My Initial Review

Jerry Bush
Jerry Bush Member Posts: 1,124 ✭✭✭
edited November 21 in English Forum

Get a cup of coffee if you want to read all of this...












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The following are my initial impressions of V4. I have
intentionally avoided reading other opinions so that mine are not influenced.

Ribbon-style
Menus/Rest of the Top

The ribbon
concept is awesome! Very intuitive. I have never used ribbons before, although
I know of them in Office 2007. Have only seen screen shots of those. I assume
this is similar. Much more simple to use and gets me to where I want to go more
quickly.

I really like the Home/Library/Search
buttons
together up there. I have been using Logos for 8+ years and still
never could remember what each icon stood for on my cluttered V3 bar.

The shortcut box
works great and is very good at guessing what I want. However, when I open
something, it sends it to a tab. I understand the thinking, but what if I
prefer it to open to a window? I would like this option. I have figured out how
to drag it out of a tab into its own window on my own, but I would like the
option to do it right away, without taking away the option of the default behavior.
Not saying the option is not there, but I have not found it.

Not a huge WORDsearch fan, but when you open something in
there, it snaps it into a new window and resizes everything. That all being
said, I might simply need to get used to the tab thing.  More on tabs below, and as you will read - I really
like tabs.

Moving to the right, after the shortcut box, there is blank space. Something needs to go
there or it is just wasted.

Then there is the sync
icon
. I like it and like to know when Logos is syncing. It seems to phone
home quite often while I am working. Good thing, because I trust Logos. I am in
love with the fact that my computers will stay synced. No more updating
resources manually!

 

The Layouts button.
Great improvement that needs some more improvement. This is a giant leap
forward in the layout function. I LOVE the fact that it remembers recent
layouts. I LOVE the different choices on the bottom right. I seem to have
trouble dragging things the way I want them. For instance, say I have the "2x2
(four equal panes)" look, but when I click it I want to move stuff around. I
can't get the hang of making stay 2x2. The program thinks I want to do
something different like have something long-ways or whatever. After I select
2x2, that's the way I want it to stay.

At first, it was not intuitive to be able to name and save a layout. I figured out how, but
say I want to save and name the current layout. I have not figured that out,
except to open a different layout, right click on the one I just left, and then
name it, finally coming back to it. I don't understand why I cannot name the
"now" layout and save it.

One other thing about saving layouts; I want to be able to
reorder my named layouts. Say I eventually come up with 10. I want to be able
to drag my favorite to the top, etc.

In what might be a bug, when
I change layouts
, the entire program resizes for a moment, changes layouts,
and then resizes full again. There is a bit of a delay when changing, especially
when it does this particular thing. It is an annoyance.

One last thing on layouts. Sometimes it seems the program
knows I want everything to move together, i.e. all recourses are linked
together. If I move to Hebrews 4, everything follows. Other times, they are not
linked. Am I missing something here?

The blue bar at
the top is kind of a waste of space. I know I am using Logos Bible Software 4,
so that it not really needed, at least taking up that much space to tell me.
The minimize, resize, and close buttons are welcome so please keep them. But
they could be incorporated in the space below by moving the sync and layouts
button to the left and then put them to the right of those.

The Help button
is pretty basic, and I can't think of anything else that needs to go there.

"Newspaper" Home
Page

Mixed. I liked it at first sight, but as I continued, it
feels a bit cluttered. I think it needs some tweaking. The main thing I want is
the ability to turn things on and off, and the ability to close something permanently
once I have read it or decided I am not interested. For instance, the first
thing on my page right now is the blog entry "The Twittering Pastor." I read
that on the blog and I don't need to see it every time I open my software. So
far, I have not found a way to make it go away. So I am stuck with it until
Logos decides it should not be there anymore. I really dislike that.

I think after awhile, I will probably want the program to
open to my favorite layout and I will not use the newspaper page. But if it was
more customizable, I might change my mind.

