Introducing Faithlife Connect
Comments
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I'm sorry this is all my fault. I gave them the idea:
http://community.logos.com/forums/p/106870/740507.aspx#740507
Although what they've actually done is rather worse.
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Dave Thawley said:
To Chris. Hand in there lol. You have been given a lemon to sell as we say in the UK. You are right in that the e-mail I received does take any sting out of this and hopefully you guys can sort out double charging us for books etc. I personally think Faithlife need to seriously consider what they want to achieve. if it is to make money then perhaps they should sell up another type of business which will give them a revenue. At the end of the day Faithlife are their customers and what attracted me (and a lot of people) is your customer focus. once you focus on your own bank book and not us you will lose us. i don't want to be "lost". Please try and supply what we need rather than stuff we don't need but you think will make you money. In the long run it wont.
Thanks for the encouragement Dave, I'm glad you received the email, and that it helped some. We'll continue to listen to feedback and make adjustments like we always do, and focus on customer needs and delivering as much value as we possibly can.
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Deleted. Too quick to state my frustration.
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What about the periodic (6-week) updates to Logos? Will those who do not subscribe lose those? Or will all Logos users, regardless of their subscription status, get what are currently termed "Logos Now only" updates?
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Chris duMond said:
Minimally, all active Logos Now subscribers will have access to Logos Now benefits until November 12, 2018.
Thanks very much, Chris and FL!
Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!
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Sean said:
I'm sorry this is all my fault. I gave them the idea:
http://community.logos.com/forums/p/106870/740507.aspx#740507
This actually introduced some levity for me. I was feeling stressed and really needed to laugh. Thanks, Sean [;)]
Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!
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Here's why asking questions and getting answers is a waste of time and ultimately doesn't matter: Whatever the offer is now, whatever the email says, whatever the answers are, they WILL change within the next year or two. LogosNow was a great deal when it came out and it's gotten worse and worse over time. I'm not going to pay twice as much for the same or less than what I was receiving through LogosNow. And I have no desire to become a book renter who can then have the rental fees get raised and raised and raised. If you want more of my money, here's a novel idea: Publish more books from the Pre-Pub que and the Suggestions lists. And then I'll buy more books and libraries because you'll be giving me what I want and what I use Logos for. All of the rest of the never-ending offers and changes simply take you away from your core business and frustrates those of us who use Logos and want to continue to do so. I think it's finally time to break down and purchase a competitor's product (which I've never done before). P.S. I've been using Logos exclusively since 1995 when I was an undergrad Bible student. I LOVE Logos. But not only have you continued to move away from your core customers, your communication is as bad as any I've ever seen from any organization. As believers, we out to be better than the world and we ought to treat one another the way we want to be treated. Basic, clear, up-front communication would be a good start. It makes perfect sense to expand the business and the customer base over time, but not at the expense of your core customer base. Logos should be the priority, and developing other related businesses should be secondary. The way things are constantly haphazardly released, changed, discontinued, and repeated makes us question whether there's any strategic thinking/planning going on at FaithLife, or if it's just keep throwing ideas up on the wall and hope one of them sticks. Sorry to be so harsh and negative, I try really hard to be a fan and supporter, but I'm done.
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Matthew said:
Basic, clear, up-front communication would be a good start.
To be fair, I think we inadvertently stumbled on the new web site before the forum post and email communication went out.
Matthew said:As believers, we out to be better than the world and we ought to treat one another the way we want to be treated.
In general, that works both ways. (Not singling you or anyone else out, but) we should treat FL the way we want them to treat us.
I think we're all guilty of not being as loving or kind or compassionate or merciful as we should be.
Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!
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Logos Now 2.0 .. the dead become dead-er.
Basically a SUPER EXPENSIVE LN with LESS FEATURES that people don't care.
Seriously, you guys can take Faithlife TV away and still not worth it. Charging for faithlifeTV is bad because the contents are bad and old, YouTube is 100% filled with HIGHER QUALITY contents (but you can't say that with NETFLIX or AMZ PRIME, because they DO have quality CONTENTS) There's no way in the right mind people who knows what they're doing would NOT pay that much for Faithlife TV. Let alone pay extra for faithlifeTV PLUS... SMH.
I know I'm NOT resubscribing, unless they fix the pricing.
Getting GREEDY here Logos... careful...
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If they dare to manipulate the price like this then they should be ready to take the criticisms.
