Roman seal on Christ's tomb
Does anybody know of a great Logos resource for finding out specifically about the Roman seal on the tomb?
I had specific questions in my Matthew Bible Study about how the seal would be able to keep anybody out and how it would prove anything.
I imagine it was like a lead fishing weight, in which it gets crimped onto a wire or something, going through a hole in the stone and the cave.
Yes? No? The dictionaries and commentaries I have consulted do not go into much detail.
Thanks.
Comments
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Most of my commentaries point back to Dan 6 and the lions' den sealing. Expositor's Greek Testament: 'The participial clause—σφραγίσαντες τὸν λίθον—is a parenthesis pointing to an additional precaution, sealing the stone, with a thread over it and sealed to the tomb at either end.'
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Dan Sheppard said:
how the seal would be able to keep anybody out
Not the physical seal, but the fact that it represented the authority of the Roman Governor.
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Wait - I think this evening's news had a segment on the recent archeological find. They found a tomb with a broken seal. The seal may date to the 1st century. The tomb might be near Jerusalem. The tomb must be the one Jesus borrowed. They even found the scroll with the 3 day rental agreement.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Keep Smiling [:)]
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MJ. Smith said:
Wait - I think this evening's news had a segment on the recent archeological find. They found a tomb with a broken seal. The seal may date to the 1st century. The tomb might be near Jerusalem. The tomb must be the one Jesus borrowed. They even found the scroll with the 3 day rental agreement.
Talkin' about the archaeologist who stepped into the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in order to get some cooling?
"Mach's wie Gott - werde Mensch!" | theolobias.de
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At this point, the tomb is officially sealed with the Roman seal. The sealing of the tomb was done in several steps. First, a strong rope was placed around the stone at the door of the tomb. Secondly, the two ends were drawn to the side of the door on the outer wall of the tomb. Thirdly, a wax or clay seal was placed on the rope where it crossed itself in front of the stone and where the rope touched the two sides of the tomb. It would be impossible to move the stone without breaking the seal. To break the Roman seal was punishable by death. This occurred on Saturday. Jesus was laid in the tomb on Friday and, on Saturday; the Roman guard was placed to make sure that the body would not be stolen out of the tomb.The Messianic Bible Study Collection
if we meet and you forget me,
you have lost nothing.
But if you meet Jesus and forget Him,
you have lost everything.
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Fascinating - thanks for posting this.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Carey Pearson said:
At this point, the tomb is officially sealed with the Roman seal. (...) the Roman guard was placed to make sure that the body would not be stolen out of the tomb.Matthew 27:65-66
65 Pilate said to them, “You have a guard10 of soldiers. Go, make it as secure as you can.” 66 So they went and made the tomb secure by sealing the stone and setting a guard. ESV
10 Or Take a guard
Mark, Luke, and John - no mention of a guard
Was it Roman Soldiers or Jewish Temple guards? Under what rules did the Temple guards operate when outside the Temple? Did they need Pilate’s permission to operate outside of the temple? [for example - to go to the tomb?] [Thursday night they went out under the cover of darkness hoping that the Romans did not notice]
“You have a guard” – as in [maybe] use your own soldiers!
“Make it as secure as you can” – AS YOU CAN – Pilate did not say I WILL SECURE IT FOR YOU
[Yes, I have read ALL of the commentaries in my platinum Logos 4 package on this subject. But from the Bible and the Bible alone I am not convinced. Can anyone trace the history of the theory of it being Roman Soldiers?]
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[:D] [:D] [:D]MJ. Smith said:Wait - I think this evening's news had a segment on the recent archeological find. They found a tomb with a broken seal. The seal may date to the 1st century. The tomb might be near Jerusalem. The tomb must be the one Jesus borrowed. They even found the scroll with the 3 day rental agreement.
That's 3 guffaws
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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I'll raise you 2 snickers and a chortle.[:)]George Somsel said:That's 3 guffaws
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David Ames said:
“You have a guard10 of soldiers. 10 Or Take a guard
that "take a guard" translation to me implies a Roman Soldier.
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JNN (Jerusalem News Network) interviewed Joseph of Arimathea after the Resurrection and asked him why he used his own tomb to bury Jesus.