There is a lot of wasted space above the different newspaper
feeds. I don't care either way if my email is showing up there, although that
does tell me I am properly logged on. I love the enter passage or topic/go
button. It is a great place to explore, and for new users, an absolute must.
But back to the wasted space: The Logos logo is up there, plus my email and the
Go button. Make the Logos thing a little smaller, move the Go button up and to
the right, next to the logo, and drop my email indicator underneath the logo.

Moving to the right, once I have chosen my preferred Bible,
I don't need to see that every time. It needs to go away, although accessible
later. Same with the reading plan. At this time, I don't use Logos to plan my
reading, although I may in the future. But for now, all of that is just a waste
of space. I would like to be able to put something else there myself, of just
make it go away. There does seem to be a faint arrow at the far right, but
clicking on it doesn't do anything.

Going back to my wasted space described in my section on
shortcuts, I would love for the Go box and button to always be available. It
could go to the right of shortcuts. I don't like having to come back to the
newspaper to get to my Go button. Even though I have become more proficient in
V3, I still use the Go button quite often. I would love to have constant access
to it. As it is, I have to go back to the newspaper, and for today at least, I
have to see the "Twittering Pastor" headline for the 20th time.

Update: I began writing this on Friday night, and got too
sleepy too finish. Now on Saturday morning, the "Twitter" headline has moved,
but is still there. Now on the top right is "Wrestling with the Verses" which I
have also read - a couple of days ago on the blog.

A final thought on the newspaper home page. So far, it seems
mostly like a big advertisement for Logos. I buy lots of stuff from you and
will continue to do so. When I want to study, I want to study - not go
shopping.

The Go Box/Button
Function

As I said, I am a fan of this. I think it is vital for new
users and I still use it myself. I like that the passage guide and Exegetical
Guide are tabbed for easy switching; Fabulous!

Regarding the Passage
Guide
, it seems pretty similar in function to V3 with some notable
additions. I do like being able to save and name that passage guide. Not sure
if I will use that or not, but I might. I like the fact that if there are no
hits for that Bible reference, the option is grayed out. Now I won't waste my
time looking for something that is not there. For instance, I randomly ran
James 3.3. Biblical People is grayed out, among other things. This is very
helpful and a time-saver. The fact that I can remove some sections is great.
That might get me to use the save and name function. If nothing else, I can zap
out what I don't want to look at

What I would really love is the ability to permanently turn
off certain sections. Maybe I can but have not found out how yet. For example,
I will probably never use the Sermon Central thing; Just a personal choice. I
would love to never see it again. I have messed around in the templates
section, but the options don't seem to take. If I zap something, it is there
again when I use the passage guide again.

In the Exegetical
Guide
, ditto to the ability to save and name. This is just a annoyance to
me, but where did the word "apparatus" come from? That is simply weird and
confusing to me, so I think it would be even more so to a new user.

Sometimes only a few "apparatus" titles come up, and other
times dozens. Bug or something I am missing? I don't know.

So far, not much is coming up in the Exegetical Guide for
me. Nothing at all in the Word By Word section - it is always grayed out. The
Guide has also crashed a few times on me. This is a review, so I won't do the
log file thing. I will report that separately to make thing simpler for Logos.
So far, the Exegetical Guide is the only thing that has caused a crash, and it
has done so several times.

Button Functions

The Home button
does not do anything for me except toggle between the newspaper page and
whatever layout I last had open. The only reason I need to use it is to get
back to the GO box/button.

The Library
button; the Library is MUCH improved over v3. Great job. For some reason, I
really like the book cover icons here and throughout the program. I know it is psychological,
but I feel like I am really searching for and looking at a book.

I like the little x in the search box to clear my current
search. I like the rankings concept. If I click rankings, however I want the
program to remember that is the way I want it until I change it again. It seems
to default back to the title sort. As I move away from collections and get used
to rankings, I can easily see how I would want this to be my default view.
Clicking on the stars does not do anything. I suppose this is not functional in
beta 1 and will be in the future. I like the prioritize option as well.

