Remove Lexham English Bible from mobile App
I do not understand why FaithLife or Logos chose to imbed the Lexham English Bible into the mobile App, but I personally find it very annoying ! I manually remove every time I start the App. I did not down load it and I not want it in my library ! This is very close to Proselytizing on the part of FaithLife/Logos, in I opinion. There are many Bible translations/versions available for down load. Please keep your hands off MY Library !
Doug Maze
LCMS
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That's one reason I use Noet. I got tired of their forced resource downloads. I can handle a forced ancient book by somebody I can't remember.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I disagree with that business model. That decision should be left to the subcriber/end-user. Why should I be inconvienced to remove a Bible resource I do not want, from MY library, every time start the App ? It should be Offered to people, and let them decide if they want the particular Bible resource or not. What I choose to store in library, for my digital Scriptural studies, is not up to FS ! The fact that FS would chose to use their own translation, reinforces my resolve not be appogetic for using the term "Proselytizing".
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Unless this has changed at some point, we have been told that to function correctly, a bible needs to be installed. It is integrated into the app itself. For many reasons, including financial, they have chosen to use their own translation.
If you prefer not to have it downloaded, you could always do what Denise suggests and use NOET instead for a pure library app.
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Dose not the App already come with the KJV installed ? I use the ESV/LSB, with the NIV (older version) for cross reference. I get greatly incensed when I feel corporations/groups are craming their Theology down-my-throat, in the name of "better business, or community harmony".
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Dose not the App already come with the KJV installed ?
The app has online access to a number of resources, including (I believe) the KJV.
I use the ESV/LSB, with the NIV (older version) for cross reference. I get greatly incensed when I feel corporations/groups are craming their Theology down-my-throat, in the name of "better business, or community harmony".
If it defaulted to any of the above, it would be an identical situation to what you are complaining about now.
FWIW - I sent an email to a FL employee to seek clarification. It may be that my info is outdated. You are saying that when you delete the resource it continues to download again? If the resource is REQUIRED to function, the ability to delete it should be removed. It is possible that you are simply experiencing a bug, or some other quirk. I know, for example, that some people who have downloaded X resources in the past have had troubles with X resources wanting to continue to download after no longer desired.
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not be appogetic for using the term "Proselytizing".
My impression is that horse left the barn, with Logos4. I use 3 other commercial Bible software platforms, and don't see that same blase' approach in them (they're considerably more respectful to religious sensitivities). I'm an advocate of denomination-specific editions (in Logos) even though I don't share denominational beliefs. Which by and large eliminates the forced royalty-free Faithlife stuff.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Quite possibly what I described a deleting was not. I select the resource, click "remove", the resource "dims" in my library, and I continue with my Scipture study or Bible class prep. When I shut down/restart the App, it is reinstalled. I verified via telephone with FL CS, that the Lexham English Bible is in fact part of s/w architecture for the current mobile App. I posted a suggestion in line with this post on the appropriate FS website, that was "denied" with two hours, after recieving 1 vote (and comments closed). Silence the Heritic. Your comment regarding defaulting to any other Bible translation is exactly my point ! The performance of FL s/w should not be dependant on Any Bible translation. I would like some one from FS to explain how a Bible resource, that I refuse to use (even if it is in my library), impacts the overall performance of the App ? That does not make sence.
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Kevin - from Faithlife - commented on this at https://community.logos.com/forums/p/75817/530924.aspx#530924
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Thanks for background on this, Graham. Sorry I did not research the issue enough. If I follow the logic, if I have the ESV set as my "preferred" Bible, why does FL mandate that I keep the LEB in my library ? Could they not advise/warn users that the mobile App will cease to function if they attempt to remove their "preferred" Bible resource, and will remain so until a new "preferred" Bible is dedicated by the user ? My fundamental issue is not that FL s/w requires a "perferred" Bible to function properly, but that the choice of which Bible translation/version should be left up to subcriber/end-user, not FL.
Regards-
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If the resource is REQUIRED to function, the ability to delete it should be removed.