Stop defending a business cooperate. You defend the poor. Logos is NOT POOR, you are POOR-ER. You are the poor.
Don't get them mixed up people.
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PetahChristian said:
To be fair, I think we inadvertently stumbled on the new web site before the forum post and email communication went out.
I know almost nothing about computers, but is it not possible for FL to perfect their new web pages in-house, then close-to-simultaneously make the pages live + have Chris publish the prewritten announcement??
Its their job to manage their info flow; so, my contention is that our inadvertent stumble is their mistake.
Its blatantly obvious that their emails should have been all readied b4 they went live.
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So, let me get this straight. Logos Now was put forward to us from Bob as the thing to get for base package owners. Now, you are telling me I am going to have to subscribe for resources I already own and pay more? Well, maybe not more I will have to wait to get the email you say is coming. That email should have already arrived.
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Levi Durfey said:
Bingo...I would be happy if they made a "features" level that didn't have any books or courses and cost $8.25/mo ($99/year).
That is what I am after - definitely don't want Cloud...
Pastor Glenn Crouch
St Paul's Lutheran Church
Kalgoorlie-Boulder, Western Australia0 -
I wonder if they will consider just letting Logos Now be an option as features only or give a discount from the price because like many others I own pretty much all the resources in the "cloud library"
Keith Pang, PhD Check out my blog @ https://keithkpang.wixsite.com/magnifyingjesus
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Well, gee. Now just gets better, and better. They promised, and delivered, no?
I remember the discussion 2 years ago, that if you get off the Now train, your features are gone. Hopefully you made it up on discounts.
Luckily, you have a choice to buy new more expensive Connect tickets to stay on the train (digging yourself deeper), or consider the ownership model. I'd bet the crossgrade price will go up a bunch, this fall. Bet.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Dynamic pricing should be a consideration...and frankly, I am a bit surprised at this change.
I see that FL is embracing the subscription model. I have Amazon, Netflix and YouTube TV. So I see it's value. My problem is that price must have value in order for it to be worth paying. For me, I don't see the added value when I get LESS content with Faithlife Connect for the same price I paid with Logos NOW. Of course, there is Faithlife TV and some courses. But for me, the real value was in the software engine and in the deals for the books.
If they take dynamic pricing out when you purchase through Faithlife Connect, then I think this deal is worse than Logos Now...
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/jimerwin/ - a postmodern pastor in a digital world
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Chris duMond said:PetahChristian said:
Logos Now gave us 10% off libraries and 25% off feature set purchases. Have those benefits disappeared?
No.
Hi Chris,
Do you mind elaborating on this? Do we continue to get these discounts in Faithlife Connect or only for the remainder of our Logos Now subscription?
Armin
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Keith Pang said:
I wonder if they will consider just letting Logos Now be an option as features only or give a discount from the price because like many others I own pretty much all the resources in the "cloud library"
Me too. I subscribed to LN for the product features. I own most of the cloud books and don’t see the point of paying $240/yr just to keep up with the product. Cutting the features of $100 or so a year level seems ill advised for me. I’m sure I’ll get the usual calls from the sales department Logos 8 upgrades, but it seems Logos/Faithlife is heading off in a pricey subscription direction. I certainly don’t plan to use Faithlife Connect as it’s currently structured and it casts doubt on significant investment in new resources in future Logos editions. Maybe Logos will rethink how they support those users committed to the ownership model, since this turn doesn’t seem fitted for those who already have significant owned resources.
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Armin said:
Do you mind elaborating on this? Do we continue to get these discounts in Faithlife Connect or only for the remainder of our Logos Now subscription?
Chris shared that there will also be discounts in Faithlife Connect, but the L8 details haven't been worked out yet.
Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!
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Can someone tell me how "Logos Now" is differnet from the new "Faithlife Basic"..........will I loose any datasets? I don't care about these new plans. I just want to make sure nothing changes for me from Logos Now.
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I purchased Logos Now primarily for full access to the Logos 7 features. I had no need for the public domain free books or Faithlife TV subscription (since it doesn't come with Mobile Ed). Yet, I felt the previous price was affordable.
Faithlife Connect (Starter) offers less for less. Unfortunately, I'm going to have to pay double ($20/mth) to get the full Bible study toolset.
