Faithlife Connect punishes Logos' best customers!
I am puzzled by how Faithlife Connect punishes it's best customers. I assume that a large part of Logos' justification for the price increase is the addition of Logos Cloud. As a long time user, I have built up a large library. As far as I can tell I reap zero benefit from the addition of Logos Cloud.
Is there any way to add dynamic discounting? If not, I am sure I will not be renewing next February. As it is now Faithlife Connect is a ripoff.
Comments
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Customer churn. Loose half, for breakeven; build from there. Slowly strip off the loosers who create unprofitable support demands.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Denise said:
Customer churn. Loose half, for breakeven; build from there. Slowly strip off the loosers who create unprofitable support demands.
I'm not going to comment on the truth of this. But the fact that some line who is as active a user posting over 8000 times in the forums has this perception, is a statement on how bad this has been rolled out or how bad this decision was.
I think it shows amazing desperation on the part of FL. But if you're right it shows a terribly harsh view of us as customers on the part of Bob Phil and the gang.
Wow!!
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
Actually, Kevin, Phil has expressed the 'churn' sentiments (basic marketing); Bob the issue of low-revenue customers with high support costs. I chose the word 'loosers' on purpose. One common usage today, implies stupidity; but the one here is decision-based. Businesses intensionally choose loosers.
Now for a bit of unneeded soap-box (I'm not a Now'er):
- When both gentlemen intro'd the conversation (just 1 release back I think), remember the promises for better and better? That's how they sold it. Quite a few believed them. I didn't.
- The primary market we're discussing is 'sowers of the Word' ... not Netflix channel changers. Logos folks are not the most monied crowd around. Pennies matter.
- 8000 posts is no more valuable than 1 post, with the exception of Dave, Graham, the Marks, and MJ. I say that, meaning, a new customer is as valued as any other.
But I do always read yours; always good.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Tip for Denise - don't Google looser as I just did to see why you chose the word.
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Keith Larson said:
I am puzzled by how Faithlife Connect punishes it's best customers. I assume that a large part of Logos' justification for the price increase is the addition of Logos Cloud. As a long time user, I have built up a large library. As far as I can tell I reap zero benefit from the addition of Logos Cloud.
Is there any way to add dynamic discounting? If not, I am sure I will not be renewing next February. As it is now Faithlife Connect is a ripoff.
I agree with you here. I already own everything available at the $200 per month level except some of the classic commentary sets, so how is it that I would be charged the same as someone who doesn't own any of those? My other option is not to participate; however, that means I will eventually lose out on the only benefit for which I currently pay for Logos Now: early access to new features.
Disclaimer: I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication. If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.
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(I just called Keith to discuss his particular situation, but wanted to reply here so others can see.)
We've tried to take particular care of our best customers; Logos Now subscribers should have received (by end of today -- 500 of the emails got backed up) special offers that address the changes, ranging from credit with which to buy a feature set and 'lock-in' the feature sets they had via Logos Now subscription, to free access to Faithlife Connect for some customers who are significant transactional purchasers.
I will post a new thread soon with more explanation and reasoning.
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Joseph Turner said:
I will eventually lose out on the only benefit for which I currently pay for Logos Now: early access to new features.
In my new thread I'll address the early access to new features as well...
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Tom Reynolds said:
Tip for Denise - don't Google looser as I just did to see why you chose the word.
I'm laughing ...
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Bob Pritchett said:Joseph Turner said:
I will eventually lose out on the only benefit for which I currently pay for Logos Now: early access to new features.
In my new thread I'll address the early access to new features as well...
And features that required server end support, only two reasons why I had LN...
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Bob Pritchett said:
I will post a new thread soon with more explanation and reasoning.
Bob,
Listen to this...
You literally just DOUBLED the price of the LN for less features and resources for us.
- Price: It used to be $99/year, but now, to get the same features, it would cost us MORE THAN DOUBLE! it's $240.
- Package: If we stay on Starter package (poor man's choice, the equivalence of LN), we DON'T GET THE FULL SET anymore like it used to be. We LOST the full dataset features.
- Ebooks Classics: We lost the free "Ebooks Classics", that we normally get once a month. (I'm still complaining, because I have majority of the books offered, so I'm left with super-super-classic old books to choose). Again, this is the poor man's package-choice.
