Bug: Windows Task bar doesn't show that Logos is running

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This post has 42 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 13397
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 26 2016 12:56 AM

Bradley,

Which app should be pinned to the taskbar?

C:\Users\mark\AppData\Local\Logos\Logos.exe or
C:\Users\mark\AppData\Local\Logos\System\Logos.exe

In my case, it's the former.

Posts 13397
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 26 2016 8:23 AM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
Can you capture a screencast or steps to reproduce?

Here's a screen capture of it happening, captured this morning. I reduced the resolution for reasons of space, but hopefully it's still useful. If not, I have the original capture file at high-res. I also saved a log from process monitor if it's helpful.

In the video I thought the icon disappeared after opening a floating window, but if you look closely (around 1:23) it actually goes when I open the NIV resource for the second time, before I pop-it up in a floating window.

You'll be better off downloading the video rather than viewing it in the browser. My browser cuts off a few crucial pixels at the bottom.

Posts 8227
LogosEmployee

Mark Barnes:

Which app should be pinned to the taskbar?

C:\Users\mark\AppData\Local\Logos\Logos.exe or
C:\Users\mark\AppData\Local\Logos\System\Logos.exe

In my case, it's the former.

That is correct.

Posts 1164
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 26 2016 9:02 PM

Has there been any progress towards resolving this problem? It's getting increasingly annoying as it interferes with my workflow.

Posts 8227
LogosEmployee
Bradley Grainger (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 26 2016 10:30 PM

Do you have consistent steps to repro?

(Sorry to sound like a broken record, but unless we can reliably reproduce the problem—which, so far we've been unable to do—it's hard to diagnose the cause, and also hard to know that any potential fix is actually effective.)

Even if it's not 100% reproducible, capturing a screencast would be helpful because it might give us some clues as to how it's happening.

(The link to Mark's screencast posted earlier appears to be dead, so we currently don't have anything.)

Posts 13397
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 27 2016 1:40 AM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
(The link to Mark's screencast posted earlier appears to be dead, so we currently don't have anything.)

The first video I uploaded has disappeared (and I don't have a copy), but the second one is still available. The proviso still applies:

Mark Barnes:

I reduced the resolution for reasons of space, but hopefully it's still useful. If not, I have the original capture file at high-res. I also saved a log from process monitor if it's helpful.

In the video I thought the icon disappeared after opening a floating window, but if you look closely (around 1:23) it actually goes when I open the NIV resource for the second time, before I pop-it up in a floating window.

You'll be better off downloading the video rather than viewing it in the browser. My browser cuts off a few crucial pixels at the bottom.

Posts 1164
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 27 2016 2:47 AM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Do you have consistent steps to repro?

This nearly always makes it happen for me:

  1. Start Logos
  2. Open a book to read
  3. Press F11 to enter reading mode
  4. Press F11 to exit--> Logos disappears from taskbar.

(Sorry to sound like a broken record, but unless we can reliably reproduce the problem—which, so far we've been unable to do—it's hard to diagnose the cause, and also hard to know that any potential fix is actually effective.)

Even if it's not 100% reproducible, capturing a screencast would be helpful because it might give us some clues as to how it's happening.

Sorry, don't have one & don't have the time to learn how to do that. No other software I use does this. If it would help I'll attach logs, but you guys need to figure out what's wrong with your product. As Mark posted originally, this problem has been around for years, and two users already told you in posts #2 & #3 how it triggers for them--eight months ago.

Posts 13397
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 27 2016 3:36 AM

Sean:

This nearly always makes it happen for me:

  1. Start Logos
  2. Open a book to read
  3. Press F11 to enter reading mode
  4. Press F11 to exit--> Logos disappears from taskbar.

FWIW, I've never been able to reproduce the problem by going into reading mode. For me it's always opening or docking floating windows.

Posts 1164
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 27 2016 6:12 AM

I do not know how to make a video. This sequence of screenshots, however, shows exactly what happens, exactly as I described above. Note that this was after I had been using Logos for some time during the day. The icon with program name at some point came back on the taskbar, but then simply opening a book in a blank layout and switching in and out of the F11 Reading View made it disappear again.

Posts 13397
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 28 2016 6:07 AM

OK, here's another video that shows it occurring on demand. On my setup it's 100% repeatable. Here are repeatable steps to reproduce the error, as shown on the video:

  1. Open Logos maximised to a blank workspace.
  2. Open a resource by dragging from the shortcut bar.
  3. Move Logos to the other screen and maximise it.
  4. Move it back to the first screen and maximise it.
  5. Open the existing resource in a floating window. At this point the floating window will show in the taskbar, but the main desktop will disappear.

But you can actually do it even quicker.

  1. Open Logos maximised to a blank workspace.
  2. Move Logos to the other screen and maximise it. (Don't click anywhere except the title bar.)
  3. Move it back to the first screen. At this point the icon will disappear.

Dual-screen setup. Windows 10 Pro. nVidia graphics.

Posts 8227
LogosEmployee

Thanks for the video and detailed instructions, Mark. So far, it hasn't happened to me (on a three-monitor system) by performing those steps.

