Win $100 Logos credit...

I'm doing research on church operations.

Please help me by answering these short surveys.

Everyone who does, and enters their email address at the end, will be entered into a drawing for a $100 credit at Logos.com. (We'll have three winners, chosen in a week.)

Answering both surveys puts you in the drawing twice. They are short, one-page surveys.

Church Phone Systems: https://goo.gl/forms/UrAHxJq96qJSROVi1

Church Visitors and Attendance: https://goo.gl/forms/ZKPxXBfJr4Su35X53

You don't have to be the pastor -- most of you should be able to answer these questions about their church.

Feel free to reply with your thoughts and ideas here.

Background: Logos Bible Software continues to be Faithlife's flagship product and primary focus, but we're growing to serve churches in other ways, with products like Proclaim, Ministry Tracker, and the Faithlife Groups platform. We just want to better understand church's needs.

Our mission remains: to use technology to equip the Church to grow in the light of the Bible.

Your survey answers and feedback here is incredibly important and has a big impact on our planning. We are here to serve you.

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Comments

Nick Highland

I know the technology is probably cost prohibitive, but I am really looking forward to automated attendance tracking using facial recognition... Just putting that out there

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/970330#Comment_970330

I know the technology is probably cost prohibitive, but I am really looking forward to automated attendance tracking using facial recognition... Just putting that out there

I'm really looking forward to that not happening. [;)]

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/970332#Comment_970332

Thanks for asking for our opinions.

Nick Highland

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/970332#Comment_970332

I know the technology is probably cost prohibitive, but I am really looking forward to automated attendance tracking using facial recognition... Just putting that out there

I'm really looking forward to that not happening.

As someone responsible for attendance tracking, I want it. On the other hand, I admit that I don't desire to be tracked using my face. Haha

Bob Pritchett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/970330#Comment_970330

I know the technology is probably cost prohibitive, but I am really looking forward to automated attendance tracking using facial recognition... Just putting that out there

I've seen a system that does this, and have done some research on it out of curiosity... one way to do it isn't even to track specific people, but simply to record 'unique faces' and get a headcount. It could be done with a video camera aimed at the main entrance.

But, yes, it can feel a bit weird... and isn't something we're working on. I just thought it was an interesting technology problem.

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/970330#Comment_970330

I know the technology is probably cost prohibitive, but I am really looking forward to automated attendance tracking using facial recognition... Just putting that out there

IF this could be done discreetly, so that it didn't look like the inside of a prison (or whatever) then that would be interesting. But not really interested in having big ugly cameras in the worship space.

My church is small enough, that almost all of it is worship space.

In the retail sector wireless routers are being deployed to track customers by their cellphones. the idea being if 40% of the customers that come in, do so for our display of folgers coffee, then advertising a "sale" on folgers would likely bring in a lot of customers.

However, the same tech could be deployed at churches to give a decent count. Could likely even track new members.

My cousin has a company that does this and other things with wifi based out of louisville ky.

Bob Pritchett

One assumption I have is that people would like to be 'freed from the land-line'... and that churches are in a weird middle-ground of needing 'a business phone system' (the ability to transfer calls to various people with different responsibilities) but, unless large, most of their team isn't on-site all the time, and they don't have the budget for a big system.

A useful product might be a single phone number, administered over the web, with the ability to set a message, and then either speak audio clips or forward to other phone numbers based on voice/number input. With all of these features controlled by time of day.

Here's an open Google document with some ideas... (feel free to add comments!)

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XUYY-l95n3kSQxvQ4Ea1mjrl435HqVOnfeG8Lu3sfzE/edit?usp=sharing

I appreciate your feedback!

EastTN

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/970332#Comment_970332

I know the technology is probably cost prohibitive, but I am really looking forward to automated attendance tracking using facial recognition... Just putting that out there

I'm really looking forward to that not happening.

I agree - waaaay too creepy for me.

PetahChristian

You don't have to be the pastor -- most of you should be able to answer these questions about their church

While one may be a member of the body of Christ, perhaps their place of worship isn’t called a church?

Would a Rabbi/Messianic Synagogue be part of this target audience?

GaoLu

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/970330#Comment_970330

I know the technology is probably cost prohibitive, but I am really looking forward to automated attendance tracking using facial recognition... Just putting that out there

I have been places where that is used already, in Asia.

Richard Villanueva

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/970351#Comment_970351

One assumption I have is that people would like to be 'freed from the land-line'... and that churches are in a weird middle-ground of needing 'a business phone system' (the ability to transfer calls to various people with different responsibilities) but, unless large, most of their team isn't on-site all the time, and they don't have the budget for a big system.

this is interesting. I was just having a conversation about switching our phone systems, which are pretty old. But to upgrade wouldn’t make sense because many of us only use them, if at all for interoffice communication. So upgrading to a high-tech solution would be an great improvement to a system we just don’t use much... and a waste of church finance.

