Other theological dictionaries in searches?
Dictionaries like the new OT dictionaries and the one of Jesus and Gospels doesn't seem to show up with the other "normal" dictionaries. Just wondering how to incorporate them in searches (up top)?
On the same note, those dictionaries don't seem to have entries or heading as search fields, how do you access the information across them easily and efficiently?
Thanks in advance,
Edwin
Comments
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EdwinKwok said:
Just wondering how to incorporate them in searches (up top)?
Unfortunately you can't. Logos has chosen which dictionaries appear and has set them up them to allow this.
EdwinKwok said:those dictionaries don't seem to have entries or heading as search fields
This seems correct and would reflect the sad state of heading searching in Logos. Neither of these works (nor the New Testament ones by IVP) are searchable by heading.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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EdwinKwok said:
On the same note, those dictionaries don't seem to have entries or heading as search fields, how do you access the information across them easily and efficiently?
As Mark has explained, at present they are not indexed by heading, so the best you can do for now is have a vague idea of which volume you want to look something up in, open it and then open its Table of Contents pane and navigate directly to the heading (if that topic exists in the dictionary) that way:
It's kind of no better than looking it up in the print-based resource (except that you can copy/paste from there, and there are a few hyperlinks in the text). I hope Logos makes these dictionaries more easily searchable; that's supposed to be one of the main points of having them in electronic format!
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The best way to search all the dictionaries for an entry, is to find the entry for one dictionary, then click the plus tab. You'll get a windows with two columns. The smaller, right-hand column will contain all the other dictionaries that share that entry. In Logos 4.0b, due soon, you'll also be able to use parallel resource associations to achieve the same effect.
If you're interested in why things are the way they are, this old thread, and particularly this post from Logos employee Sean Boisen explain why.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark, what pane is that? I have yet to see a plus sign like that.
Edwin
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Prov. 15:23
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Mark Barnes said:
If you're interested in why things are the way they are, this old thread, and particularly this post from Logos employee Sean Boisen explain why.
Just to sprinkle in a bit of hope:
- We hope to roll out heading-specific search in the near future. We know how to do it technically: the major issue at this point is that changing books and journals to support it will require a large download-and-reindex cycle, and we know people don't always like those [:S] But it's coming: it's just a matter of how soon.
- We have several additional dictionaries nearing readiness for inclusion in the Topics/Look it Up section, and we're staffing up to get the rest of the important ones completed this year.
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Sean Boisen said:
Just to sprinkle in a bit of hope:
- We hope to roll out heading-specific search in the near future. We know how to do it technically: the major issue at this point is that changing books and journals to support it will require a large download-and-reindex cycle, and we know people don't always like those
But it's coming: it's just a matter of how soon. - We have several additional dictionaries nearing readiness for inclusion in the Topics/Look it Up section, and we're staffing up to get the rest of the important ones completed this year.
Thanks for the update. Looking forward to it.
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
0 - We hope to roll out heading-specific search in the near future. We know how to do it technically: the major issue at this point is that changing books and journals to support it will require a large download-and-reindex cycle, and we know people don't always like those
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Sean,
That's great news. I have my update channel set to beta in anticipation!
Mark
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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I would have thought the IVP Dictionaries which were just released would have been searchable. Are these slated for editing to allow inclusion in topical searches?
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Rosie Perera said:
As Mark has explained, at present they are not indexed by heading, so the best you can do for now is have a vague idea of which volume you want to look something up in, open it and then open its Table of Contents pane and navigate directly to the heading (if that topic exists in the dictionary) that way:
While we haven't yet implemented the field searching on headings that Sean speaks of, these dictionaries are indexed by headword, so you can find articles and navigate using the active index box:
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Is there a way of finding out which books are searchable before buying? If I would have known the IVP OT were not searchable I wouldnt have bought them.
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Jason,
The IVP OT is searchable, you just can't search for topics. On the other hand, you can browse for topics. Can you explain what you're trying to do that you can't do?
Mark
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Ron Barry said:
I would have thought the IVP Dictionaries which were just released would have been searchable. Are these slated for editing to allow inclusion in topical searches?
Yes, they are.
