We have a new post up on the Academic Blog in which I offer six reasons why you need to learn Latin, and why you need to begin learning it today.
Check it out: https://bit.ly/2Jved3d
The Editor
I was curious and went to the site. I immediately signed off - I will not go to sites that immediately blot out what I'm trying to look at with a pop-up ad.
If you aren't using an ad blocker, that's on you.
I was curious and went to the site. I immediately signed off - I will not go to sites that immediately blot out what I'm trying to look at with a pop-up ad. If you aren't using an ad blocker, that's on you.
Sad but true, it’s on you! I didn’t get any pop ups so it must be you 👍😁👉
have ad pop blocker and it still comes up...so who's it on now?
I didn't get past the secret coded site name, which could just as easily be the real site name (though easily fakable). But once there, I agree. I love sites that try to anger visitors if at all possible. "In your face, you ungrateful visitor!!"
Regarding latin, I refused most of the numbered reasons ... they make sense, if Christianity is a Mediteranian cosmos thing. Chinese is more interesting.
Morning Tavis! Ok, so latin is important and I'm enjoying my Vulgate interlinear!
We have a new post up on the Academic Blog in which I offer six reasons why you need to learn Latin, and why you need to begin learning it today. Check it out: https://bit.ly/2Jved3d The Editor
Not to rain on your parade but as of today, a standard requirement for all doctoral students of biblical studies is a mastery of the following languages: Biblical Hebrew, Koine Greek, for obvious reasons; and German and French, because all of the major secondary literature is in either German or French (particularly true for the study of the DSS where French is the primary language used to discuss scrolls research). I personally found no need to learn Latin, and it certainly wasn't ever required of me.
Having said that, a generation ago, they also required doctoral students of biblical studies to also have a mastery of Latin. This was because most of the classic commentaries (e.g. Bengel, Meyer, Alford, etc) were either written entirely in Latin, or they quoted Latin authors extensively with no complementary English translation parallel to the quotes. But as I said, because the world has moved on, this is no longer a requirement. Almost no one nowadays quotes authors in Latin.
All in all, I would say if you want to study Patristics seriously, or want to seriously study one of the deuterocanonical or pseudepigraphic books which have been preserved primary in Latin (e.g. 5-6 Ezra or the Latin Vision of Ezra), then Latin is obviously a must-have. Other than that, I really don't see the point of learning it. The time spent learning Latin could be better spent learning other more useful things, such as for example, Aramaic, or Ethiopic (or to give it its correct name: Ge'er, as the most important deuterocanonical or pseudepigraphic books such as 1 Enoch or Jubilees have been principally preserved in Ethiopic).
Hi Denise! Gotta love the Vulgate, it makes for a good breakfast!
Hi Alex, it is quite annoying, isn't it? I'm working to get it removed. The article is worth your time, if you can get past the pop-up.
I also have an ad-blocker installed on Chrome, which is Adblock Plus. I also visited the page but didn't get any pop-ups telling me to disable it. I wonder if it's because I also have TemperMonkey installed, using the Anti Adblock Killer (i.e. "Reek") plugin.
EDIT -
I just tried disabling Tempermonkey, and re-visited the site. But it still didn't trigger any pop-ups. So, that rules out that little theory.
I'm curious to know, exactly what ad-blocker are you using? And what browser?
It’s on your computer 👍😁👌
DAL
Maintaining my Greek is about all I have time for. I think "need to learn Latin" may be a bit of an overstatement. [:D]
Reading Latin Vulgate from a paper version is my summer cottage hobby. No need for dictionaries, just guessing the meaning of the less common words. Sitting in the verandah and fantasizing that I am somewhere near Bay of Naples. What could be better?
I offer six reasons why you need to learn Latin, and why you need to begin learning it today.
Thanks for the encouragement Tavis. I have started to learn Latin but more recently my study has languished. There is so much I would love to study and so little time.
By the way, this is the resource I'm using to learn Latin. What are others using?
Other than that, I really don't see the point of learning it. The time spent learning Latin could be better spent learning other more useful things, such as for example, Aramaic, or Ethiopic (or to give it its correct name: Ge'er, as the most important deuterocanonical or pseudepigraphic books such as 1 Enoch or Jubilees have been principally preserved in Ethiopic).
Yeah, I agree. Latin would be nice to know, but to say someone "needs" to know Latin is a huge stretch, especially since there are so many other options as skill sets a scholar may choose to invest their time in.
Not to discount your experience, David, but I think you speak mostly for a US and possibly British context. In Germany, however, Latin is an absolute requirement. You cannot pursue a doctorate in Germany (which is tuition-free) without having a decent command of Latin. This demonstrates a real respect for the theologians that came before them, as well as granting them a tool for research into sources older than just a generation previous. Although I needed Latin for my dissertation topic, I've found it to be useful far beyond just the primary texts I was working with.
Keep up the study! I used "Latin via Ovid", but my daily practice now is reading from the Vulgate and/or Seneca.
I need to learn Latin so I can read my diploma, LOL!
Tavis: a favour, please. U work 4 FL, yet r nor quoting who U r responding to. Please quote to induce ease of understanding.