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/970398#Comment_970398

So upgrading to a high-tech solution would be an great improvement to a system we just don’t use much... and a waste of church finance.

That depends a little on what you're presently paying every month vs. what you would be paying after the upgrade.

David Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/970398#Comment_970398

But to upgrade wouldn’t make sense because many of us only use them, if at all for interoffice communication. So upgrading to a high-tech solution would be an great improvement to a system we just don’t use much... and a waste of church finance.

Unless a high-tech system would allow congregants & vendors to call the church and the system would allow a secretary (or a phone tree menu) to forward the call to your cell (without giving your cell number to people who may not respect your boundaries). Thereby making your staff more accessible during the workday (whether onsite or offsite) without jeopardizing your boundaries during times of Sabbath.

Richard Villanueva

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/970819#Comment_970819

Unless a high-tech system would allow congregants & vendors to call the church and the system would allow a secretary (or a phone tree menu) to forward the call to your cell (without giving your cell number to people who may not respect your boundaries). Thereby making your staff more accessible during the workday (whether onsite or offsite) without jeopardizing your boundaries during times of Sabbath.

Agreed - and this is a functionality our current system has the capability to do. That is a great solution to have - distirbuting personal mobile phone numbers can become an overwhelming situation. It’s bad enough I’m consistently called by telemarketers to be in formed that solar panels, a free cruise, and the next charity fund needs my immediate attention. I love talking to and ministering to my congregants, but my kiddos needs some of my time as well. I’m definitely interested to see where this thread goes regarding church tech. It boggles my mind trying to think ahead towards what is next with communication tech.

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/970837#Comment_970837

I'm sure that there are probably a number of clergy who would appreciate a system that discriminates to some extent in terms of options offered, so that (for example) a local caller gets an emergency option that forwards to a cleric for hospital-related and similar emergencies, but the spammer from a foreign country doesn't get to wake up the pastor at 2:30 AM.

Alan Hart

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/970330#Comment_970330

Please forgive me as I am sure to many my comments will seem harsh, but here goes...facial recognition software, among other toys in the church, it isn't that it is unbelievable that someone would conceive of this, it is just that we may need to get our eyes on something more important than another gimmick in the church, you know, like, the world is going to hell without the Gospel and the number of Christian missionaries is diminishing n a daily basis. I don't mean the short term trip that is more of a church sponsored vacation than missions. I mean men and women that give their lives to go to some corner of the world to pour out their lives in self sacrificing service. Where are the Judsons, the Taylors, etc. The sad truth is that many reading this won't even know these names. We don't need more gimmicks, we need more servants.

Stephen McCracken

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/971763#Comment_971763

Please forgive me as I am sure to many my comments will seem harsh, but here goes...facial recognition software, among other toys in the church, it isn't that it is unbelievable that someone would conceive of this, it is just that we may need to get our eyes on something more important than another gimmick in the church, you know, like, the world is going to hell without the Gospel and the number of Christian missionaries is diminishing n a daily basis. I don't mean the short term trip that is more of a church sponsored vacation than missions. I mean men and women that give their lives to go to some corner of the world to pour out their lives in self sacrificing service. Where are the Judsons, the Taylors, etc. The sad truth is that many reading this won't even know these names. We don't need more gimmicks, we need more servants.

Alan, I am sure we all agree with this great need. But i think it is a question we are allowed to ask. Most churches in the world are under 250 families (and I pastor two churches) because that seems to be a healthy size to pastor effectively. Once you get over 250 then the admin part starts to grow within your role. Any the loss is in knowing people personally. So I wonder how larger churches can recognize who is missing, who is coming etc. so that the pastoral work can be picked up during the week. Therefore I don't have a problem with this question being asked.

Reuben Helmuth

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/971945#Comment_971945

My church would never pay anything for attendance tracking, but we do have a conference line for every service that allows people to call in and listen to the service. Our current solution is free but is "cobbled" (a combination of Skype & FreeConferencing.com). A solution that would be tightly integrated with Proclaim would definitely add value.

Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/971945#Comment_971945

I am sure we all agree with this great need. But i think it is a question we are allowed to ask.

Alan is right in his observations. Stephen McC is also right that it is a question that is allowed to be asked and worthy of discussion.

My own approach is quite simple - the minute any church I attend uses facial recognition software or tries to use technology to surveils its members, then I will leave. It would not matter how good the sermons are or how caring the pastoral team purports to be. It would not matter whether the people are the most loving and caring in the world. The issue for me (and many others) is fundamentally whether I or anyone else as a church member or attendee is entitled to a degree of privacy in church that increasingly we are losing outside in the public space.

Many people work (or have worked) in situations where their hours and attendance is micromanaged by their managers or bosses. Would they also welcome questions from a 'concerned' pastor as to why they were not there last Sunday? I wondering whether the desire for technology in church is not simply about making administration easier, but about a level of personal intrusion that many people would find disturbing. Keep well Paul

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/971977#Comment_971977

A useful product might be a single phone number, administered over the web, with the ability to set a message, and then either speak audio clips or forward to other phone numbers based on voice/number input. With all of these features controlled by time of day.