I am guessing that the more I use ratings and priorities,
etc. the better the program will get at knowing what I am after. I really like
that idea. Great job! Curious as to where the default rankings come from. Or
maybe I am not understanding this correctly.

Just discovered something: I dragged the IVP Background Commentary
NT over to the Priority list. It automatically brought over the OT and combined
into one entry - fabulous! I brought over a volume from the Preacher's
Commentary and it listed one entry/35 volumes - perfect!

I wanted to put this
somewhere in my review, and this seems like a good place:


I have for years wanted an easy way to
delete resources
. I don't want to simply hide them or prioritize them to
the bottom. I want to zap them off my hard drive, and now, my index file. I do
not speak Spanish, so the Spanish Bible is just in my way; I don't want to see
it again. I have no use for the sermon illustration books, because I only use
illustrations that happened to me or someone I know. I don't want the women's
study bible because well, I'm a guy. But all of those resources came with a
package I bought along the way so I am stuck with them. There were ways to get
rid of them in v3, and I am sure the same can be done in v4 - but it is a huge pain.

I really want to
streamline my Bibles. If I could, I would probably pair it down to 5-6
translations. I probably have 15 or more.

Unless I have not found the function yet, please please
please give this to us!

One last thing on the Library. I don't know how to keep it
open as I could before when using the button. I can do it by hitting Ctrl+L
though. I prefer it that way.

The Search button
has a major leap forward hiding under it - thank you! When I click it, it goes
into one of my windows as a tab; I like that. I will probably keep it in the
layout, but it is just as easy to hit my button. My different kinds of searches
are right there, instead of having to open and re-open

However, let's say I have two Bibles open. So far, it tabs
to the window in the upper left. If I have a second Bible open in a different
window, I would like to be able to send the search over there. Not a big deal,
but it would be nice.

When I do a Bible search, say in three translations, some of
the hits have solid color boxes, and some have white boxes with a colored
border This has not become clear to me as to why. I can probably figure it out,
but I am saying that it is not obvious to me.

I like the grid/verses/aligned options right there and how
fast they are. Speaking of speed...

Obviously, because of indexing, this thing is Google-fast. I
was never one to complain about the speed because in v3, I always compared it
to how long it would take me if I did the searching by hand. Hours vs. 20
seconds? No contest. But now it is 20 seconds vs. .08 seconds? Again, no
contest. Wow!

I just went back to v3 and did the same search. I love you
v3, but we have to break up now. Have a nice life.

Moving along, the File
button has some interesting potential for me. Clippings sound like something I
will really use, though I have not played with it yet. Handouts, if they work
the way I think they will and can be exported to word for formatting, will be a
welcome addition. If Handouts are going the way I think they are, I will never
ask for another update to Lesson Builder again. J

I like that I can choose the option on the left, and save
things on the right. Very easy to learn. I don't like that the Bible Word
puzzle come up, because it is something I will never use. Similar to my
deleting resources, I would like to at least be able to hide this thing, or
anything else I will never use. I like simple.

The Guide button.
I don't really have much to say about it, except that I like it a lot. It makes
it easier to get to my guides, which is what is supposed to do. I have not
messed with the custom option at all, but it seems like a good idea. I just
need to learn what I can do with it. Seems cool, though.

The Tools button
looks great as well. I will probably be in the minority in this, but I like the
new way collections are handled and have no need to import my old ones. And
yes, I spent hours doing them. I like this way better.

I like the idea of a history
option, but I probably won't use it myself. If there is something I want to
save for the future, I will save it. But it might be useful for some people,
and who knows - maybe I will end up using it once I play with it a little.

I really like the concept of the Bible Facts option, but I cannot comment on it because it says the
required resources are not available. So I will have to wait for another beta.
I encourage Logos to implement this however; it looks like something I would
use all the time.

The program settings
option is much more streamlined. Some people will hate this, and some will like
it. For me, I give it a thumbs up, but wishing for a couple of things. Can you
guess what is first on my list? An option to zap resources!

