Is it really the Encyclopedia Britannica as we might of thought?

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This post has 261 Replies | 21 Followers

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David Carter | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 1:06 PM

Wow what a mess! I'm really glad I didn't buy into this one

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 1:10 PM

David Carter:
Wow what a mess! I'm really glad I didn't buy into this one

At least no one needs to be out any money. FL will honor a return.

Somewhere along the way they will need to notify all who purchased this resource of the possible misunderstanding so those who are scratching their heads but not jumping onto the Forum will know they aren't alone and that they have the return option. I'm sure they will do this. Of course, the sooner the situation gets resolved the better.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 1:14 PM

Jesse Blevins:

The silence from Faith life regarding this issue is starting to get frustrating. 

Somebody please tell us something.

Bob are you out there? 

What happened? and what if, anything are you planning on doing about this? 

Tell us something. The silence comes across as implying that you don't care, which I believe is not the case. 

As has been pointed out, Phil responded and they will follow up.

Consider that this is a huge mistake.  That means the response has to be appropriate to the level of mistake.  

I know everyone is edgy but give them time to hash this out internally.  A "from the hip" response isn't always the right one.

Give them time to build the right response.  

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 4069
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 1:15 PM

Mark Barnes:

abondservant:
If I had to guess this is the result of internal miscommunications both at Logos and E.B..

This certainly does seem to be the case. What's worrying, however, is why that wasn't picked up prior to release.

Indeed. They will make it right to those that purchased though, they always do. Maybe let you keep the current kiddie edition, and offering "as ready" updates on the academic version.

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Posts 2046
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 1:19 PM

Someone please explain to me why Britannica is needed if you have the internet to look up stuff.  I grew up on Britannica and it was absolutely essential. Now with the internet, I wonder.

This product as already said so many times, just was not what was expected at all.  But beyond that, anyone have thoughts on my question?

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 1:23 PM

Mark:
Someone please explain to me why Britannica is needed if you have the internet to look up stuff.

Why do you need Logos? "The Internet" isn't a source. ONE of the places you can utilize on the internet with a subscription is Encyclopedia Britannica.

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 1:26 PM

Mark:

Someone please explain to me why Britannica is needed if you have the internet to look up stuff.  I grew up on Britannica and it was absolutely essential. Now with the internet, I wonder.

This product as already said so many times, just was not what was expected at all.  But beyond that, anyone have thoughts on my question?

A week ago I was without internet for ½ a day.  A couple of months ago the gas company was laying a new line and the underground wasn't marked properly resulting in a cut connection and 1-2 days outage.  Some are routinely without internet for longer periods of time for various reasons.  Having an encyclopedia handy is convenient under those circumstances.  Also, don't believe everything you find on the internet.

george
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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 1:27 PM

One time ago, someone accidentally put the wrong price (heavily discounted) on some resources. A number of people bought them at the cheap price. 

Logos could have refunded their money and invoked the lisences, but they allowed them to keep the resources.

Logos will try to please its customers even at their own hurt.

Lynden Williams Communications https://www.lyndenwilliams.net 

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 1:29 PM

Mark:
Someone please explain to me why Britannica is needed if you have the internet to look up stuff.  I grew up on Britannica and it was absolutely essential. Now with the internet, I wonder.

The two advantages I can see are interaction with your other Logos resources or tools, and the visual resources that can be searched and included with the Passage Guide, and so on.

I'm not led to believe from all we've been told that the interaction with other resources will be great. I assume results would show up in the Passage Guide, Topical Guide, and in Factbook. We've been told it will interact with Timeline.

For the initial offering price I thought it worth the above.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

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Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 1:30 PM

Mark:

Someone please explain to me why Britannica is needed if you have the internet to look up stuff.  I grew up on Britannica and it was absolutely essential. Now with the internet, I wonder.

This product as already said so many times, just was not what was expected at all.  But beyond that, anyone have thoughts on my question?

When you say "internet", what you mean is Wikipedia, right?  Wikipedia is crowd-sourced, and no one has responsibility for the reliability and truthfulness of its content.  Because of that, you can't cite it as a valid source in papers.  It's also variable in detail you get, and articles can often can be vandalized.

A published encyclopedia, on the other hand, has the reputation of the publisher behind it, so their editors are motivated to hire competent article authors and fact-check the content.

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 1:31 PM

Lynden Williams:

One time ago, someone accidentally put the wrong price (heavily discounted) on some resources. A number of people bought them at the cheap price. 

Logos could have refunded their money and invoked the lisences, but they allowed them to keep the resources.

Logos will try to please its customers even at their own hurt.

Read about the incident here

Lynden Williams Communications https://www.lyndenwilliams.net 

Posts 536
Fasil | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 1:32 PM

They do! I've seen that again and again . That's one of the many reasons I love Logos. 

Posts 5301
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 1:39 PM

George Somsel:
Some are routinely without internet for longer periods of time for various reasons.  Having an encyclopedia handy is convenient under those circumstances.  Also, don't believe everything you find on the internet.

Many of us purchased it for these reasons. Right now anyone can go and change wikipedia to say anything... it usually gets corrected and all in all good. But having articles that are " trusted and comprehensive scholarship from world-renowned experts" seemed an ideal thing to have access too. It just extremely disappointing such a shoddy product was allowed to be released.

-Dan

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 1:42 PM

Lynden Williams:

One time ago, someone accidentally put the wrong price (heavily discounted) on some resources. A number of people bought them at the cheap price. 

Logos could have refunded their money and invoked the lisences, but they allowed them to keep the resources.

Logos will try to please its customers even at their own hurt.

Yes

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 2:13 PM

TCBlack:
Give them time to build the right response.  

Amen.

