Here's a helpful article about the costs & math of publishing in the digital world.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/01/business/media/01ebooks.html?pagewanted=1&em
Quite an interesting article Mike, the only addendum I would make for Logos users is that there is an order of magnitude difference in the preparation of an Etext verses a Logos book.
An etext is little more than raw text with some formatting (bold, italics, font size for titles and chapter headings, etc.. maybe font - I'm not sure how kindle works regarding fonts.)
Based on posts from Logos all way back to the News Group days and my own deficient understanding of what's going on with the XML core of the books...
A Logos book has all of that plus every word is individually tagged for language. Topics are tagged and in Greek, Hebrew, etc a host of additional information is added regarding parsing, gloss and so on.
Add linking and whatever I haven't mentioned and you're 10,000 word short book may have hundreds of thousands of tags. That is sure to increase production cost on some level. Just how much is completely out of my league (and memory).
I realize the additional expense to format a book into Logos format. That's for real. I don't know what those costs are, but I imagine they are significant.
However, I am highly skeptical about much in this article. I don't think it is a very realistic picture. The cost of converting text to digital is a one time cost. After that reproduciton is of minimal cost. 50 cents for book for converting text to digital seems a little high if the sales volume is very large at all. The article even talks of storage costs which would have be less than book format.
Some of this article seems no more that propoganda to prepare consumers to be receptive to higher prices.
I'd suggest the reverse. What the article didn't cover was the books that don't recover costs. And I'm not sure that it reflected all the overhead for the publisher. The one advantage I see for the publisher is that keeping books in print will no longer be expense. A change in tax law regarding unsold stock many years back had a severe effect on texts for some college course because of the increased taxes on these books.
if the sales volume is very large at all.
Somewhere in the last year or two, I read that the "average" run for a new author is about 500 copies. Unfortunately, I don't recall enough details for the figure to be meaningful. I merely throw it out as an indication that large sales are not the norm.
Personally I don't think that e-book cost is my problem when looking at the price of a product. This line of reasoning can justify just about any price point since after all it cost ________ because of _____ (wage increases, benefit packages, new computers, remodeling, moving, profit margins) for that company. If a publisher wants to sell a product then price response to market forces need to happen in order to force efficiencies in that business... Christian or not.
I'd say you're determined to be skeptical. You've missed a couple points: for one, printing a book is, by itself, a very cheap process anyway. The difference between the creating of a digital title & the actual printing of a book is negligable, especially since most books never see a second print run. And that's point two: you seen to assume that sales volume is going to be large. For 95% of authors, it isn't. And it never will be.
No, no it isn't.
while initial costs may be similar (I'll even give you a little more for ebooks... which I'm not convinced), eventually, as long as a book/resource has a decent reception, the price to "produce" goes down drastically after costs are covered.
-So as long as an ebook covers the cost of production, it is easy sailing into the profit margin....
-I've really noticed the cost of printing (and don't forget shipping, which by the way seems to always be left out of the picture) is played down a lot by some around here. To say that isn't a significant issue makes me almost laugh out loud... lol ...
-No matter how much wishful thinking a company wants to add to the scenario, the customer is ALWAYS going to compare the price of digital books to CURRENT REAL (NOT SRP) value (what they can find on Amazon for example).
-I understand that for a company like Logos it is a little different. They also have to continue to support the product, so I'll agree that does add some extra cost into the equation... However, it only means it may take a little longer to cover costs... and the resource will eventually hit the critical sales point to where it is mostly (if not all) profit...
-Another point to consider... Logos doesn't put out most of its resources until it knows the resources are going to be profitable (hence the pre-pub program)... While that may not mean it comes out at the critical point of profit, it is certainly a lot closer...
-Another note: The reliability (and/or security) of a product enhances its value... (cars for example)... IMO print material is still a whole lot more reliable and secure than digital... Like it or not digital ebooks come out of the chute will less value because of this...