- Faithlife TV: Nobody care about Faithlife TV... stop making this happen, it is NOT gonna happen. You have too much projects going on. I'm not even going to mention them. Drop Faithlife TV. It has ZERO quality. (except Mike Heiser, thank goodness for him)
- Logos Cloud Essential Books: I DON'T NEED THIS. I have 99.9% books offered from the ULTIMATE package. STOP penalizing people to buy-in this cloud nonsense. Get rid these books, we don't need them..and LOWER the price.
- 2% reward: Really...nobody is dying for this.
- $100-$200 giftcard: Really sneaky move to entice us in so we don't FEEL so bad for subscribing, hoping to that we stay another year to make up your giftcard. But nonetheless, this is the only good thing out of it.. BUT still NOT good enough.
- If you want to increase your income... this is not how you do it. If you want to be able to feed your workers, do it right. Please.
If you want to RAISE the price of Logos Now and called it whatever it is ... GIVE your customers the right increase products to match the price increase, otherwise you just anger the mob.
I really don't want to call you greedy.. but whoever design the pricing and plan... you think he/she is cool & smart... but he/she needs to be corrected on his/her performance evaluation. This is NOT LOGOS's character and personality. You're losing your honor and credibility, as person and as a company.
Thanks for listening
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To no one in particular: What is Faithlife Connect?
To Keith Larson (OP): I don't know if the word is "punish" or not. I have not been very "Logos Friendly" when it comes to pricing. Even though I have changed my opinion, somewhat, I still disagree that using God's word in the sense of marketing, corporation, etc. is a good thing. I have ALWAYS believed that a workman is worthy their hire. But the argument "We are a business" has never flown right with me.
That said, I do believe companies can do God's work, be a company, get paid, and on and on. Unfortunately, politics have gotten hold of even the best companies, and if I'm not mistaken, in Washington state, minimum wage has increased to a ridiculous $15/hr. (And, yes, I can say this, being a part time minimum wage and sub minimum wage earner). Instead of making life better for us in poverty levels, it actually makes things worse. Any company who has to go from 7 or 8 per hour to 10-15 an hour is going to be hit hard. One thing Logos/Faithlife does well is in the employee dept. They're rated among one of the greatest companies to work for. Bar moving out of state and/or cutting 25-75% of the staff, they have to increase prices. Which, once again, affects those of us who are supposed to be helped by the increase. So, in this case, I would not say Faithlife/Logos (or whatever name they are being called this week) is punishing anyone; but rather, in this case, is being punished for being a company and being in business.0 -
Batman said:
To no one in particular: What is Faithlife Connect?
Logos previously had two subscription services: Logos Now (providing access to features & other membership goodies) and Logos Cloud (renting base packages with features). Faithlife Connect replaces both.
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mike said:
$100-$200 giftcard: Really sneaky move to entice us in so we don't FEEL so bad for subscribing, hoping to that we stay another year to make up your giftcard. But nonetheless, this is the only good thing out of it.. BUT still NOT good enough.
For anyone who got $200, you really got about $480. $200 voucher + $240 (1 free year of Essentials) + $40 (LN extended to November). That comes out to two free years of Connect Essentials that FL gave away for free. Customer cost? Nothing!
People could be wildly thankful, then see how things look 1-2 years from now when their Essentials expires or voucher is spent.
mike said:GIVE your customers the right increase products to match the price increase, otherwise you just anger the mob.
I've already posted elsewhere how we got up to $1500 in Mobile Ed course benefits (2 free courses/yr which could cost $750 each), as well as $350 in Lexham Press books (1 free book/month).
Just those two benefits alone come to $1850. If it's not worth it to pay $240 (and get back $350 in useful books), I can't see how people aren't managing to get the subscription to pay for itself, at least once over.
(Plus we still get a discount on libraries and feature sets.)
mike said:2% reward: Really...nobody is dying for this
Hmm. Better than the 1% cash back on credit cards. Together with that 2%, that's 3% cash back. No reason to be grateful?
What is wrong with us, if we can disparage people (or a company) instead of seeing the good that they also do? I think the only thing we should get angry about is how we poorly treat one another.
Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!
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mike said:Bob Pritchett said:
I will post a new thread soon with more explanation and reasoning.
Bob,
Listen to this...
You literally just DOUBLED the price of the LN for less features and resources for us.
- Price: It used to be $99/year, but now, to get the same features, it would cost us MORE THAN DOUBLE! it's $240.
- Package: If we stay on Starter package (poor man's choice, the equivalence of LN), we DON'T GET THE FULL SET anymore like it used to be. We LOST the full dataset features.