I now feel that I would've been better off sticking to the ownership model (i.e. purchasing the Logos feature sets). This is a somewhat disappointing maneuver by FL.
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Mike Tourangeau said:
Can someone tell me how "Logos Now" is differnet from the new "Faithlife Basic"..........will I loose any datasets? I don't care about these new plans. I just want to make sure nothing changes for me from Logos Now.
What is the date on which your Logos Now subscription ends?
You'll lose some of your datasets either on 12 Nov or on the date on which your LN subscription ends (whichever is later). See what's offered in Starter: https://logoscloud.com/products/138567/logos-cloud-starter
If you want to maintain your current sets (after the date specified above), you'll have to upgrade to https://logoscloud.com/products/138568/logos-cloud-essentials.
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I figured it was only a matter of time before the initial $89.99 annual subscription for LN increased, but I didn’t anticipate how quickly it would happen. All is not lost though. The way I see it, I have spent $189.99 for two years on LN that will get me covered through November 2018. The announcement email states we will be getting a $200 coupon. So I can use the coupon, purchase the full feature set, cancel the subscription service, and then it will be like Faithlife gave me $10 to try LN for 2 years.
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Bryce Hufford said:
I figured it was only a matter of time before the initial $89.99 annual subscription for LN increased, but I didn’t anticipate how quickly it would happen. All is not lost though. The way I see it, I have spent $189.99 for two years on LN that will get me covered through November 2018. The announcement email states we will be getting a $200 coupon. So I can use the coupon, purchase the full feature set, cancel the subscription service, and then it will be like Faithlife gave me $10 to try LN for 2 years.
$200 coupon? I guess it's based on the number of years of subscription you've purchased from LN. Mine reads:
"We’re not quite ready to announce a release date for Logos 8, but when it comes, you’ll save $100."
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Joshua Tan said:Mike Tourangeau said:
Can someone tell me how "Logos Now" is differnet from the new "Faithlife Basic"..........will I loose any datasets? I don't care about these new plans. I just want to make sure nothing changes for me from Logos Now.
What is the date on which your Logos Now subscription ends?
You'll lose some of your datasets either on 12 Nov or on the date on which your LN subscription ends (whichever is later). See what's offered in Starter: https://logoscloud.com/products/138567/logos-cloud-starter
If you want to maintain your current sets (after the date specified above), you'll have to upgrade to https://logoscloud.com/products/138568/logos-cloud-essentials.
Thanks, I just canceled my "auto-renew" I don't think I want to continue down this road with FL. When Logos Now first came out it was great but I think they over sell and then have to walk it back. (?)
I am just going to go with the ownership model....it doesn't seem FL can be trusted to maintain a course for long
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I don't understand why they havent continued Logos Now along with this new thing. At least they would retain old customers and the new thing can pick up new ones. I for one have never looked at Faithlife TV. I am sure it's great, it's just not something I am interested in.
As it is now, I will not renew and definetly not get on board with any other subscriptions they offer. They will just change them a couple of years in.......
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Joshua Tan said:Bryce Hufford said:
I figured it was only a matter of time before the initial $89.99 annual subscription for LN increased, but I didn’t anticipate how quickly it would happen. All is not lost though. The way I see it, I have spent $189.99 for two years on LN that will get me covered through November 2018. The announcement email states we will be getting a $200 coupon. So I can use the coupon, purchase the full feature set, cancel the subscription service, and then it will be like Faithlife gave me $10 to try LN for 2 years.
$200 coupon? I guess it's based on the number of years of subscription you've purchased from LN. Mine reads:
"We’re not quite ready to announce a release date for Logos 8, but when it comes, you’ll save $100."
As Chris mentioned, "sharing emails with anyone would not be helpful, as it's specific to each customer."
Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!
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Really can't believe after supporting LN since day one that the starter doesn't include the free book coupon (Could have grandfathered in original LN subscribers). Only really had LN for the extra features needing an LN subscription but guess this isn't needed with connect now? Already am also good on resources and the cloud part has nothing for me, so as long as I don't need this connect to enable any features I have (I bought the expanded feature set earlier last year) then I will just cancel the recurring subscription. So to confirm by cancelling I wouldn't be losing anything that used to require an LN subscription (for example is there anything under the "Tools" ribbon I would not have access to)?
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Guys,
I got logos now so I could use all of the tools, particularly lemma in passage and the interlinears it has which are wonderful.