We're working to implement this. We do actually remove the LEB when you select that-- but when you launch the app again the app "remembers" that you should have it and then adds it to your library. I know that's confusing, and we'll fix that eventually.
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Why not allow the end-user decide which Bible resource should be their "preferred" Bible, for the FLs/w to function properly ? Why must FL mandate the LEB be present in my library, if I have no use for it ? Seems very draconian.
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Thankful for FL developers working on fixing confusion from beta Logos mobile app "remembering" LEB download when user has previously removed LEB (and not checked for download in Logos 7.9 library).
Apologies since personally like reading LEB along with my preferred Bible and others. Hence, am Thankful for LEB default for those who have not yet chosen and downloaded their "preferred" Bible. Speculating LEB does not incur a royalty for use in free FL mobile app. Also LEB can be modified/enhanced as desired since does not need approval from another publisher before proceeding with prototype.
Thankful for LEB media option to download Read Aloud files for offline use (not downloaded by default).
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Thanks for joining the discussion. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and I am glad you find the LEB a useful tool in your Scriptural endeavors. I respectfully, have a different view. Not only do I not personally care for the language format of the LEB, there are many other translations/versions for download, and made user's "preferred". That individual choice is were I get chafed. I am advocating that the subcriber/end-user have control over which Bible resources are in thier library, as long as one is designated "preferred", to comply with the FL s/w requirements. But for FL to mandate a Bible from Lexham Publishing (either a subsidiary or corporate partner of FL), makes me uncomfortable, to be polite. To offer it is one thing, to force upon subscribers, is quite another..
Regards-
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But for FL to mandate a Bible from Lexham Publishing (either a subsidiary or corporate partner of FL), makes me uncomfortable, to be polite.
I, on the other hand, prefer to have Faithlife tie into their own products rather than products with denominational histories and biases. It allows them to be consistent throughout all their tools as they can make corrections when necessary. Any other translation as the base for the driving reverse interlinear/original text results in inconsistencies -sometimes subtle, sometimes appearing as egragious errors.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Yes... I am glad to have LEB in
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That still does not satisfy root question: If I as a subscriber, have installed a Bible resource and it is configured as "preferred" (my choice), what is the need for the LEB ? Second, after reading the Lexham Press web-page (including their "Mission Statement"), I find it hard to believe that the LEB is free from any "denominational histories and biasis", that may be found in other Bible translations. My purpose in starting this thread was not to bash the LEB in any way, shape, or form. The choice of which Bible translation(s) one uses in their intimate realtionship with God's Holy Word is a deeply personal one. That is why I keep going back to my main point: If I personally chose not use the LEB (for what ever reason) why does FL mandate I keep in my libtary ? Are they at some point going dictate that the LEB become my "preferred" Bible ? I conceded the point that FL needs some common s/w thread or link among the "community", however, if FL is going to mandate the installation (and use ?) of Lexham Press products, that is starting down a slippery slope. I await clairification on my ?'s before commenting further.
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But for FL to mandate a Bible from Lexham Publishing (either a subsidiary or corporate partner of FL), makes me uncomfortable, to be polite.
I, on the other hand, prefer to have Faithlife tie into their own products rather than products with denominational histories and biases. It allows them to be consistent throughout all their tools as they can make corrections when necessary. Any other translation as the base for the driving reverse interlinear/original text results in inconsistencies -sometimes subtle, sometimes appearing as egragious errors.
I think MJ has hit the nail on the head here Doug. If an 'english worded' translation has to be used to drive the software connections back to the 'original' texts then it is better that it be a standard text that can be updated as errors are found. It would appear that the app requires this text and even if it were hidden from view it would still be incorporated into the underlying software.
I would have thought that having access to this text, however faulty, would be preferable to having some sort of black box operation that could not be inspected. There is, of course, no need to ever consult the text if you find it offensive but then you might also be wary of the trusting the research tools it drives.
tootle pip
Mike
How to get logs and post them.(now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs) Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
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Edit: Deleted post as I misread the post I was quoting.