"Well, ya know..." Joseph replied, "... He only needed it for the weekend."
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David Ames said:Carey Pearson said:
I found an interesting item relating to this discussion:
Matthew (27:65) alone records a request for Roman guards to watch the tomb (it is not clear whether he envisages those who were placed as Roman or Jewish). Thus there remain many problems concerning the precise roles of the Romans and the Jews during the trial and execution of Jesus. It is likely that apologetic, theological and other factors have helped shape the narratives.
Green, J. B., McKnight, S., & Marshall, I. H. (1992). Dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels (714). Downers Grove, Ill.: InterVarsity Press.Perhaps those more astute than I can use the following idea to do further research (I don't have a copy of W.L. Craig's study):
κουστωδία, ας, ἡ koustōdia guard*
This Latin loanword (custodia) appears in Matt 27:65 (ἔχω κουστωδίαν, “have a guard”), 66; 28:11 in reference to the guards at the tomb of Jesus. W. L. Craig, “The Guard at the Tomb,” NTS 30 (1984) 273–81.
Balz, H. R., & Schneider, G. (1990-). Vol. 2: Exegetical dictionary of the New Testament (313). Grand Rapids, Mich.: Eerdmans.It seem that the question boils down to is whether Pilate is authorizing his own guards to go with them or he is granting permission to use the temple guards or some other "police" force. Who knows?
{charley}
running Logos Bible Software 6.0a: Collector's Edition on HP e9220y (AMD Phenom II X4 2.60GHz 8.00GB 64-bit Win 7 Pro SP1) & iPad (mini) apps.
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Dr. Charles A. Wootten said:
Who knows?
Thanks for the feed back - "Who knows" is the answer that I hold [after a full day spent on the subject using ALL references found] - I do not see the answer to this as a salvation issue so we do not have to worry about it too often.
But by looking into items like this sharpens my investigations into more important topics where it is important that I know that my leaders are leading me in the correct direction rather then astray.
The Guard at the Tomb Dr. William Lane Craig
Can be found at http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billcraig/docs/guard.html (as of 4/14/2011)
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Dr. Charles A. Wootten said:
It seem that the question boils down to is whether Pilate is authorizing his own guards to go with them or he is granting permission to use the temple guards or some other "police" force. Who knows?
Seems to me that Matthew 28:13–14 would have a bearing on this question. If they were Jewish Temple Guards, would they have to worry about the Roman Governor hearing news of their sleeping on duty?
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Jack Caviness said:Dr. Charles A. Wootten said:
It seem that the question boils down to is whether Pilate is authorizing his own guards to go with them or he is granting permission to use the temple guards or some other "police" force. Who knows?
Seems to me that Matthew 28:13–14 would have a bearing on this question. If they were Jewish Temple Guards, would they have to worry about the Roman Governor hearing news of their sleeping on duty?
Might depend on the relationship between the Romans and the Jews dealing with the rules that the Temple Guards [people trained to use long sharp things] were to operate under - were they to meet the same requirements as the Romans? And there is one BIG word in all English versions of Mat 28:14 'IF'. If the guards were Roman then it would be 'WHEN' not 'IF' [but like I said before - I do not see this as a salvation issue]
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Jack Caviness said:Dr. Charles A. Wootten said:
It seem that the question boils down to is whether Pilate is authorizing his own guards to go with them or he is granting permission to use the temple guards or some other "police" force. Who knows?
Seems to me that Matthew 28:13–14 would have a bearing on this question. If they were Jewish Temple Guards, would they have to worry about the Roman Governor hearing news of their sleeping on duty?
I'm wondering why the "Roman soldiers" would have gone to the priests in the first place...surely they wouldn't admit to their superior officers that they were sleeping on the job (most likely punished by execution). Or were they (as Romans) sympathetic to the Jewish rulers? My assumption (and that's all that it is right now) would be that these were temple guards that could be "bought and paid for" by the Jewish priests to lie to the people and not Roman soldiers who would die rather than tell a lie (admitting that they were sleeping on the job).
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David Ames said:Jack Caviness said:
Seems to me that Matthew 28:13–14 would have a bearing on this question. If they were Jewish Temple Guards, would they have to worry about the Roman Governor hearing news of their sleeping on duty?