Here are the dictionaries that are currently included:
- ISBE
- Anchor-Yale
Bible Dictionary - New Bible Dictionary
- Eerdmans Bible Dictionary
- Eerdmans Dictionary
of the Bible - Baker Encyclopedia of the Bible
- Tyndale Bible Dictionary
Those already in the pipeline for release:
- Nelson's New Illustrated Bible Dictionary
- Harper's Bible Dictionary
- Archaeological Encyclopedia of the Holy Land
Virtually all the subject-oriented resources we have (Bible dictionaries, encyclopedias, etc.) are slated for inclusion: it just takes time.
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Jason Rogers said:
Is there a way of finding out which books are searchable before buying?
All resources are searchable by surface text (all the words the resource contains). Some resources can be searched by footnote or other feature. That is not something that you can learn ahead of time. I suppose Logos could make a way to get that info ahead of time.
Jason Rogers said:If I would have known the IVP OT were not searchable I wouldnt have bought them.
Logos has been working on making searching by the headwords or subject headings for Logos 4 for some time now. As Sean Boisen pointed out we should expect that capability shortly.
You can search for any word you want in your IVP Dictionaries. You just can't limit your search at this point to the article headings. This is just like other dictionaries you may already have in Logos 4.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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Sean Boisen said:
Those already in the pipeline for release:
Sean it is good we are getting these improvements.
I wonder if you would comment on a search for the phrase "seven words":-
The Topic section shows
- seven words, the in Eerdmans Bible Dictionary
- seven words, the in New Bible Dictionary (NBD), and
- seven last sayings of Jesus in Tyndale Bible Dictionary
In 4.0b Beta only Eerdmans and NBD appear in a Parallel Resource list, but the Library results show the topic "seven words from the cross" in Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary and Parallel Resources includes Harper's Bible Dictionary and Nelson's New Illustrated Bible Dictionary. If I search for "seven words from the cross" there are no Topics!
Q1. Do I have to rely on the inclusion of "seven words from the cross" as an alternate search for "seven words"?
Q2. Do I also have to wait for Harper's and Nelson's to be released as you describe?
Q3. Will it be possible to search for "seven words+" as a Topic to avoid the dependency on alternate searches ie. all topics that begin with "seven words"?
I use the plus + out of necessity to differentiate it from a normal wildcard search.
thanks,
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
Q1. Do I have to rely on the inclusion of "seven words from the cross" as an alternate search for "seven words"?
Q2. Do I also have to wait for Harper's and Nelson's to be released as you describe?
Q3. Will it be possible to search for "seven words+" as a Topic to avoid the dependency on alternate searches ie. all topics that begin with "seven words"?
I use the plus + out of necessity to differentiate it from a normal wildcard search.
A1. In the short term, the only foolproof way to find the "Seven Last Sayings of Jesus" concept is to search one of the terms associated with it (in your example, that's "Seven Last Sayings of Jesus" OR "The Seven Last Words" OR "The Seven Words" OR "Seven Words"). It's clear we ought to add "seven words from the cross" as well, but until we do, that string won't match the concept.
A2. At present, the only foolproof way to find a non-LCV dictionary article is to know what it's called (that's one reason we're building the LCV). So yes, until Harper's and Nelson's are released as LCV dictionaries, they won't work the way i described.
A3. I don't think adding wildcard search is the right approach to expanding the set of alternate terms: they're still too technical for most people. And partial matching (against 11k concepts) easily returns too much. Instead, our plan is both to expand the alternate terms ourselves, and to draw on user contributions at topics.logos.com to grow the list (though that's not happening yet).
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For the benefit of those who haven't been following this discussion since November, LCV stands for (I think) Logos Controlled Vocabulary. The basic idea is that Logos builds a database of synonyms for topics, so that if, for example, I search for Donkey Logos knows that I could also want information on Ass.
(On a sidenote, when I typed "donkey" into Logos Search, one of the suggestions was "donkeypopefart". My first thought was an anti-catholic intern had beat the system, but the word actually comes from my "The Rhetoric of the Reformation"!)
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:
For the benefit of those who haven't been following this discussion since November, LCV stands for (I think) Logos Controlled Vocabulary.
Thanks! You read my mind. I was wondering that. I guessed Logos Concept something-or-other, because I've heard the word "concepts" used in talking about this database (Sean mentioned "concepts" three times in his post). But a search for LCV and "Logos Concept" on the forums came up nil.
