Where are the "Libraries"?

I have a message into my sales rep to assist me with this (I wouldn't dare try to order over the Internet). Here's my questions:

1. I'm currently a Logos Now member. I take that as allowing me to have access to the L7 engine and all the datasets in L7 automatically.

2. My plan is to remain on Logos Now for the time being and maintain an active Logos Now membership. Therefore, would it be pointless at the moment to purchase the L7 datasets since I'm renting them on Logos Now and plan to continue to do so for the long haul?

3. Would that mean my best option to "move to L7" would be to remain on Logos Now and just purchase a "library" to top off the remaining resources I don't have? The Logos 7 "Ways to Move" page mentions as a Logos Now member, I can purchase a "library" at a "substantial discount" over a base package.

My problem is, I'm not seeing these "libraries" anywhere. The only link I've found is for the L7 Platinum package. It's coming in over $700 on my academic dynamic pricing. It doesn't mention any additional discounts since I have Logos Now, plus it's showing I'm purchasing all the features and datasets I'm already renting in Logos Now.

Apparently I'm looking at the wrong product page, because all I'm seeing is a product page that costs more than any previous Logos upgrade I've ever paid for, doesn't offer me any substantial discounts for being a Logos Now member, and is offering me to purchase features I'm already renting in Logos Now.

Can someone clarify what someone on Logos Now who plans to continue to keep Logos Now needs in order to "top off" their Logos Now copy of L7 with the remaining books that aren't included with Logos Now, and what savings on top of academic and dynamic pricing (percentages will work and I can get with my sales rep to assist me with the finer details) come into effect, and how much of a "substantial discount" are these "libraries" from a base package?

Thanks!

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You are on the right page. There are problems with discounting folks who are Now members and also have academic discounts. I'm going to wait until they get it all straightened out before making a move.

Nathan Parker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/840671#Comment_840671

You are on the right page. There are problems with discounting folks who are Now members and also have academic discounts. I'm going to wait until they get it all straightened out before making a move.

I'm definitely waiting as well (and definitely going through a rep so I don't mess up), but what's a problem with the page I'm on is it shows that I'm purchasing the features I already am renting in Logos Now, whereas the "Ways to Move" page says as a Logos Now member I can just get a "library" versus a "base package" at a "fraction of a cost". I've yet to see that "fraction of a cost".

All I'm seeing is a "base package" paying for features I'm already renting with a total upgrade price higher than any previous Logos upgrade I've ever paid for. If this is "fraction of a cost loyalty membership pricing", it's awful (which of course it isn't).

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/840676#Comment_840676

You are on the right page. There are problems with discounting folks who are Now members and also have academic discounts. I'm going to wait until they get it all straightened out before making a move.

I'm definitely waiting as well (and definitely going through a rep so I don't mess up), but what's a problem with the page I'm on is it shows that I'm purchasing the features I already am renting in Logos Now, whereas the "Ways to Move" page says as a Logos Now member I can just get a "library" versus a "base package" at a "fraction of a cost". I've yet to see that "fraction of a cost".

All I'm seeing is a "base package" paying for features I'm already renting with a total upgrade price higher than any previous Logos upgrade I've ever paid for. If this is "fraction of a cost loyalty membership pricing", it's awful (which of course it isn't).

It's just not marked well. You should have a little asterisk near the top of the page indicating that those features are included for Now members.

Armin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/840678#Comment_840678

I have the same issue: I cannot see how I can purchase only a library upgrade vs purchasing a base-package upgrade. I can also not see what the price difference between the two options is. I assume the webpage is not yet quite up-to-date.

Armin

Deacon Steve

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/840694#Comment_840694

same here ... not clear how you do just the library of resources

[:S]

Lynden O. Williams

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/840704#Comment_840704

same here ... not clear how you do just the library of resources

If you are a Logos Now customer, you pay for the library (Dynamic Discount)the features (datasets) are already factored in the pricing.

Nathan Parker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/840720#Comment_840720

same here ... not clear how you do just the library of resources

If you are a Logos Now customer, you pay for the library (Dynamic Discount)the features (datasets) are already factored in the pricing.