-Still another consideration: I can loan my books... my family can use them... I can loan them to the Church family.... (This ADDS value IMO)... How bout them ebooks? nope... (REDUCES value)...
-Considering we live (Americans) in a capatilist free-market... The customer is ultimatly the one who decides the value of a product...
to buy... or not to buy... that is the question... (If enough people buy a product at a given amount, then it is priced right, if not, then it isn't)
-The majority may one day decide ebooks are as valuable as print... (or even more so)... This hasn't happened yet, and it may never... It certainly will not get my vote...
eventually, as long as a book/resource has a decent reception, the price to "produce" goes down drastically after costs are covered.
This is, indeed, the central question: How many books have a decent reception? How often are costs not covered? The second, is more a question beyond Logos since the prepub program is focused on covering costs. But even then: Logos cannot reduce prices after the prepub program because then everyone would wait until after prepub to buy, which would mean nothing would get out of prepub because the costs are never covered.
This is basically true. However, a number of resources that need to be available to scholars and serious students of scripture often have a very high cost even when subsidized.
Bob replied in another forum (Zondervan Poll, Dec 13) said "production costs on electronic are similar to print (we don't pay for typesetting or paper, but we do much more extensive tagging and data preparation, and we have to "re-invent the printing press" every few years -- i.e. develop the software platform.)" He indicated that they sell about 10 percent or less than the print title would and for some sets they only sell a few hundred copies (sorry but I haven't figured out how to copy links to posts in these forums) Ongoing support and fixing typos after purchase also increase cost.
I don't know that we can compare this article to Logos, Since much (most) content is generated electronically I doubt the cost for a simple pdf file would amount to much of anything for the publisher. (I just got a book set which included a CD. The pdf files looked exactly like the books so the only extra "production" cost would have been to create the cd master).
He indicated that they sell about 10 percent or less than the print title would and for some sets they only sell a few hundred copies
This is personally weird. When a paper book will sell 1000 copies....why would the electronic version only sell 900? It seems like to me it would sell the same volume. The only exception that I see is if the reader does not have an electronic reader. But I really doubt that is the case in today's computer era.
He indicated that they sell about 10 percent or less than the print title would and for some sets they only sell a few hundred copies This is personally weird. When a paper book will sell 1000 copies....why would the electronic version only sell 900? It seems like to me it would sell the same volume. The only exception that I see is if the reader does not have an electronic reader. But I really doubt that is the case in today's computer era.
Many people I know don't want to buy e-books. Many don't have e-readers. Many don't like to read on the computer, computer era or not.
The only exception that I see is if the reader does not have an electronic reader. But I really doubt that is the case in today's computer era.
I know only one person who owns a Kindle, no one owning a similar device. I know no one with an i-phone but several with internet connected phones. Most astonishingly, I know people who don't have computers - some of whom go to the library for email but many without email. And I'm in one of the IT meccas/
Mike,
You are right in saying I am determined to be skeptical. And it has served me well over the years. I am skeptical of anything from the New York Times, but that is beside the point. Everyone presents their side of the story, and there is always another side.
I don't mean that the writer is intentionally lying, though I am skeptical enough to not be surprised if writers do. But like everyone else, he is biased.
I think you greatly underestimate reality when you say printing a paper "book is, by itself, a very cheap process anyway." I beg to differ. And just think of the cost of delivering all the books in the scholar's platinum package verses mailing a dvd or delivering over the net! I think you are defying common sense here.
Let me also point out that I was not attacking Logos pricing. I said, "I realize the additional expense to format a book into Logos format. That's for real. I don't know what those costs are, but I imagine they are significant." The article was not about Logos, but e-publishing in general.
I stand by my comments. It is not true that the cost of producing and selling a novel electronically is equal to producing and selling a novel in paper. (Logos resources may be different in many cases.)
Brother, I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this. That is okay. Even my wife disagrees with me about some things. She would say that I am not only determined to skeptical, but I am determined to be stubborn.
Grace and Peace.