Mark Barnes said:(On a sidenote, when I typed "donkey" into Logos Search, one of the suggestions was "donkeypopefart". My first thought was an anti-catholic intern had beat the system, but the word actually comes from my "The Rhetoric of the Reformation"!)
LOL [:)] Now where are the users wanting that to be censored from the vocabulary list for delicate eyes... Maybe there should be a rating system for the resources like there is for movies, so people don't accidentally buy something that might be offensive to them.
Oh, that Luther! And if you go to the text in question and hover over the footnote at the end of the sentence to find out where it comes from, you see that it isn't even the worst he wrote. Amusing that the footnote-writer felt it necessary to direct people where to find the crudest language in Luther's Works. Sorry, I'm not going to join in helping you find it. If you're that curious, you'll have to buy The Rhetoric of the Reformation, and then Luther's Works (which I don't have and am not buying just for this even though I admit I am curious).
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<hijack thread>
It looks like that the translator of that particular work of Luther had a job with the translation! I think it's from volume 41 of his English works. Personally I was surprised to find the word in such an old book. If you thought likewise, this makes more interesting reading that you might expect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fart
</hijack>
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:
Seems the human race has had a long obsession with that particular aspect of our digestive systems. Apparently the iPhone fart apps are pretty popular (and yes, there are more than one of them...try 50!).
Someone didn't do a very good job fixing up the OCR problems in Spurgeon's sermons, as it seems he talks about Farts more than one would expect. [:)]
"You that have Bibles with margins, just look at them. You will find that the second Fart of the text is put in the margin thus..." (from Spurgeon's Sermons: Volume 15)
"It was an act of grace on his Fart — an act purely gratuitous." (from Spurgeon's Sermons: Volume 59)
I'll report the typos.
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Thanks to Logos, I now know how the Akkadian and Arabic equivalents (ṣarātu and ʾaḍraṭa if you're interested). The art of serendipitous discovery I think they call it.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Oops, I had "Find all word forms" off, so I missed a few typos. Here's another good one, from The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah:
"the later command to the servants to ‘bring the calf, the farted one..."And here's another good one, from Spurgeon's Sermons:
Was not that a most gracious utterance? "I will not send them away fasting" What confidence the disciples ought to have had that the people could be fed, and would be fed, when the Master gave that solemn promise, "I will not send them away farting, lest they faint in the way."Yes, too much farting could indeed induce fainting. [:P]
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And another hit led to some more interesting serendipity. I was already beginning to think of Monty Python's "I fart in your general direction" with all of this, so amusing that MP was mentioned in a Logos resource.
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Rosie Perera said:
Oops, I had "Find all word forms" off, so I missed a few typos. Here's another good one, from The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah:
"the later command to the servants to ‘bring the calf, the farted one..."And here's another good one, from Spurgeon's Sermons:
Was not that a most gracious utterance? "I will not send them away fasting" What confidence the disciples ought to have had that the people could be fed, and would be fed, when the Master gave that solemn promise, "I will not send them away farting, lest they faint in the way."Yes, too much farting could indeed induce fainting.
Don't do this while I'm drinking coffee! That's not the way I want to get my sinuses cleaned out. [:D]
Thanks for the laughs.
πάντα εἰς δόξαν θεοῦ ποιεῖτε
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I'm re-hijacking this thread to bring it back on topic to address Mike Binks' concern with the status of the LCV, which was raised on this thread.
Mike Binks said:Louis St. Hilaire said:The list of dictionary articles is separate--being generated from Logos Controlled Vocabulary entries. ZEB hasn't been tagged with LCV yet, so it's not yet in this list.
On the above mention thread I expressed concern that the advertising for the Zondervan Collection contains the line,
'Titles integrate into custom search reports, Passage Guides, Exegetical Guides, and the other advanced features of Logos Bible Software.'
No mention was made of the fact that some of the tagging was incomplete or even waiting to be started.
I knew my library was short of Dictionaries and the Zondervan Collection, which cost a considerable amount of money, was meant to address this shortage. I think that my assumption that it would was reasonable in the light of the promotional material published by Logos. I am bitterly disappointed with the information you have given me in your reply.
Please will you try and ascertain from your colleagues when this product is likely to match the specifications it was advertised as meeting?
Your faithfully
Mike Binks
I'll forward your concern to Sean Boisen. The LCV is a very specialized feature, at this point limited to only a few dictionaries. It's a rather involved project that does not just require adding tagging to the resource but integration of the resource's headings into the vocabulary.