Another idea is helping Love One Another in Prayer plus sharing abundance with those in need (hopefully with some wise discrimination between want and need).

Thankful for greatest communication being a personal relationship with God [:D] who knows each of us by name along with our needs. Do like Rejoicing with those who are Rejoicing and Weeping with those who are Weeping.

Challenge is how to look up from technology devices to see God and other people as God Loves everyone.

I know the technology is probably cost prohibitive, but I am really looking forward to automated attendance tracking using facial recognition... Just putting that out there

IF this could be done discreetly, so that it didn't look like the inside of a prison (or whatever) then that would be interesting. But not really interested in having big ugly cameras in the worship space.

Cameras could be discreetly placed, which is happening in many public places. Noticed non-discreet cameras in several grocery stores with video screens that beep when you walk in the aisle (to help reduce stealing from shelves). FYI: grocery cameras are more noticeable than ones in prison.

My own approach is quite simple - the minute any church I attend uses facial recognition software or tries to use technology to surveils its members, then I will leave.

Observation: carrying a cell phone already lets your phone provider know where you are (signal strength shows on your phone for communication with cell towers). Using mobile apps provides opportunities for location tracking to a wider audience. Also having WiFi enabled provides more tracking (along with better location accuracy).

Retail restaurants and stores have reward programs that track personal usage. Some have mobile apps with Tap to check in. Church attendance on a mobile app where you choose to check in could be a possibility along with public Prayer & Praises plus relationship reminders (getting older has its opportunities to forget more)

Keep Smiling [:)]

Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/972259#Comment_972259

My own approach is quite simple - the minute any church I attend uses facial recognition software or tries to use technology to surveils its members, then I will leave.

Observation: carrying a cell phone already lets your phone provider know where you are (signal strength shows on your phone for communication with cell towers). Using mobile apps provides opportunities for location tracking to a wider audience. Also having WiFi enabled provides more tracking (along with better location accuracy).

Retail restaurants and stores have reward programs that track personal usage. Some have mobile apps with Tap to check in. Church attendance on a mobile app where you choose to check in could be a possibility along with public Prayer & Praises plus relationship reminders (getting older has its opportunities to forget more)

Thanks KS4J - The points you make are well founded regarding mobile phones, WiFi and the reward programs. These raise privacy problems in our day. My practice is to keep my mobile phone switched off until I need to use it. I never take a mobile phone into church. I am not a member of a rewards program for a supermarket or restaurant. I'm also aware of these issues as I spent several decades as a lawyer in a law enforcement agency - which used every form of technology you might imagine. Law enforcement has a job to do too.

Yet the increasing spread of intrusive technologies used by commercial entities now means a serious diminishing of individual privacy - and for convenience many will go along with it. Churches that use surveillance methods on their members without having a serious personal safety or law enforcement reason, disrespect and demean their members. Someone recording when I enter or leave a church, my behavior in that place or to identify me to their people for an administrative purpose is not in real relationship with me. Why would I worship God in such a place? Keep well Paul

Bob Pritchett

Thank you for participating! The three winners have been chosen, and will be emailed about their $100 credit soon.

I really appreciate the feedback -- it's very helpful!

-- Bob

David Taylor, Jr.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/973583#Comment_973583

Thank you for participating! The three winners have been chosen, and will be emailed about their $100 credit soon.

I really appreciate the feedback -- it's very helpful!

-- Bob

Wish I had seen this sooner, but I went ahead and took the survey for you anyway Bob!

Reuben Helmuth

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/973583#Comment_973583

The three winners have been chosen, and will be emailed ... soon

Still haven't gotten the email... 🤪

GaoLu

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/973957#Comment_973957

I have been keeping an eye on mine too. You never know!

Kason

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/973962#Comment_973962

I was one of the winners! Thanks so much!

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/973991#Comment_973991

I was one of the winners! Thanks so much!

Congratulations! In the past it was someone who never even posted in the forums. Enjoy your price! 👍😁👌

DAL

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/972434#Comment_972434

I'm also aware of these issues as I spent several decades as a lawyer in a law enforcement agency - which used every form of technology you might imagine. Law enforcement has a job to do too.

This reminded me of the news article this Easter, about new technologies for encouraging your child to attend church. The mother taser'd her son. Apparently, the son was not amused, and the authorites became involved. But the mother seemed unrepentent, happily quoting the Bible (without the taser).

(this thread seemed to survive 2 parallel discussions, and happily, 3 winners!)

GaoLu

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/973991#Comment_973991

I was one of the winners! Thanks so much!

Congrats Kason. Enjoy [:)]

Andrew Biddinger

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/973957#Comment_973957

Yeah...I think my email got lost in delivery. [8-)]