And there is one BIG word in all English versions of Mat 28:14 'IF'. If the guards were Roman then it would be 'WHEN' not 'IF'
The "If" has to do with their telling the falsehood of sleeping on guard duty. If they told that story to the general populace, it may or may not reach the ears of the Governor.
David Ames said:[but like I said before - I do not see this as a salvation issue]
I agree. It is just an interesting puzzle.
Bill Shewmaker said:I'm wondering why the "Roman soldiers" would have gone to the priests in the first place...surely they wouldn't admit to their superior officers that they were sleeping on the job (most likely punished by execution). Or were they (as Romans) sympathetic to the Jewish rulers? My assumption (and that's all that it is right now) would be that these were temple guards that could be "bought and paid for" by the Jewish priests to lie to the people and not Roman soldiers who would die rather than tell a lie (admitting that they were sleeping on the job).
Very good points, Bill. This entire discussion has given me a few things to ponder, but none of them are earth-shattering. Whether the guards were Jewish or Roman does not change the fact of the Resurrection.0 -
This has all been a very interesting and pleasant exchange. If all hermeneutical and theological discussions could be handled in this manner, we would not need Guidelines. My thanks to all who participated.
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I spoke to my Adult Bible Study class today, about the Roman seals.
Somebody asked me if they used seals everywhere and I told them, "No". The problem was only in Caesarea Maritima, where the only thing available was Harbor Seals.
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Dan Sheppard said:
I spoke to my Adult Bible Study class today, about the Roman seals.
Somebody asked me if they used seals everywhere and I told them, "No". The problem was only in Caesarea Maritima, where the only thing available was Harbor Seals.
Argh, argh, argh. [View:http://www.ilovewavs.com/Effects/Animals/Sound Effect - Seal Barking.wav]
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Rosie!!!! That is quite enough!!!!![:D] ROFL
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William Bingham said:
Rosie!!!! That is quite enough!!!!!
ROFLHey, Dan made the pun first. I couldn't help but reply to it.
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Jack Caviness said:
If all hermeneutical and theological discussions could be handled in this manner, we would not need Guidelines.
The forum guidelines were added so that the trespass might increase...[;)]
"Upon a life I did not live, Upon a death I did not die, Another's life, another's death, I stake my whole eternity"
Horatius Bonar
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Simon Pleasants said:Jack Caviness said:
If all hermeneutical and theological discussions could be handled in this manner, we would not need Guidelines.
The forum guidelines were added so that the trespass might increase...
[:D] Very good! [Y]
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Jack Caviness said:Simon Pleasants said:Jack Caviness said:
If all hermeneutical and theological discussions could be handled in this manner, we would not need Guidelines.
The forum guidelines were added so that the trespass might increase...
Very good! 
With primary forum guidance being how to use Logos Bible Software, friendly discussions about hermeneutical and theological research using Logos Bible Software seems appropriate. Thankful for breadth and depth of library material available in Logos; likewise Thankful for resources being developed plus more suggestions.
Caution: good idea to put [C] out of way before following other locked "hijacking" replies that helped seal some forum guidelines. Found thought provoking Math in one reply => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/6836/56564.aspx#56564
Could add 0 x 9 + 1 = 1 to 2nd list
For 3rd list, could add 0 x 9 + 8 = 8
and 987654321 x 9 - 1 = 8888888888
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Jack Caviness said:
Seems to me that Matthew 28:13–14 would have a bearing on this question. If they were Jewish Temple Guards, would they have to worry about the Roman Governor hearing news of their sleeping on duty?
Since the phrase can be translated "you have a guard" or "Take a guard" and the translations are pretty divided...the relevant passage seems to be the one above...this provides the context for what is being addressed....they must be Roman Guards....right?
The commentaries seem to agree.
PS: this was an interesting study....thanks!
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Fascinating discussion, as I never even thought the guard was anything but Roman.
I've pasted the significant portions of this thread into my Logos passage notes!
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I really appreciated the insight I haven't found this anywhere else. Would you have the reference and the exact quote?
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Carey G Pearson, thank you for this quote I haven't found it anywhere else. Could you give me a footnoted reference and exact quote please! Jim Berglund pstjim@gmail.com
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