While I am back on that subject, I don't like that in v3, I
had locked resources taking up room on my drive. If I want it, I'll buy it. Please don't make me store it anymore.
Maybe that is already under the hood - I have not figured out how to look.

I will have to take some more time to look at the other
options. I took a peek at the Copy Bible verses, and it looks good. This is a
very important function to me, so I hope it functions the same as v3 with some
improvements.

Miscellaneous

I think the tab
functions are great, except for one thing: I would much prefer to have an x on
each tab to close them, rather than over to the right. This seems
counter-intuitive to me. Another idea is to utilize a double-click to close. I
do this in Firefox though the TabMix Plus extension. Otherwise, fantastic!
Thank you Logos, for tabs.

Good job on the slider
bar
to increase/decrease font size in an individual recourse. Or is it
apparatus? It must have been a late night of programming. J

The new reverse
interlinear
has me confused. I have no original language training, so when
v3 came out, it was a literal God-send to me. I can't seem to get the hang of
the new way. I will keep at it, but if the philosophy is "it just works," then
I think it needs a re-look. Or maybe I am thinking too much v3 because that is
what I am used to.

Overall, the beta has exceeded my expectations. On my 5-year
old, but relatively fast laptop, things are kind of slow. On the other two test
machines, I find myself wanting to open the program even when I don't want to
do work. Probably because it is a new toy. But still...

With version three, I had to go to a seminar, watch videos,
and read the newsgroup to learn the thing. Maybe I could have done more, but I
never felt like I learned it enough to use its full potential. With v4, I think
I can get there mostly on my own in a fairly short time. I already think I have
a basic handle on the thing.

I know I did not cover every single thing. Some I have not
looked at, and the word count is up to over 3,000 words already in this review.
For anyone who has made it this far, you have a longer attention span than I
do. This was all written for the benefit of Logos anyway.

Than being said, if you can help me with anything I am
missing or am confused with - I am listening. Again, I have purposely not read
other reviews and impressions too much so I could give an unbiased perspective.  I realize some of my answers may be contained
in the forums. Speaking of which, there is so much activity going on, it is
hard to keep up with. But that is for another discussion.

Logos, you have amazed me again. Sure, I'm a fan-boy, but at
least I admit it. But I am a fan-boy for a good reason: Logos continues to be
innovative and makes the best software there is. Looking forward to future
betas and the finished product!

But PLEASE let me zap out stuff. Please?

Jerry

 

iMac (2019 model), 3Ghz 6 Core Intel i5, 16gb Ram, Radeon Pro Graphics. 500GB SSD.

Tagged:

Comments

  • Jacob Carpenter (Faithlife)
    Jacob Carpenter (Faithlife) Member, Logos Employee Posts: 335

    Get a cup of coffee if you want to read all of this...

    If you insist. :)

  • Jacob Carpenter (Faithlife)
    Jacob Carpenter (Faithlife) Member, Logos Employee Posts: 335

    First of all, thank you for the thoughtful and detailed review. It was a great Saturday morning read.

    I don't have time to respond directly to all of your concerns, but I do want to assure you they are heard. This is an exciting time for us at Logos, and there's much enthusiasm about following what you guys think about the new software.

    But I do want to try and clarify a few things:

    Command bar and Shortcuts

    Moving to the right, after the shortcut box, there is blank space. Something needs to go there or it is just wasted.

    What you're calling the shortcut box is the command bar. There is some faint grey text in the box that says "Command". The text may be too subtle to notice; a lot of users have complained about the app looking washed out. I'm sure we'll be adding some contrast all over the app.

    Anyway, back to shortcuts. The text to the right of the box says "Shortcuts", and if you hover over it there is a tip that states, "Drag resources or tabs here to create shortcuts." That text is somewhat misleading, though. You can drag practically anything in the app to that bar to create a shortcut! Now you can fill up that space with buttons for your favorite books, layouts, guides, tools... pretty much anything!