Now, I am curious: may I ask what it is?
That's my MDiv. diploma from Westminster Theological Seminary in CA.
Not to rain on your parade but as of today, a standard requirement for all doctoral students of biblical studies is a mastery of the following languages: Biblical Hebrew, Koine Greek, for obvious reasons; and German and French, because all of the major secondary literature is in either German or French (particularly true for the study of the DSS where French is the primary language used to discuss scrolls research). I personally found no need to learn Latin, and it certainly wasn't ever required of me. Having said that, a generation ago, they also required doctoral students of biblical studies to also have a mastery of Latin. This was because most of the classic commentaries (e.g. Bengel, Meyer, Alford, etc) were either written entirely in Latin, or they quoted Latin authors extensively with no complementary English translation parallel to the quotes. But as I said, because the world has moved on, this is no longer a requirement. Almost no one nowadays quotes authors in Latin. All in all, I would say if you want to study Patristics seriously, or want to seriously study one of the deuterocanonical or pseudepigraphic books which have been preserved primary in Latin (e.g. 5-6 Ezra or the Latin Vision of Ezra), then Latin is obviously a must-have. Other than that, I really don't see the point of learning it. The time spent learning Latin could be better spent learning other more useful things, such as for example, Aramaic, or Ethiopic (or to give it its correct name: Ge'er, as the most important deuterocanonical or pseudepigraphic books such as 1 Enoch or Jubilees have been principally preserved in Ethiopic).
Less than 15 years ago Latin and Greek were required subjects at secondary school if you wanted to go to university and study theology in the Netherlands. In my experience Latin was helpful (although not really necessary) during the classes on reformed theology.
Excellent! And thank you, Bill.
You’ve all missed the point of the post, it’s about getting you to sign up for the Oxford Latin Dictionary. The discussion about why you should learn Latin is just the pretext. Unfortunately I think it’s the wrong pretext to try and sell an academic dictionary on Latin. If it was a latin learning grammar along with supporting material which FL was trying to sell then the pretext presented would have more relevance IMHO. But enjoyed the article and banter here on forum all the same so thanks for the article.
I’d prefer not to have the pop-ups but I just dismiss them and move on, there are much more significant things in life that pop-up out of nowhere to be concerned about than a website pop-up, but that’s me.
[Y]
That's my MDiv. diploma from Westminster Theological Seminary in CA. Excellent! And thank you, Bill.
I got so sick of ads in my life (on TV, on the internet, on Youtube) that 3 years ago I decided enough was enough and so I went Ad-free in my life. I gave up watching live TV and now only stream Netflix and Amazon Prime. That got rid of the Ads on TV. I then installed an ad-blocker, and when the anti-adblocker web scripts started appearing, trying to force you to turn off your ad-blocker, I installed a good Anti-adblocker Killer (tempermonkey) to stop those measures dead in the water. That got rid of the Ads on websites. And I am so glad I did all this! I was not aware of it until it was all over, that my hatred for Ads was making me physically ill. I was really stressed out about them. Once I went ad-free, I discovered a relatively stress free life, and I now feel emotionally and spiritually more relaxed and happy. I would encourage others to do the same if the Ads drive them potty like they used to do to me.
Having said that, I am acutely aware that the vast majority of people do not share my rabid hatred of Ads. Most people take them in their stride, but for me it became a real bugbear. I don't know what that says about me, but there it is. It could be because I am a bit of a control freak, and having Ads invade my life as they do, I became aware of how powerless I was over them. Now, however, I control everything I watch. I watch what I like, when I like. No more being made a hostage to TV scheduling in order to follow my favourite programs. And, of course, no more pesky Ads to invade my viewing space every 5 minutes.
Do ad blockers stop you seeing free book offers such as the ones on
https://blog.lexhampress.com
Do ad blockers stop you seeing free book offers such as the ones on https://blog.lexhampress.com
Nope. Ads are coded differently than to things like free book offers.And its the type of code that Ads use that ad-blockers detect and "hide" from your view.
You’ve all missed the point of the post, it’s about getting you to sign up for the Oxford Latin Dictionary. The discussion about why you should learn Latin is just the pretext. Unfortunately I think it’s the wrong pretext to try and sell an academic dictionary on Latin. If it was a latin learning grammar along with supporting material which FL was trying to sell then the pretext presented would have more relevance IMHO.
Maybe we are forgetting the that blog is entitled: The Logos Academic Blog (emphasis on the academic). So of course Tavis and FL are going to be pushing more heavy-weight products.
You’ve all missed the point of the post, it’s about getting you to sign up for the Oxford Latin Dictionary. The discussion about why you should learn Latin is just the pretext.
Well, no offense, doc, but are you serious? As I understand the book business, and Logos in particular, the Oxford volume would have high royalties, and low demand. Tavis' selection merits him an 'F' on profit making. I'd bet Marketing folks were not happy campers. Maybe the old ICC volumes, but even they aren't likely big volume drivers.
The other curiousity (this thread) is (1) the studied indifference to Catholic customers, and (2) the studied avoidance of protestant recognition of the latin fathers, from whense protestant creedal foundations arrived.