For those who are affected, does entering "set custom chrome to no" into the command box prevent the problem from happening? (That command will take effect immediately, but it may be worth restarting the program before attempting to reproduce the problem.)

Posts 13397
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 28 2016 4:09 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
For those who are affected, does entering "set custom chrome to no" into the command box prevent the problem from happening? (That command will take effect immediately, but it may be worth restarting the program before attempting to reproduce the problem.)

I cannot reproduce this when custom chrome is set to "no". That does seem to be a workaround (and more importantly, I guess, narrows the problem down).

If I turn custom chrome back on, I can then reproduce it using the first set of steps (without needing to restart).

If the icon has disappeared with custom chrome on, then turning custom chrome off doesn't bring it back.

<edit>I'll leave custom chrome off for a few days to see whether the bug occurs under normal use.</edit>

Posts 1164
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 28 2016 5:35 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Thanks for the video and detailed instructions, Mark. So far, it hasn't happened to me (on a three-monitor system) by performing those steps.

For those who are affected, does entering "set custom chrome to no" into the command box prevent the problem from happening? (That command will take effect immediately, but it may be worth restarting the program before attempting to reproduce the problem.)

Initial tests show that that immediately fixed the problem for me.

Also--just having initially loaded a layout--Logos is now running, or at least loading resources and windows, MUCH faster. Seriously, layouts are loading in a fraction of the time previously.

What on earth was that setting, and why was it causing so much trouble?

Posts 129
NK | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 2 2016 2:58 AM

Sean:

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Thanks for the video and detailed instructions, Mark. So far, it hasn't happened to me (on a three-monitor system) by performing those steps.

For those who are affected, does entering "set custom chrome to no" into the command box prevent the problem from happening? (That command will take effect immediately, but it may be worth restarting the program before attempting to reproduce the problem.)

Initial tests show that that immediately fixed the problem for me.

Also--just having initially loaded a layout--Logos is now running, or at least loading resources and windows, MUCH faster. Seriously, layouts are loading in a fraction of the time previously.

What on earth was that setting, and why was it causing so much trouble?

My question as well:  bump!

Posts 22746
Forum MVP
Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 2 2016 3:04 AM

Sean:
What on earth was that setting, and why was it causing so much trouble?

It was introduced in 4.0a to solve a display problem - discussion at https://community.logos.com/forums/t/7480.aspx 

Posts 1164
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 2 2016 5:22 AM

Graham Criddle:

Sean:
What on earth was that setting, and why was it causing so much trouble?

It was introduced in 4.0a to solve a display problem - discussion at https://community.logos.com/forums/t/7480.aspx 

Yes, but of what value is setting custom chrome to yes? Setting it to "no" greatly improved performance; by implication the reverse, the default of setting of "yes", greatly degrades it, at least in terms of rendering windows. The only advantage I see from the default "yes" is very slight and aesthetic only. It seems a very poor design decision if this is the case.

Posts 791
LogosEmployee
Eli Evans (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 2 2016 8:51 AM

Setting it to "yes" alllows the Home, Library, and Search buttons to paint over the top of the standard Windows application title bar:

And setting it to "no" fits everything within a standard Windows window "chrome" (the parts of the window that the OS renders):

Note that in my second screen shot, there is a white title bar above the Home, Library, Search buttons, and in the first screen shot, there is a blue title bar that goes behind them. 

Posts 1164
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 2 2016 8:57 AM

Yes, but it is worth the performance hit?

My system is an i5-2450M with 4 GB memory & 1 GB of video. On a similar machine try loading a medium or large layout with chrome on then off. Which do you think the user would prefer--the aesthetic of the former or the speed of the latter?

If the past X years I had tracked all the time I spent waiting for resources to open up because "custom chrome" was set by default to "yes", added it up & billed someone for it--well, let's just say I'd be a good ways to a Logos 7 Gold package.

How much lag is acceptable for more pretties? Which do you prioritize in your design?

Posts 791
LogosEmployee
Eli Evans (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 2 2016 9:13 AM

The fastest thing would be to have no UI at all. Wink

But seriously, this is the first I've heard that the custom window chrome comes with any noticable performance penalty. I just changed that setting, and it doesn't seem to make any difference whatsoever in speed on my machine. (Not that I ran any benchmarks.) I also can't make the start button disappear, so I suspect that there's something more complicated than just "pretties are expensive" going on here, ie, some combination of multiple factors. We may (or may not) have discovered one of them in custom chrome. I wonder what the other (as yet) unknown factors are?

Posts 1164
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 2 2016 9:15 AM

Eli Evans:

The fastest thing would be to have no UI at all. Wink

But seriously, this is the first I've heard that the custom window chrome comes with any noticable performance penalty. I just changed that setting, and it doesn't seem to make any difference whatsoever in speed on my machine. (Not that I ran any benchmarks.) I also can't make the start button disappear, so I suspect that there's something more complicated than just "pretties are expensive" going on here, ie, some combination of multiple factors. We may (or may not) have discovered one of them in custom chrome. I wonder what the other (as yet) unknown factors are?

Do please try to find out. I've never complained about the speed & performance of Logos before, just accepting it for what it was, but changing this made the difference between night & day.

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