Am I correct that I can purchase logos 8 and have all of the goodies/tools... and own them.... and use my discount certificate (200)....???? if so, come on guys.
Its ok for Faithlife to treat us like apple or times warner or verizon ... Faithlife is not your church and Bob is not your pastor. If he were then it is a different matter.
I was sold logos now with all sorts of promises as I am sure you all were... let's give Faithlife a chance to keep them...
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Rob Lambert said:
Am I correct that I can purchase logos 8 and have all of the goodies/tools... and own them.... and use my discount certificate (200)....????
There may end up being a few small things that just don't make sense outside of a subscription, but for the most part just about everything should be available as a perpetual license in Logos 8.
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Dustin Pearson said:
Really can't believe after supporting LN since day one that the starter doesn't include the free book coupon (Could have grandfathered in original LN subscribers).
Thanks for the feedback. We'll reconsider this.
Dustin Pearson said:So to confirm by cancelling I wouldn't be losing anything that used to require an LN subscription (for example is there anything under the "Tools" ribbon I would not have access to)?
You can see the differences between the Logos 7 Extended Feature Set and the Logos Cloud Feature Set in this comparison chart. Most of these items missing from the Logos 7 Extended Feature Set will be added to Logos 8.
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If people are getting different tiers of discounts, can I ask what the tiers are? I’ve been a subscriber since January 2016 and got $100. I did have 9 days where I allowed to cover to lapse last month as I couldn’t afford renewal till the end of the month, and I’m trying to work out if that 9 day delay cost me $100...
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James McAdams said:
If people are getting different tiers of discounts, can I ask what the tiers are? I’ve been a subscriber since January 2016 and got $100. I did have 9 days where I allowed to cover to lapse last month as I couldn’t afford renewal till the end of the month, and I’m trying to work out if that 9 day delay cost me $100...
“Cost me” would be the wrong word - i seems like a goodwill gesture to make up for the sad announcement, rather than something I’m entitled to - but you know what I mean.
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Faithlife you have totally lost the plot if you think i am going to pay twice as much to get access to less, particularly when I have no need for cloud at all when I would already own everything in cloud. I am not paying to rent something I already own on top of getting access to less. This decision is even more woeful than the one when you left it up to a junior employee to announce you were looking at introducing a dating service - The name Faithlife Connect in fact sounds like a dating service. There is nothing exciting about this program. I am still in shock that you came up with this and thought as customers we would be excited about it in anyway shape or form.
You have just stabbed in the back your long term loyal customers who have supported you over many years and built up large libraries in the process of supporting this business. Please reconsider this decision and give those who were happy to support the ongoing development of the software through that means the option to continue to do so, some of us simply do not want to pay to rent books we already own but do want to support ongoing development of the software.
This has to be an early April fools joke because I still cannot believe you think you are doing something that is of benefit to your loyal customers.
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Disciple of Christ (doc) said:
to announce you were looking at introducing a dating service - The name Faithlife Connect in fact sounds like a dating service.
I hope Faithlife will reconsider, I don’t think many are on board with this decision thus far. At least this post made me literally laugh out loud because it does sound like a dating service 😂😂😂😂😂
Keith Pang, PhD Check out my blog @ https://keithkpang.wixsite.com/magnifyingjesus
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Keith Pang said:Disciple of Christ (doc) said:
to announce you were looking at introducing a dating service - The name Faithlife Connect in fact sounds like a dating service.
I hope Faithlife will reconsider, I don’t think many are on board with this decision thus far. At least this post made me literally laugh out loud because it does sound like a dating service 😂😂😂😂😂
[Y] Agreed. This gave me my first smile over this whole ordeal.
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Yes, please. I have too many books/resources as it is. I don't want/need more. I like LN for the features and keeping up to date with the next update rather than having to learn it all at once.Levi Durfey said:PetahChristian said:Please reconsider offering LN separately from Faithlife Connect. We really don't care to pay extra to rent books, courses, and TV. Thanks!
exactly my thoughts.
From the looks of just this forum, it seems people aren't on board with it, but this could possibly due to confusion about the program (seemed completely out of the blue for such a massive change..? and with the added tiers which adds another level of confusion),
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Joshua Tan said:
I now feel that I would've been better off sticking to the ownership model (i.e. purchasing the Logos feature sets). This is a somewhat disappointing maneuver by FL.