    (There are a couple of subtle differences to resource shortcuts: if you drag from the library, the shortcut will open the book to where you left it; if you drag from an open tab, the resource will always open to the same location.)

    The shortcut box works great and is very good at guessing what I want. However, when I open something, it sends it to a tab. I understand the thinking, but what if I prefer it to open to a window? I would like this option.

    In the command bar, you can say "open esv in new window". It's a little verbose, but you have the option.

    Layouts and Link Sets

    I don't understand why I cannot name the "now" layout and save it.

    You should be able to click the text "Snapshot | (some time)" under the "now" layout to name/save it.

    Sometimes it seems the program knows I want everything to move together, i.e. all recourses are linked together.

    This is controlled by "Link sets" on the panel menu. With a book open, click upper left button (with the book's cover on it). There should be some letters next to the text "Link set". All of the panels that have the same letter set will stay synchronized.

    Library

    I like the rankings concept. If I click rankings, however I want the program to remember that is the way I want it until I change it again. It seems to default back to the title sort.

    I think you're referring to the rank column in details view of the library. This column only appears when you have a search entered, and only applies to how well the resource matched your text. The reason your sort order is getting lost is the column disappears when you clear your search. This is a usability issue that we'll look into.

    As a possible workaround, the tile view (click the "View" button in library) will always sort by rank when a search is entered (or by title when there is no search).

    One last thing on the Library. I don't know how to keep it open as I could before when using the button. I can do it by hitting Ctrl+L though. I prefer it that way.

    Yes, Ctrl+L opens library in a floating window. Alternatively, you can just drag the button to put it where you want it as a new tab.

    Closing

    I just went back to v3 and did the same search. I love you v3, but we have to break up now. Have a nice life.

    I laughed out loud when I read this. Thanks.

    Than being said, if you can help me with anything I am missing or am confused with - I am listening.

    I hope some of these suggestions in my reply help you.

    Thanks again for taking the time to share such a detailed and thoughtful review.

  • David Housholder
    David Housholder Member Posts: 113 ✭✭

    Good job on the slider bar to increase/decrease font size in an individual recourse.

    I haven't seen a slider bar as yet; where did you find it?

  • Bob Pritchett
    Bob Pritchett Member, Logos Employee Posts: 2,280

    I haven't seen a slider bar as yet; where did you find it?

    Click the resource panel menu (the book cover in the upper left when a resource is open) and it's the first thing on the menu.

  • TCBlack
    TCBlack Member Posts: 10,978
    David,
    left click the book icon when reading a resource. The slider is first in line.

    Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

  • David Housholder
    David Housholder Member Posts: 113 ✭✭

    Click the resource panel menu (the book cover in the upper left when a resource is open) and it's the first thing on the menu.

    It must be 15 years ago we playe Myst as a family and I learned the basic principle of "Click on everything." I knew that book cover icon was there but didn't try clicking it <sigh>. But now I know. New options I hadn't realized before. Thanks.

    Now sometime I'll figure out what "sympathetic highlighting" is on "Visual Filters"

     

  • Clinton Thomas
    Clinton Thomas Member Posts: 465

    The text may be too subtle to notice; a lot of users have complained about the app looking washed out. I'm sure we'll be adding some contrast all over the app.

    woo hoo!

    Thanks!

  • Damian McGrath
    Damian McGrath Member Posts: 3,051 ✭✭✭

    Ctrl+L opens library in a floating window.

     

    Is there a reason why this has been designed to open the library in a new window and not in a tab in the main program. I would have though ctrl+L = open library in main window. ctrl+shift+L = open in new window.

    Either way: any chance of a keyboard shortcut to open the library in a tab?

  • TCBlack
    TCBlack Member Posts: 10,978

    It must be 15 years ago we playe Myst as a family and I learned the basic principle of "Click on everything."

    I generally don't play video games on principle, but I sure did love playing the Myst series!

    Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you.