- Ebooks Classics: We lost the free "Ebooks Classics", that we normally get once a month. (I'm still complaining, because I have majority of the books offered, so I'm left with super-super-classic old books to choose). Again, this is the poor man's package-choice.
- Faithlife TV: Nobody care about Faithlife TV... stop making this happen, it is NOT gonna happen. You have too much projects going on. I'm not even going to mention them. Drop Faithlife TV. It has ZERO quality. (except Mike Heiser, thank goodness for him)
- Logos Cloud Essential Books: I DON'T NEED THIS. I have 99.9% books offered from the ULTIMATE package. STOP penalizing people to buy-in this cloud nonsense. Get rid these books, we don't need them..and LOWER the price.
- 2% reward: Really...nobody is dying for this.
- $100-$200 giftcard: Really sneaky move to entice us in so we don't FEEL so bad for subscribing, hoping to that we stay another year to make up your giftcard. But nonetheless, this is the only good thing out of it.. BUT still NOT good enough.
- If you want to increase your income... this is not how you do it. If you want to be able to feed your workers, do it right. Please.
If you want to RAISE the price of Logos Now and called it whatever it is ... GIVE your customers the right increase products to match the price increase, otherwise you just anger the mob.
I really don't want to call you greedy.. but whoever design the pricing and plan... you think he/she is cool & smart... but he/she needs to be corrected on his/her performance evaluation. This is NOT LOGOS's character and personality. You're losing your honor and credibility, as person and as a company.
Thanks for listening
1. I agree with Mike.
2. I want my subscription to Logos Now back or at least its equivalent. I was moved to a package that doesn’t even give me the equivalent of what I was receiving in Now.
3. This has been done completely wrong. The current Now subscriptions should have been honored. This appears like you are trying to force products on your customers that they don’t want.
4. People should have been given a choice to either keep Logos now or to switch to the new product ( Faithlife connections).
5. When a man physically forces himself sexually on a woman it is called rape. When a company sales one product to a person but then switches it to something else on them it is called fraud.
6. I have always loved Logos as a company and it hurts me to even have written these words. From what I have read on these forums, it appears that I’m not the only one hurt by the choices made by the executives of your company.
7. I hope that you can repair your relationship with your customer base before it’s too late. Word of mouth still means a lot even in the digital age.
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You know I just looked and since 2008 I have spent "Total $44,555.80" and this whole situation is just becoming a lot of heart burn. On open Pre-pubs I have "Total $608.21" and Community Pricing "Total $728.00" and about another $3,000 in wishlist items I consider doing....yet in order to keep level of benefits I currently hold I have to double my annual contribution and pay on a monthly basis which is just a pain...and then to swallow on top of that I would have to be paying for at least 90% I won't even use just to keep the 10% I would....
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Bob Pritchett said:
(I just called Keith to discuss his particular situation, but wanted to reply here so others can see.)
We've tried to take particular care of our best customers; Logos Now subscribers should have received (by end of today -- 500 of the emails got backed up) special offers that address the changes, ranging from credit with which to buy a feature set and 'lock-in' the feature sets they had via Logos Now subscription, to free access to Faithlife Connect for some customers who are significant transactional purchasers.
I will post a new thread soon with more explanation and reasoning.
With respect, please don't give us a TL,DR post about why this is such a great deal with new added benefits. The bottom line is that probably the majority of us don't want to pay $240 a year to maintain the features we previously paid $99 for. That is the issue.
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I don't know that I would be "one of their best customers" as I have limited funds, but I have been a Logos customer since version 2. I have over the years encouraged other pastors to consider Logos, but that has gotten much more difficult. I bought Bibleworks a number of years ago because at that time it was clearly better working with original languages. I continued to keep current with Logos as well. In recent years I have purchased books in Wordsearch and Accordance because of major price differences. I bought into the EEC commentaries which ended up being delayed again and again and again - at age 65 I probably will not see all the volumes published as there are several who no longer even have authors selected. I upgraded Logos to 7 and decided that Logos Now made more sense than buying the full features and I liked the idea of always being current. Now that it has been increased 140% I can no longer recommend it to Pastors serving in small rural areas like myself. I would encourage young men in Seminary to look other directions for their tools.
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Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I wonder if its too late for us to trade this mess for Faithlife dating and Bram stokers dracula
much prefer the both of those to faithlife connect and the "improved" payment plans.