This can't be accurate. From what the Faithlife team referred to earlier, this makes it look like we're paying more with our Logos Now membership loyalty pricing instead of just waiting to go to L7 in the first place. There's got to be something missing that Faithlife hasn't worked out yet.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/840737#Comment_840737

If there are two items in the basket when you click on purchase, delete the dataset item to purchase library only.

If there is only one item, check that it is just the libraries - this is normal if you are a Logos/Verbum Now subscriber.

Keith Pang

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/840768#Comment_840768

How do you check if it is just the libraries? Each time I add a base package to the cart, there is no specification of it is a library only or if it includes the feature sets.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/840771#Comment_840771

Feature sets are clearly marked as such; resources are basically unmarked ... Mark Barnes posted a screen shot earlier in the day.

Keith Pang

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/840790#Comment_840790

Okay. Do you mind linking that post?

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/840792#Comment_840792

Sorry I don't remember enough to do an effective search and I saw it 8-12 hours ago.

Keith Pang

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/840795#Comment_840795

No worries. I'll try and search it out 😳

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/840771#Comment_840771

How do you check if it is just the libraries? Each time I add a base package to the cart, there is no specification of it is a library only or if it includes the feature sets.

Base Package = Library + Feature Set. If you're really buying a Base Package, you'll see two items in your cart.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/840737#Comment_840737

same here ... not clear how you do just the library of resources

If you are a Logos Now customer, you pay for the library (Dynamic Discount)the features (datasets) are already factored in the pricing.

This can't be accurate. From what the Faithlife team referred to earlier, this makes it look like we're paying more with our Logos Now membership loyalty pricing instead of just waiting to go to L7 in the first place. There's got to be something missing that Faithlife hasn't worked out yet.

Compare the two screenshots below. The first shows what non Logos-Now members see — the feature set has a price next to it, and the "Add to cart" price includes both the library price and the feature set price. The second shows what Logos Now members see. There's no price next to Feature Set, and the "Add to cart" price is identical to the library price. If what you see looks like the second screenshot, then everything's working as it should.

Deacon Steve

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/840852#Comment_840852

The responses to this thread have been very helpful. Thank you.

[:)]

Frank Sauer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/840863#Comment_840863

Mark, I understand what you are pointing out here. However there seems to be confusion coming from Faithlife on this matter. I have Logos Now, yet this is the message I receive when looking at upgrade options. For my upgrade price it clearly states that I receive the Logos Full Feature Set - it does not mention any additional charge. Also when I scroll to view "new to you" features included in the price, it shows all the Logos 7 Features I already have working via Logos Now as new. FL would need to correct their advertising and definition of what I receive for this purchase, if indeed I have to pay more to own the full feature set.

Another observation:

On the upgrade page, under the "Feature Set Resources You'll Get" - I select "New to You" and it shows the Full Features I already have with Logos Now - listed as being part of my purchase. They include prices next to them. So if I am not purchasing them, why are they listed as being purchased? Very misleading

Yasmin Stephen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841072#Comment_841072

Another observation:

On the upgrade page, under the "Feature Set Resources You'll Get" - I select "New to You" and it shows the Full Features I already have with Logos Now - listed as being part of my purchase. They include prices next to them. So if I am not purchasing them, why are they listed as being purchased? Very misleading

Somewhere else on the forums, Phil Gons said that the feature set resources will still show as new-to-you for people with Logos Now membership because, to us LN members, they are temporary resources. Logos Now gives access to the feature set, not ownership of them.

Frank Sauer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841160#Comment_841160

I understand we lease them. The confusion is that sales states you have to pay extra for the Feature Set, but the upgrade page lists them as features included in your purchase. To add to the confusion Customer Service just told me that they are included in my upgrade price and not an additional cost. So sales says one thing and Customer Service says another, which lines up with the website.

Which leads to the question is sales giving inaccurate information, or is there inadvertent false advertising telling me that I am receiving the Feature set in my purchase and I'm really not?

Another observation:

On the upgrade page, under the "Feature Set Resources You'll Get" - I select "New to You" and it shows the Full Features I already have with Logos Now - listed as being part of my purchase. They include prices next to them. So if I am not purchasing them, why are they listed as being purchased? Very misleading

Somewhere else on the forums, Phil Gons said that the feature set resources will still show as new-to-you for people with Logos Now membership because, to us LN members, they are temporary resources. Logos Now gives access to the feature set, not ownership of them.