Actually, I thought it was a pretty good pitch. I have a full-time (non-academic) job and I'm struggling to keep my Greek and Hebrew skills alive, so it's likely a bridge too far for me. But it did make me wish I had the time and opportunity to "pick up" Latin.
Awesome, I have learning Latin on my long term to do list. Not worried about learning it today, but down the road I will take it up.
You’ve all missed the point of the post, it’s about getting you to sign up for the Oxford Latin Dictionary. The discussion about why you should learn Latin is just the pretext. Unfortunately I think it’s the wrong pretext to try and sell an academic dictionary on Latin. If it was a latin learning grammar along with supporting material which FL was trying to sell then the pretext presented would have more relevance IMHO. Maybe we are forgetting the that blog is entitled: The Logos Academic Blog (emphasis on the academic). So of course Tavis and FL are going to be pushing more heavy-weight products.
Not forgotten at all Jordan. I had no concern with the product being advertised, I just think the article did not match up with the fact it’s a heavy-weight product. All I’m saying is If you are going to sell a heavy-weight product use a hook that is relative to the audience that is most likely to purchase said product.
No offence taken Denise, but I am serious. It you go fishing you have to use the right hook. Fishing is not always about the size of the catch, and when it comes to the book family of fish profits are pretty low in general according to Captain Pritchett of the good ship Logos. In this case fisherman Travis is doing the right thing by his fishing partners at Oxford in promoting this particular fish. I just think on this occasion the hook chosen is not the right one. Fact is even when it comes to seasoned fisherman on the odd Occassion they can use the wrong hook.
The other curiosities you raise are well worth raising.
You’ve all missed the point of the post, it’s about getting you to sign up for the Oxford Latin Dictionary. The discussion about why you should learn Latin is just the pretext. Well, no offense, doc, but are you serious? As I understand the book business, and Logos in particular, the Oxford volume would have high royalties, and low demand. Tavis' selection merits him an 'F' on profit making. I'd bet Marketing folks were not happy campers. Maybe the old ICC volumes, but even they aren't likely big volume drivers. The other curiousity (this thread) is (1) the studied indifference to Catholic customers, and (2) the studied avoidance of protestant recognition of the latin fathers, from whense protestant creedal foundations arrived.
Good article and comments at the bottom.
i had no concern about the quality of the pitch, I just think if you want to sell a heavy-weight academic dictionary write for the audience that is likely to buy that product. Someone with little or no Latin is more likely to purchase a learners Latin Grammer.
I saw this product + its price + gulped. I fall into doc's ''little or no'' category, + have a few E-Z Latin dictionaries, = enough.
I use these to help me with the Latin resources I have in my Library. I really need some classroom work to help with the process.
https://www.logos.com/product/3504/collins-latin-dictionary-and-grammar
https://www.logos.com/product/15716/dictionary-of-latin-forms
https://www.logos.com/product/29161/liturgical-press-reference-collection#003
https://www.logos.com/product/16014/lewis-and-shorts-latin-dictionary
Udemy and Great Courses (only purchase when on sale) offer some classroom type options. mEd via community pricing would be nice if it could get off the ground.
By the way, this is the resource I'm using to learn Latin. What are others using? I use these to help me with the Latin resources I have in my Library. I really need some classroom work to help with the process. https://www.logos.com/product/3504/collins-latin-dictionary-and-grammar https://www.logos.com/product/15716/dictionary-of-latin-forms https://www.logos.com/product/29161/liturgical-press-reference-collection#003 https://www.logos.com/product/16014/lewis-and-shorts-latin-dictionary
Indeed.
Thanks. Good stuff. I like that Latin is universal (meaning it's used across the west regardless of native language), I like that Latin has great influence on my native English (I bump into Latin phrases all the time), I like that it has been the language of the church for over 1,000 years, that many of the greatest Christian theologians taught in it (from Tertullian to Luther), and I like that Latin was the first common language translated from the Greek for the everyday man to read. Granted, it was then high-jacked by the Catholic church...leading to Tyndale's ploughman translation...then the reformation etc. I also like that Latin is 'Dead' because it won't be evolving, but yet 'Never Going To Die' because it's roots are too deeply set in Western Culture and Western Christianity.
I'm also using Familia Romana by Orberg in Logos. THIS is the ultimate Latin learning book because for the reasons stated above it works regardless of the learners native tongue and will never be outdated. And it's also nice to learn using the Latin Vulgate.
Deus benedicat tibi
I like that it has been the language of the church for over 1,000 years, that many of the greatest Christian theologians taught in it (from Tertullian to Luther), and I like that Latin was the first common language translated from the Greek for the everyday man to read.
Well, Guy, we can pretty well conclude you're 'western' oriented (vs the eastern church), and clergy-oriented (the vernacular being all those languages that everyday people spoke). Like maybe ..... english. Ironically, our house has a chapel used for latin services during an earlier pope's 'vernacular'!!
But more seriously, I've always thought, when Paul went thru Galatia, the bulk of (everyday) folks could barely understand him. Language is interesting.
Now, if Logos could expand its support of the early latin Biblical manuscripts.