I let Now drop a year ago or so because of finances. but this definitely puts it out of reach.
I now wonder if the 5 figures of resources I have license to are worth it. It feels like a punishment for those of us who have bought in heavily (20k +/-)L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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Punish? I don’t know, but certainly maybe not identified with in terms of how they might find the change hard to swallow. Change comes hard, but failthlife connect starter is no replacement for logos now.
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Nord Zootman said:
I upgraded Logos to 7 and decided that Logos Now made more sense than buying the full features and I liked the idea of always being current. Now that it has been increased 140% I can no longer recommend it to Pastors serving in small rural areas like myself. I would encourage young men in Seminary to look other directions for their tools.
Thankful for Bob Pritchett explaining Why Faithlife Connect => Logos Now and Faithlife Connect: The Why
Thankful can demonstrate many usable Bible Study features with a Faithlife account that has $ 0.00 total for orders. Thankful for free Logos 7 Basic => https://www.logos.com/product/136022/basic and Verbum Basic => https://www.logos.com/product/136168/verbum-basic along with many free Logos resources => https://www.logos.com/products/search?q=price%3a0 and free Faithlife EBooks => https://ebooks.faithlife.com/search?context=product&sortBy=price-low
Thankful free Basic packages include "access-only" Bibles with Reverse Interlinears, which enable visual filter highlighting of Greek verbal nuances so can "see" range of verbal expression in Lexham English Bible (LEB), King James Version (KJV), and SBL Greek. Thankful Faithlife enabled sharing of documents so they can be freely copied for others to use.
Apologies since not know of other Bible software with similar capability to combine lots of search results for simultaneous display.
Keep Smiling
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Mike, Thanks.
Weird, I just signed back up to Now. Cloud, I don't remember, unless it was another other name. All these name changes. I can't keep up. [:D] [:D] [:D]0 -
PetahChristian
PetahChristian said:Hmm. Better than the 1% cash back on credit cards. Together with that 2%, that's 3% cash back. No reason to be grateful?
What is wrong with us, if we can disparage people (or a company) instead of seeing the good that they also do? I think the only thing we should get angry about is how we poorly treat one another.
2% is good for milk. That's about it. [:D]
"Better than the 1% cash back on credit cards".
That's not EVEN good enough for milk. I get amazed as to how they act like they are giving us a whole bunch. For every 100 pennies I spend, they'll give me one penny back? And then charge me another 21-35 pennies every year? Oh boy I'm jumping up and down on that one. But, yes, you are correct. Two is better than one, but, I do agree with Mike, it's almost not even worth mentioning.
And I totally agree with you on this one: What is wrong with us, if we can disparage people (or a company) instead of seeing the good that they also do? I think the only thing we should get angry about is how we poorly treat one another.
But, at the same time, many companies (I'm speaking in general) need a good swift kick upside their heads, the horrible things they do; and we just sit back and let em do it.
As far as this new system goes, I'll have to wait and see. I hadn't heard of it until just now; and just rejoined L Now, so, I probably won't qualify for any of the benefits next year.0 -
PetahChristian,
please explain what you mean when you say essentials. I got a 200 voucher and I sure would like to understand... It feels like my main tool, lemma in passage and my main resource book I am currently in (Lexham Hebrew Interlinear Bible) are gone.
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Dear Keep Smiling 4 Jesus
Wonderful visual filter set up on the example..... did you get that from a video or an article or ???? I have tried in the greek with not near as much success.... VERY NEAT
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Rob Lambert said:
please explain what you mean when you say essentials.
As in Faithlife Connect Essentials (a Connect pricing tier equivalent to Logos Now).
Any new customer who subscribes to that would be getting the equivalent of Logos Now, along with other Faithlife Connect benefits.
Rob Lambert said:I got a 200 voucher
Rob, you are in the best possible situation. If you check your subscriptions, you should see "Faithlife Connect Essentials - Annual," which will not expire until February 22, 2019.
That means you are getting free (Logos Now and) Faithlife Connect benefits for a whole year, which include lemma in passage, and the interlinear.
I'd recommend that you save your voucher until L8 is released, then decide whether you want to continue to subscribe (to FC Essentials), or own (buy the L8 FFS).
P.S. Make sure to take advantage of your FL Connect Essentials free book(s) and access to courses (by visiting https://connect.faithlife.com/get-started and scrolling down to Claim your benefits.
Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!
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guys.... what does tl,dr mean?????
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Thank you.... I knew that!!!!!!!
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