Yasmin Stephen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841175#Comment_841175

I understand we lease them. The confusion is that sales states you have to pay extra for the Feature Set, but the upgrade page lists them as features included in your purchase. To add to the confusion Customer Service just told me that they are included in my upgrade price and not an additional cost. So sales says one thing and Customer Service says another, which lines up with the website.

In this scenario, I would say that Sales is right and CS is wrong. Maybe someone from Faithlife will come along and give a definitive answer.

Which leads to the question is sales giving inaccurate information, or is there inadvertent false advertising telling me that I am receiving the Feature set in my purchase and I'm really not?

This thread may be helpful, especially Eli's response. The way they've worded the L7 product pages (and also left out disclaimers, especially for the LN people) is unfortunate. And while they've acknowledged it, there's no fix yet, which means ensuing confusion as more people make/attempt to make purchases.

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841175#Comment_841175

To add to the confusion Customer Service just told me that they are included in my upgrade price and not an additional cost. So sales says one thing and Customer Service says another, which lines up with the website.
Which leads to the question is sales giving inaccurate information, or is there inadvertent false advertising telling me that I am receiving the Feature set in my purchase and I'm really not?

The reality is that if you have Logos Now and want to buy a Logos 7 'base package', you will click, and one resource will show up in your cart, for whatever price. That resource is the library. Libraries do not include features.

If you don't have Logos Now and want to buy a Logos 7 'base package', you will click, and two resources will show up in your cart, for whatever prices. Those resources are the library and a feature set. If you don't want the feature set, you can remove it from your cart.

All words to the contrary notwithstanding.

Frank Sauer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841207#Comment_841207

Again... I understand that what you are saying is what is being said. However when purchasing an upgrade, it does not reflect this. It clearly states that I'm purchasing a Base Package not library. Clearly states that the Feature Set IS included and the Full Feature Set is clearly listed under the What You'll Get Features section as New to Me.

So despite what Sales is saying, the purchase process contradicts that and is falsely representing what is included. Not to mention Sales told me to contact Customer Service about this concern for the answer and CS said the website iscorrect the Feature Set is included.

To add to the confusion Customer Service just told me that they are included in my upgrade price and not an additional cost. So sales says one thing and Customer Service says another, which lines up with the website.
Which leads to the question is sales giving inaccurate information, or is there inadvertent false advertising telling me that I am receiving the Feature set in my purchase and I'm really not?

The reality is that if you have Logos Now and want to buy a Logos 7 'base package', you will click, and one resource will show up in your cart, for whatever price. That resource is the library. Libraries do not include features.

If you don't have Logos Now and want to buy a Logos 7 'base package', you will click, and two resources will show up in your cart, for whatever prices. Those resources are the library and a feature set. If you don't want the feature set, you can remove it from your cart.

All words to the contrary notwithstanding.

Nathan Parker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841219#Comment_841219

Thanks everyone for trying to clarify, but I'm in a similar boat to Frank. When I visit my page, it's saying the Logos 7 Feature Set will be included with my purchase of Platinum, that I'll be upgrading to the Feature Set, and It even shows me what featured in the Feature Set I'll be purchasing with Platinum. It's also own my showing academic discounts for me and not showing any Logos Now discounts.

When I add the item to my cart, it's showing it's been added to my cart in a message, but when I visit my shopping cart, it's saying no items in your cart. So I can't even get to the item in my cart to determine what I'd be purchasing to get an estimated price (hence why I also have a message into my sales rep).

When I look at what books will be "new to me" versus the price tag (over $700), this cannot be the correct price. There's a couple of good sets that would be new to me, but there isn't a great amount of new resources I'd be getting that justifies over $700 to upgrade especially after already subscribing to Logos Now for the datasets. This is more than I've ever paid for a Logos base package upgrade before with datasets and everything included (and a far better selection of resources to boot).

Frank Sauer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841242#Comment_841242

Here's an update. Since there is so much confusion within FL on this. I just ordered the Feature Set only and it, as Sales says is a separate charge. My upgrade price did not change.

This unfortunately means that FL is indeed at this time falsely advertising what is included. It needs to be corrected, as to not falsely advertise and mislead people inadvertently.

