Every OT quote by Jesus

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This post has 17 Replies | 2 Followers

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Beloved Amodeo | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Dec 23 2015 9:16 PM

Is there a way to query Logos for every instance Jesus quotes the Old Testament writings without having to assemble the data piecemeal by querying each book separately as in e.g. {Speaker <Person Jesus>} {Label Intertext WHERE Source~<Psalms>}?

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

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Myke Harbuck | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 23 2015 9:30 PM

Beloved:

Is there a way to query Logos for every instance Jesus quotes the Old Testament writings without having to assemble the data piecemeal by querying each book separately as in e.g. {Speaker <Person Jesus>} {Label Intertext WHERE Source~<Psalms>}?

Sure, you can use {Speaker <Person Jesus>} {Label Intertext WHERE Source~<Gen-Mal>} I believe. 

Myke Harbuck
Lead Pastor, www.ByronCity.Church
Adjunct Professor, Georgia Military College

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Beloved Amodeo | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 23 2015 9:39 PM

That works. Thanks Myke!

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

MacBook Pro macOS Big Sur 11.6 1TB SSD 

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 25 2015 1:55 PM

Myke Harbuck:
{Speaker <Person Jesus>} {Label Intertext WHERE Source~<Gen-Mal>}

That works OK in a Bible Search but

{Speaker <Person Jesus>} WITHIN {Label Intertext WHERE Source~<Gen-Mal>}

will prevent erroneous results in a Basic Search.

Dave
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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 26 2015 11:37 AM

Beloved:
Is there a way to query Logos for every instance Jesus quotes the Old Testament ...

Another search is:

{Speaker <Person Jesus>} WITHIN {Section <LiteraryType Quotation, Old Testament>}

that finds fewer verses (omits Intertext Allusion):

Keep Smiling Smile

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 26 2015 1:20 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Another search is:

{Speaker <Person Jesus>} WITHIN {Section <LiteraryType Quotation, Old Testament>}

that finds fewer verses (omits Intertext Allusion):

FYI - there's a discussion of the differences between these two searches at https://community.logos.com/forums/t/121006.aspx 

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John Brooks Pipher | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 29 2021 7:01 AM

These searches return zero results for me. Any idea why that might be the case? Thanks!

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Gordon Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 30 2021 3:24 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Another search is:

{Speaker <Person Jesus>} WITHIN {Section <LiteraryType Quotation, Old Testament>}

I ran this search and a result it produced was Matthew 5:43 (NRSV): “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’" Loving one's neighbour is certainly instructed in the OT but never, to my knowledge, are we told to hate enemies.

I have no doubt that Jesus was referring to a proverb used by Jews in first century A.D. Palestine but it doesn't seem defensible to attribute the latter part of the saying to the OT. I suspect that there is significance in Jesus introducing the proverb with "You have heard that it was said" rather than "It is written." The closest written text I've found is DSS 1QR "The Community Rule" column 1, line 10. I'd be delighted to be corrected in my understanding.

If my understanding is correct, however, what would be the best way to communicate this to Logos so that only the portion of Matthew 5:43 that quotes the OT is highlighted in search results?

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 30 2021 3:34 AM

John Brooks Pipher:

These searches return zero results for me. Any idea why that might be the case? Thanks!

Using Logos 9.1 it seems to be working for me.

Might I suggest that if you are using Logos 7 then you upgrade.

You might also remember that the program really has developed since 2015 and threads from that time my be less then accurate given the developments.

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

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Andrew Batishko | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 30 2021 7:27 AM

Gordon Jones:

I ran this search and a result it produced was Matthew 5:43 (NRSV):  “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ Loving one's neighbour is certainly instructed in the OT but never, to my knowledge, are we told to hate enemies.

I have no doubt that Jesus was referring to a proverb used by Jews in first century A.D. Palestine but it doesn't seem defensible to attribute the latter part of the saying to the OT. I suspect that there is significance in Jesus introducing the proverb with "You have heard that it was said" rather than "It is written." The closest written text I've found is DSS 1QR "The Community Rule" column 1, line 10. I'd be delighted to be corrected in my understanding.

If my understanding is correct, however, what would be the best way to communicate this to Logos so that only the portion of Matthew 5:43 that quotes the OT is highlighted in search results?

The Literary Type Dataset only categorizes the literary type at the verse level (see the product page). There is no mechanism in that dataset for marking just a part of the verse as a particular type. Results from that dataset should not be interpreted as necessarily applying to every word in the entire verse.

Andrew Batishko | Faithlife software developer

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DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 30 2021 7:38 AM

I think Gordon is suggesting the dataset be refined to actual quotes (as is generally done in Logos resources and footnotes). Maybe a feedback to not cheap it out is in order. Granted, I'm being critical ... why I skipped on L9 features.

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Gordon Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 30 2021 8:54 AM

Andrew Batishko:

There is no mechanism in that dataset for marking just a part of the verse as a particular type. Results from that dataset should not be interpreted as necessarily applying to every word in the entire verse.

Hi Andrew, thanks for engaging. Doesn't the following image show that there is indeed such a mechanism?

EDIT: I've taken another look at the results returned and I simply don't understand why some parts are highlighted and others not. I have a learning need Big Smile

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Gordon Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 30 2021 9:33 AM

DMB:

I think Gordon is suggesting the dataset be refined to actual quotes (as is generally done in Logos resources and footnotes). Maybe a feedback to not cheap it out is in order.

Nah, I wasn't making a suggestion and I wasn't taking a pop at Logos. Andrew got me right: I thought that the dataset functioned at the level of individual quotations rather than verses, and I was mistaken.

Posts 2
John Brooks Pipher | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 30 2021 11:32 AM

I didn't realize this was the Logos 6 forum! 

I'm trying to find instances of the Lord Jesus quoting from the OT. Still no results. 

Here's a screenshot of my search in Logos 9.1. 

What am I missing?

Thanks!

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Gordon Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 30 2021 11:52 AM

John Brooks Pipher:
 

What am I missing?

You are currently searching your entire library (top left shows "Search Everything for"). You could try changing "Everything" to a Bible version and see if that produces some results.

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Justin Gatlin | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 30 2021 11:52 AM

Your search works for me. It may be that you do not have a high enough package for the requisite datasets.

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Andrew Batishko | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 30 2021 2:56 PM

Gordon Jones:

Doesn't the following image show that there is indeed such a mechanism?

EDIT: I've taken another look at the results returned and I simply don't understand why some parts are highlighted and others not.

The only parts that are highlighted are the parts spoken by Jesus. This is because your search string required an intersection of the OT quote with words that Jesus spoke (that's what WITHIN does).

Compare the difference between the search results for {Speaker <Person Jesus>} and the search results for {Section <LiteraryType Quotation, Old Testament>}. If it helps, limit your search to just Mark 15:34.

Andrew Batishko | Faithlife software developer

Posts 716
Gordon Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 30 2021 6:19 PM

Andrew Batishko:

The only parts that are highlighted are the parts spoken by Jesus. This is because your search string required an intersection of the OT quote with words that Jesus spoke (that's what WITHIN does).

Thanks Andrew Big Smile

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