Posts 2046
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 2:41 PM

Mark Smith:
The two advantages I can see are interaction with your other Logos resources or tools, and the visual resources that can be searched and included with the Passage Guide, and so on.

YEs, well this was my thought as well.  Without this, it is useless in Logos. 

Some others have commented.  I am well aware of the issues they wrote about on the internet, wikipedia and power outages.  But Wikipedia was not on my mind when I asked the question.

For the price, I thought I was getting something useful.  I guess if I actually saw what Britannica was capable of doing today, I would not have needed to ask this question.  But what I am seeing in this resource, I would be fine about using internet sources.

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 3:53 PM

I have an answer. It'll take a few minutes to type it up, but I didn't want you to think we'd forgotten about you! Check back soon for the official word on what happened and what we're going to do to fix it.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 4:04 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

I have an answer. It'll take a few minutes to type it up, but I didn't want you to think we'd forgotten about you! Check back soon for the official word on what happened and what we're going to do to fix it.

Thanks for taking time to let us know that one is coming. As always I'm confident that Faithlife will solve this.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

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Rick Carmickle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 4:17 PM

The Noet-Britannica article on Zwingli is 242 words, but Wikipedia is 10,172.

The Noet-Britannica article on Mark Zuckerberg is 375 with Wiki at 8,500.

Someone criticized Wiki, but the reason kids can't quote it is because they want kids to use the library. So the question is value, not really reliability. For most of what we do, wiki is very good. 

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2015 4:51 PM

We've discussed this internally and with the Encyclopaedia Britannica team, and we figured out what happened and have a good plan in place for how to make it right.

What Happened

Encyclopaedia Britannica (the company) has three different encyclopedia databases:

  1. Encyclopedia Britannica: contains ~80,000 articles and has over 40,000,000 words; aimed at the scholarly market
  2. Compton's Encyclopedia: contains ~19,000 articles and has over 8,000,000 words; aimed at the family market
  3. Encyclopedia Britannica, Student Edition: contains ~5,000 articles and has ~2,000,000 words; aimed at the student market

What we received from Encyclopaedia Britannica and delivered to you was #2.

All three of these are considered part of the Encyclopaedia Britannica family of encyclopedias. Compton's has been updated and expanded by the Encyclopaedia Britannica team beyond the edition that used to be in print, so there was a desire on the part of some to distance our product from the Compton's most people are familiar with. Ours is bigger, better, and more up to date.

(There's also a concise edition of Encyclopedia Britannica, 24,973 short articles and ~2,800,000 words, which they no longer sell.)

Encyclopaedia Britannica (the company) has several different encyclopedia products, which contain one or more of their three databases:

  1. Britannica.com: includes a subset of the main Encyclopedia Britannica database. They rotate which articles appear online from time to time.
  2. Britannica Kids: includes the full database of both Compton's and the Student Edition.
  3. Britannica School: has the full database for all three products.
  4. Britannica Academic: has the full Encyclopedia Britannica database.

They also license their various databases to third parties; these databases show up in products of various names. So its normal for these databases to be delivered under different names.

There was some confusion between our teams regarding what exactly we were getting. Some thought we were simply getting a portion of the full Encyclopedia Britannica rather than a completely distinct set of content. We're really sorry for this confusion and miscommunication. This should have been named and advertised as Compton's Encyclopedia, or at the very least described as an updated version of what used to be called Compton's Encyclopedia.

What We're Going to Do

Here's what we plan to do.

Encyclopaedia Britannica (the company) has kindly agreed to give us access to a large portion (exact amount TBD) of their full Encyclopedia Britannica database, with the corresponding media. We plan to build that out as a completely separate resource and bundle it in a collection along with the full Compton's Encyclopedia, which you already received. So you'll get both, for the price you already paid. (We're going to rename the current resource Compton's Encyclopedia. The new resource will be named Encyclopedia Britannica.) Consider Compton's a bonus, "we're sorry" gift. We're also going to deliver substantially more content that we originally described. We already delivered the full Compton's with its ~19,000 articles. We're going to deliver on top of that a substantial portion of the full Encyclopedia Britannica database of articles and corresponding media—at no additional charge to you.

We'll be putting the product back on Pre-Pub to give everyone who missed out the first time a second chance to take advantage of what's now an even better deal. We'll ship it as soon as we've built Encyclopedia Britannica. We're going to give it top priority and push it through the system as quickly as we can. It's a large amount of content, so it's going to take several weeks at minimum. Those of you who got in on the first pre-order (and don't request a refund) can simply ignore the new Pre-Pub.

What You Can Do

Since the product is changing and expanding and you've already been billed, we want to make sure you're 100% happy.

Here are your options:

  1. Keep Compton's and wait for Encyclopedia Britannica. If you're happy to have access to Compton's now and wait for Encyclopedia Britannica to be delivered later this year or early next year, you don't need to do anything. Enjoy access to Compton's now and wait patiently as we build Encyclopedia Britannica. You're paid in full and won't be charged for anything else.
  2. Return Compton's and pre-order the new Pre-Pub. If you'd like to wait to pay until the full product is finished, you can return the product and place a pre-order for the new one. You'll get both encyclopedias when they're finished and won't be charged until then. We'll honor the Pre-Pub price you had when you pre-ordered the original product. To take advantage of this, just call us at 800-875-6467 or send an email to cs@logos.com.
  3. Request a refund. If you'd like a refund, we'd be happy take care of that for you. The 30-day return window won't start until we've delivered the full product, so feel free to take the full time to evaluate whether the product is right for you.

On behalf of the team, please accept our sincerest apologies. We're really sorry for this mix-up and confusion, and we're eager to make it right.

Edit: I updated the projected ship time frame to reflect reality.

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