When a paper book will sell 1000 copies....why would the electronic version only sell 900
I think that would mean that a book that sold 1000 copies in print would sell 100 copies or less in electronic format.
This is, indeed, the central question: How many books have a decent reception? How often are costs not covered? The second, is more a question beyond Logos since the prepub program is focused on covering costs. But even then: Logos cannot reduce prices after the prepub program because then everyone would wait until after prepub to buy, which w
-Logos actually increases the price once they know cost (at least the majority) are going to be covered... Which means the critical sales numbers (in order to meet max profitability) are met much more quickly...
I stand corrected. I thought it was 10% less.... not 10% of..
Now, I am pretty sure this number 10% of will quickly change. People now may not have readers or different ebook platforms but they soon will. I just don't see this paper thing continuing. My community college is now getting a lot of books that are ebooks. When I was a teacher. every year....one of the big sales things that these book publishers were selling us on was the fact that everything was on this single thumb drive. We get the set of books and every 30 books was a single teacher thumb drive. We could order another thumb drive for 79.99.
I would suggest that large sections of the American public has a very limited ability to purchase both the technology and actual ebooks like those of Logos. It seems to me that cost is not an issue only for those who have the resources on a constant basis to purchase such technology. If the Body of Christ is not careful we could easily define faith in class terms based on what reading technology (or lack of) for those whom we are trying to minister to...is ebooks really necessary?
If the Body of Christ is not careful we could easily define faith in class terms based on what reading technology (or lack of) for those whom we are trying to minister to...is ebooks really necessary?
Well this is exactly what the church was doing in the 1400's. When the printing press came out...It was much easier to get things printed. We now give bibles away.
If paper goes with the dinosaurs....Someone will find a way to get the bible into an e reader for the masses. In Fact I believe, an E-reader itself is probably CHEAP compared to what we pay today. The reason I believe this is look at the power and the technology that we have today compared to 1960's computer....
Lets think quickly...A calculator is now 1.00 that is a screen and if we add a chip with the bible....could it display the text?
I would think so...We don't have the call for it but...technology is there.
Not so long ago we never had calculators and you actually needed to know some math to calculate things with an "adding machine" or a slide rule. early machines could not subtract....but it was still faster to use a machine for "big calculations"
Indeed the printing press was a significant invention that was a great advance forward in spreading knowledge to the general populace...but not for several hundred years. Technology, in a Utopian world, should lead to more biblical literacy and understanding of the Gospel across ministerial contexts. I would suggest however that for many across multiple cultural contexts accessing the latest Logos pre-pub on an Ipod may not be very high on their needs list. There is nothing inherently wrong with this technology and its use in ministerial settings imo. What is a justice issue, at least from an OT perspective, is how such technology affects those who cant afford it not those who can.
I am not sure I am understanding what you are trying to get across. I thought you were saying that if we start to epublish everything.....this would deny the "have-nots" from having access to books in general and thus not being able to further their biblical literacy and understanding of the Gospel for themselves.
I would disagree. Technology is there to allow anyone regardless of who they are to get the latest ebook to study and grow in their knowledge of the Lord and his finished work on the Cross. There would just need to be a call for such resources to be made available at the public library or that type place.
Have I misunderstood you? I am trying not to be "confrontational" in this thread. I am sorry if I have struck a nerve or making you feel like your under attack.
Christ's Peace to you,
William
Numbers 6:23-26
I thought this thread was rather straight forward. A) E-books seems to be a rather expensive way to access books in general much less biblical works such as Logos. This increased expense does, in fact, deny large parts of the world access information which leads to the creation of information casts of have and have nots. C)Such limitations may become theological concerns in relation to justice issues in which God can/and or does have a heart for those who are social and cultural outcasts. It can be argued of course that all of this is part of the post-modern emerging Church that is addressing the narrative needs of a new and unique generation of lost...all of which can be seen as just another example of the lack of sensitivity of the spiritual needs of those are less privileged in this world.