I feel the same and would support the calls to keep Logos Now as it is for those of us who have no interest in Logos Cloud, Faithlife TV, Mobile Ed etc.
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Using some kind of dynamic pricing model to account for the resources and features that I already own would make it a lot more attractive for me. I don't want to pay again for those resources that I already own.
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I only want the Logos features as they are developed. That's my sole reason for subscribing to Now. The other bits were an appreciated addition but I would pay the price just for the updates. I cannot pay double the current price for that privilege going forward and I doubt the value in the partial set on the lower tier based on the rollout of features under Now in the past. I may throw the special thanks at a couple years of Connect Lite to see how it goes. But I'm not happy losing the new features. I would've paid a bit more to keep the feature updates, but no where near double, it doesn't add up.
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I continue to be grateful for Logos and I understand that they need to develop their business.
But like many others I feel that it's a shame that we now need to pay more in order to continue using the same tools. That makes the subscription model unattainable to me, so I will probably end up using my $200 discount to purchase the L7 Full Feature Set.
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I'm not sure where to start. I wrestled with canceling LN this year and just buying the data sets but decided that the free book of the month was enough to keep me interested. I love my Logos Bible software but wished I had the foresight to buy the data sets and get out last month before I renewed my subscription. I will not pay the $200 for Faithlife Connect.
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EDIT: something happened to what I quoted. My post is about keeping LogosNow and Faithlife Connect two seperate things. Just slim down LogosNow to only be the full feature set and a free book.
I think they should consider this at least for those who are already subscribing to LogosNow. You don't have to advertise it, although that might be good for some. For all the people who subscribe from here forward they can choose from what you are now offering.
The only reason I subscribed to Logos Now was to have all the logos features. I was in a debate between getting a feature set or Logos Now. I went with Logos Now. The other things you gave us, I used them but just like if someone hands me a free book or t-shirt I will probably take it and put it on my shelf and eventually look at the book or wear the shirt.
I think there definitely needs to be a list of exactly what Logos Features go with what subscriptions. Thankfully, I have almost a year before it affects me. I'm trusting these things will be cleared up by then.
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Could not have said it better!!!!
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Daniel Bender said:
I love my Logos Bible software but wished I had the foresight to buy the data sets and get out last month before I renewed my subscription.
I think you came out ahead this year. It appears that you got upgraded benefits through February 2019 that didn't cost anything, along with a coupon to put towards the data sets.
Perhaps it's good that you didn't get out last month? [:)]
Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!
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Whenever Faithlife/Logos has a major release or announcement it is always a train wreck. The email that was sent to me out of the blue did nothing to help me understand this new program, created more questions than information and just plain confused me. It would seem to me that a basic marketing skill would be to anticipate your customers questions and concerns. Issues like, you say there are 7 tiers of of subscription. What are they? What do they include? What is the price?
Like others I subscribed to LN for features and updates and was happy to help pay for the development of the software. But with Faith connect I have no interest in Faithlife TV, Logos Cloud, or Faithlife Ebooks. I’m disappointed that it seems an all or nothing deal. So with that in mind I will not renew my subscription and purchase the features that I don’t have and let it go at that. I hope that Logos 8 is not moving toward in all subsciptions model. Owning the tools of my trade is important to me.
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Scot Wright said:
Issues like, you say there are 7 tiers of of subscription. What are they? What do they include? What is the price?
This is "mostly" shown at https://connect.faithlife.com/pricing - click the "See More Plans" button to scroll through the levels.
The "mostly" is because while it shows how many Logos books are included it doesn't detail what these books are. And I expect this may change over time.
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Graham Criddle said:Scot Wright said:
Issues like, you say there are 7 tiers of of subscription. What are they? What do they include? What is the price?
This is "mostly" shown at https://connect.faithlife.com/pricing - click the "See More Plans" button to scroll through the levels.
The "mostly" is because while it shows how many Logos books are included it doesn't detail what these books are. And I expect this may change over time.
Thank you Graham for that information but as I recall it was not forth coming in the email that was sent. I can appreciate that the packages may change over time but if you want people to consider a major investment of their money it would be incumbent to provide more detail than not. This whole thing just seems to be rolled out incomplete and without the necessary thought.
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Graham Criddle said:
The "mostly" is because while it shows how many Logos books are included it doesn't detail what these books are.
To see what resources are included, click the i and then "See all titles..."
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