, but forget that the CSB only has a NT RI, a newer user could wonder why it doesn't work.

Anthony Dowden

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/919038#Comment_919038

Hi Brothers,

Thank you so much for all your comments which have helped me see what is happening here.

Firstly, I didn't realise that when I used the highlighting tool it didn't work on all versions, only interlinears. I thought it was only if you highlighted parts of a verse that it would only work on interlinears.

Secondly, I agree that the CSB is indeed misleading in that only the NT is interlinear. I would have thought that this could be made more clear in some form or other. Perhaps a warning on the Home Page if you are using that version. You could then hide the message if you didn't want it to show anymore. Just a thought!

So as I understand it if I want to highlight a verse that will show in ALL versions I will have to select the reference and attach a blank note! That seems a bit odd to me. I would have thought that a whole verse highlighted would go through to all versions - after all there does not need to be any interlinear function for this to work. Indeed it does that in other software, like Olive Tree for instance. Perhaps this is something I should enter into any suggestions.

Anyway, once again thank you for all your interesting and helpful comments.

Tony

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/919056#Comment_919056

Firstly, I didn't realise that when I used the highlighting tool it didn't work on all versions, only interlinears. I thought it was only if you highlighted parts of a verse that it would only work on interlinears.

Just to clarify this - highlighting works on all versions. The functionality for which you need reverse interlinears (or original language resources) is if you want to use the Corresponding Notes and Highlights capability to cause highlights in one resource to appear in the corresponding place in another.

So as I understand it if I want to highlight a verse that will show in ALL versions I will have to select the reference and attach a blank note!

Technically this isn't creating a highlight - a highlight works on a selection of text and results in some form of highlight / emphasis being shown. When creating a note by reference it doesn't result in a highlight it just results in an icon at the beginning of the verse with this icon appearing in all versified resources.

That seems a bit odd to me. I would have thought that a whole verse highlighted would go through to all versions - after all there does not need to be any interlinear function for this to work.

Conceptually the problem is that you are highlighting a set of words in our translation and there may be different words in others. The underlying use of the reverse interlinears is to allow corresponding words to be highlighted.

Hopefully this helps clarify some things - although I appreciate it doesn't affect the issue you are struggling with!

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/919037#Comment_919037

I still recalled the old days when the only way to get highlights in multiple translations was to attach to a reference.

That never worked. You could/can attach a note to a reference, but not a highlight. Those were (and remain) notes attached "by selection." The "corresponding notes" feature works by taking the selection which is highlighted, utilizing a combination of the underlying reverse interlinear and reference, and applying the highlight to the appropriate place in another translation.

David Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/919064#Comment_919064

That never worked. You could/can attach a note to a reference, but not a highlight.

Forgive my imprecision!

Notes/highlights/mark-ups/annotations/sympathetic/corresponding have been a source of anxiety for a long time:

I now regret trying to help a brother yesterday afternoon. In the future maybe it would be best for me to just read the Forums and refrain from helping a newer user.

But I would have to admit that the fact that every "Highlight" gets saved in a "Note" file can lead to easy confusion of terms.

I'm done!

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/919095#Comment_919095

But I would have to admit that the fact that every "Highlight" gets saved in a "Note" file can lead to easy confusion of terms.

Imagine the confusion when that was introduced a few years ago! If you choose "Most recent note file" highlights will go to the file you last used; which could have been used for your Notes. In practice I use this only for highlighting from my (user-created) palette. So if I see a 'Note' file with a Logos palette name it is usually a mistake and the file is deleted!

Faithlife use Annotation in the Locator bar, and it will find both notes and highlights ---> I'm sure you know that the dictionary definition is "notes"!

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/919095#Comment_919095

I now regret trying to help a brother yesterday afternoon. In the future maybe it would be best for me to just read the Forums and refrain from helping a newer user...

I'm done!

I'm confused. Are you offended at something? Why would you regret trying to help? Your contributions are appreciated! My comment was just intended to clarify that highlights (as highlights) have never been visible in multiple resources. Even a number of fellow MVP's have been confused and suggested that users create the highlight note to the reference... but that has never been possible. A highlight, within the FL ecosphere, is always a note of "selection." You "select" the paragraphs, sentences, clauses, words, or even single characters (!) you want to be highlighted. To have those highlights appear in any other resource (bible) is nonsensical (based on operations) because those characters appear only in that one resource... else it would be the same resource and what would be the point of the discussion!

The desire to have highlights in multiple translations isn't an unreasonable one, but it isn't a simple problem to address. The corresponding notes & highlights feature isn't perfect, but it is a good attempt at trying to help meet the desires of many users

I agree that the terminology is confusing. One of the greatest weakness FL has is in nomenclature. Don't get me started on their (mis)use of the terms "layout" and "hidden resource!"

David Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/919115#Comment_919115

I'm confused. Are you offended at something?

Anthony (the original poster) and I were getting very close to identifying his problem to the point that Anthony came back and said that Dave Hooten's and my contributions answered his question. Then 2 more MVPs jumped into the thread and did not affirm a single thing that I had said, but only pointed out where I was wrong.--very demotivating!!

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/919212#Comment_919212

did not affirm a single thing that I had said, but only pointed out where I was wrong.--very demotivating!!

I can see your perspective; my apologies. Despite my high post count, I don't (and can't!) read every post. Frequently I open to the newest posts to see where the conversation has gone and to see if there are any outstanding questions to be answered.

The forums are meant to be a place where users can get help from fellow users. We work together. I didn't comment on anything else I read because I didn't have anything to add. I did comment on your one point because it needed to be corrected. No offense was meant. When I misspeak (which is often enough [:P]), I need others to "give an assist," just as I did for you.

David Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/919224#Comment_919224

I can see your perspective; my apologies

apology accepted. I value the time you volunteer to help the Logos community.

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/919212#Comment_919212

Hi David

Then 2 more MVPs jumped into the thread and did not affirm a single thing that I had said, but only pointed out where I was wrong.--very demotivating!!

And if anything I wrote contributed to this I am very sorry. That wasn't my intention

Apologies, Graham

David Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/919240#Comment_919240

And if anything I wrote contributed to this I am very sorry. That wasn't my intention

Apology accepted. I realize nobody was trying to be harsh.

It just piled on like the little league baseball player who just hit the ball and got to first base successfully, but all the Fans and coaches were yelling "if you had done it this way it could have been a double or triple!!" It was a good lesson for me in my coaching of others. Do I motivate or discourage when I express ways of improvement?