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I never once implied that I find the text of the LEB to be "offensive". And I take issue with being labeled paranoid, even so ever subtly. Obviously, like most other discussion sites, participats jump in without reading the posts that make up the entire thread. At least I pray that is the reason for the misintrepetation of some of the responders here. The other explanation (and one that greatly saddens me) is the lack of tolerance here at FL, toward a divergant view concerning a Bible translation ! And I never said any negative about the LEB--Only that I chose not to use it. It appears that attitude on my part struck a raw nerve. What is FL's ultimate position here ? Unless a user gets in "Lock-Step" with all other FL subscribers, they are labeled "Heretic" ? Is there no tolerance at FL for individual liberty in choosing which Bible to use (without fear of excoriation) ? Since when did LEB become the English language "Gold-Standard" in Bible translations, against which all others should be judged ? Because I chose to a Bible translation produced by a publishing house that is not Lexham, puts me at odds with the FL Saff (and many users), to me is troublIng. Having Scriptural reasources in a digital, searchable, format is Great ! But not to the extent of surrending Bible translations that Scripturally are "Rock" of our Church.
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Daniel posted above that it's a bug that's planned to be fixed
I think you misunderstand both Daniel and Doug:
- Daniel is saying that the ability to remove a required resource is a "bug" which needs to be fixed.
- Even if the ability is granted to remove the resource from downloads, Doug will still not be happy because the resource will still be in his library (albeit "in the cloud."). Users can "hide" chosen resources, but that does not apply to the "free to use" resources on mobile.
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Is there no tolerance at FL for individual liberty in choosing which Bible to use (without fear of excoriation) ?
Your ability to chose the translation(s) you want to use has never been in question. You can indeed choose whichever translation you want. The issue is that you don't want it in your library, and you feel that it simply being in your library will somehow lead you astray (your word "proselytize").
I don't understand your position, but I allow your right to hold it.
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Daniel is saying that the ability to remove a required resource is a "bug" which needs to be fixed.
You're right; it looks like I did misread what he was saying would be fixed. Thanks for the correction.
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I never once implied that I find the text of the LEB to be "offensive". And I take issue with being labeled paranoid, even so ever subtly. Obviously, like most other discussion sites, participats jump in without reading the posts that make up the entire thread. At least I pray that is the reason for the misintrepetation of some of the responders here. The other explanation (and one that greatly saddens me) is the lack of tolerance here at FL, toward a divergant view concerning a Bible translation ! And I never said any negative about the LEB--Only that I chose not to use it. It appears that attitude on my part struck a raw nerve. What is FL's ultimate position here ? Unless a user gets in "Lock-Step" with all other FL subscribers, they are labeled "Heretic" ? Is there no tolerance at FL for individual liberty in choosing which Bible to use (without fear of excoriation) ? Since when did LEB become the English language "Gold-Standard" in Bible translations, against which all others should be judged ? Because I chose to a Bible translation produced by a publishing house that is not Lexham, puts me at odds with the FL Saff (and many users), to me is troublIng. Having Scriptural reasources in a digital, searchable, format is Great ! But not to the extent of surrending Bible translations that Scripturally are "Rock" of our Church.
Doug
I assume that the above reply was meant to be addressed to me.
I am sorry that you feel the word 'offensive' misinterpreted your standpoint. It seemed to me the logical interpretation of a view that a book is so disliked that it is insufficient to allow it to remain unopened but that it must be removed from the library. Is that even possible in the Logos environment? As I understand it even hidden books are not removed from our ownership and remain retrievable at any point.
I may have jumped in but I can assure you that I have been following this thread since the first post.
I have many books in my library whose standpoints and views I disagree with. I keep them incase somebody quotes them to me as 'gospel' and I need to dispute the fact. Generally I don't read them or use them for reference but even with their (in my opinion) objectionable bias they are useful in some cases to help understand where others are coming from.
However the main point of my contribution was that I thought (perhaps mistakenly) that somehow the Lexham Bible was integrated into the workings of the faithlife app and, if that was indeed the case, then there would be other facets of the software that you might decide not to trust.
I will follow the rest of this thread with interest. I am sorry if my contribution caused upset. That wasn't my intention.
tootle pip
Mike
How to get logs and post them.(now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs) Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
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