I think this may be a case of (rather generic) pre-Logos4 copy, but, now that we've raised expectations for Bible dictionaries, your dispointment is understandable.
Sean would have to provide more specific information, but if the eventual plan is to get all appropriate resources into it, then, in the future, I would expect that we'll be factoring the additional time and cost for doing so into the production of new Bible dictionaries from the beginning. If, on the other hand, LCV will remain more limited, then we'll have to be a bit more clear about this.
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Louis St. Hilaire said:
The LCV is a very specialized feature, at this point limited to only a few dictionaries. It's a rather involved project that does not just require adding tagging to the resource but integration of the resource's headings into the vocabulary.
I think this may be a case of (rather generic) pre-Logos4 copy, but, now that we've raised expectations for Bible dictionaries, your dispointment is understandable.
Sean would have to provide more specific information, but if the eventual plan is to get all appropriate resources into it, then, in the future, I would expect that we'll be factoring the additional time and cost for doing so into the production of new Bible dictionaries from the beginning. If, on the other hand, LCV will remain more limited, then we'll have to be a bit more clear about this.
Unlike others, this is my biggest disappointment with Logos4. In addition to the dictionaries yet to be tagged, the LCV excludes historical terms, theological terms, personal names, and other technical terms, which means that my historical, theological, and biographical dictionaries are excluded by default from topic searches (not to mention, my Columbia Encyclopedia and English dictionaries). I have to use a basic search for those. I'm hoping some of those will eventually be included in the topic search results.
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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Louis St. Hilaire said:
I'll forward your concern to Sean Boisen. The LCV is a very specialized feature, at this point limited to only a few dictionaries. It's a rather involved project that does not just require adding tagging to the resource but integration of the resource's headings into the vocabulary.
I think this may be a case of (rather generic) pre-Logos4 copy, but, now that we've raised expectations for Bible dictionaries, your dispointment is understandable.
Sean would have to provide more specific information, but if the eventual plan is to get all appropriate resources into it, then, in the future, I would expect that we'll be factoring the additional time and cost for doing so into the production of new Bible dictionaries from the beginning. If, on the other hand, LCV will remain more limited, then we'll have to be a bit more clear about this.
Please try to bump up the priority/urgency of this LCV work. It's one of the most common disappointments with Logos we see on the forums. People remembering the old L3 topic browser and wanting to be able to do something like that in L4, people wanting a quick way to search for headwords in dictionaries and encyclopedias, etc. I understand that it's a huge amount of work, but it is one of the core features of Logos, so it needs to be done soon.
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Louis St. Hilaire said:
The LCV is a very specialized feature, at this point limited to only a few dictionaries.
I, too, had hoped that the LCV would broaden more rapidly. It rather discourages me from updating the topic section of topics.logos.com. If one goes through only a small segment of the Jewish Encyclopedia, one can see that the controlled vocabulary needs considerable expansion. I am quite willing to be patient in that I know it takes time and coordination but I would like to see some measure of progress. And, yes, I recognize that there may be significant progress being made that isn't immediately visible.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Rosie Perera said:Louis St. Hilaire said:
I'll forward your concern to Sean Boisen. The LCV is a very specialized feature, at this point limited to only a few dictionaries. It's a rather involved project that does not just require adding tagging to the resource but integration of the resource's headings into the vocabulary.
I think this may be a case of (rather generic) pre-Logos4 copy, but, now that we've raised expectations for Bible dictionaries, your dispointment is understandable.
Sean would have to provide more specific information, but if the eventual plan is to get all appropriate resources into it, then, in the future, I would expect that we'll be factoring the additional time and cost for doing so into the production of new Bible dictionaries from the beginning. If, on the other hand, LCV will remain more limited, then we'll have to be a bit more clear about this.
Please try to bump up the priority/urgency of this LCV work. It's one of the most common disappointments with Logos we see on the forums. People remembering the old L3 topic browser and wanting to be able to do something like that in L4, people wanting a quick way to search for headwords in dictionaries and encyclopedias, etc. I understand that it's a huge amount of work, but it is one of the core features of Logos, so it needs to be done soon.
Here's a thread that has a lot of feedback on it from lots of people who miss the Topic Browser and are anxious for similar functionality to be available in L4:
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