Nathan Parker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841175#Comment_841175

I just talked with my sales rep. Seems the price on the page is my correct price. Since I had an active payment plan, I'm asking how much my payment plan will increase and how long he can extend it out to, but I'm going to have to think long and hard about this before springing for it right away. I'm not impressed that my L7 upgrade is costing more for just books than I've paid for any previous Logos upgrade which included datasets and all, and while there's a handful of resources I'd use, I'm still not sure I'd get all my upgrade price worth.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841252#Comment_841252

This unfortunately means that FL is indeed at this time falsely advertising what is included

Rather than false, I believe the term is "too subtle" - the asterisk and included in Now membership intended to convey you were not purchasing the datasets.

Frank Sauer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841286#Comment_841286

Nathan, I do somewhat agree with you. I do believe the upgrade from V6 to V7 is heavy on the Feature and Dataset side. With the discount we get for being Logos Now subscribers, I grabbed the Full Feature Set for what I do consider a very good deal.

As for the resource offerings, I do believe past upgrades have been more appeasing. Standard Platinum does intrigue me with with AYBD and the Hermeneia/Continental Commentaries, not sure I value the overall content for the price either.

Overall, whether I decide to go with a library upgrade or not, I am excited to lock in the Features without being tied to Now going forward.

Frank Sauer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841297#Comment_841297

Disagree MJ.

The asterisk does not eliminate the clear statements that the Feature Set is included on both the Greeting Block as I showed in the screen shot I posted, as well as clearly stating that I would receive them in the What You'll Get section and listed under "New to You". It is inadvertent false advertising. Intent vs Reality in sales is not a valid excuse for what is very misleading.

When you are purchasing a product and it clearly states you are receiving something, but you are not... That is false advertising.

This unfortunately means that FL is indeed at this time falsely advertising what is included

Rather than false, I believe the term is "too subtle" - the asterisk and included in Now membership intended to convey you were not purchasing the datasets.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841297#Comment_841297

This unfortunately means that FL is indeed at this time falsely advertising what is included

Rather than false, I believe the term is "too subtle" - the asterisk and included in Now membership intended to convey you were not purchasing the datasets.

"False" is strong, although to be fair to Frank, he frequently said "inadvertently false". But "too subtle" is far too weak, IMO. What the page says is misleading at best. For people who aren't buying the Feature Set, it's not too subtle, it's wrong, and it should be fixed.

Nathan Parker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841300#Comment_841300

Nathan, I do somewhat agree with you. I do believe the upgrade from V6 to V7 is heavy on the Feature and Dataset side. With the discount we get for being Logos Now subscribers, I grabbed the Full Feature Set for what I do consider a very good deal.

As for the resource offerings, I do believe past upgrades have been more appeasing. Standard Platinum does intrigue me with with AYBD and the Hermeneia/Continental Commentaries, not sure I value the overall content for the price either.

Overall, whether I decide to go with a library upgrade or not, I am excited to lock in the Features without being tied to Now going forward.

The Full Feature Set price isn't too bad (especially for Logos Now members). Since I have Logos Now, I'll likely continue with it instead of purchasing the Full Featue Set.

Past upgrades have definitely been more appealing on resources. There's a few things out of Platinum I'd use (Hermeneia would be nice to have), but I am surprised at the price for just the books. It's fewer books and fewer excellent resources for more money.

Nathan Parker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841369#Comment_841369

This unfortunately means that FL is indeed at this time falsely advertising what is included

Rather than false, I believe the term is "too subtle" - the asterisk and included in Now membership intended to convey you were not purchasing the datasets.

"False" is strong, although to be fair to Frank, he frequently said "inadvertently false". But "too subtle" is far too weak, IMO. What the page says is misleading at best. For people who aren't buying the Feature Set, it's not too subtle, it's wrong, and it should be fixed.

It definitely need fixing for sure. It certainly makes one think they're purchasing the datasets and features when purchasing the library. I saw the asterisks about Logos Now, but it makes it look like one is still purchasing the featured on top of renting them in Logos Now.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841451#Comment_841451

It definitely need fixing for sure.

In another post: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/129488/841426.aspx#841426

We're actively working on improving this part of the page for Logos Now members. It's confusing as laid out, and we apologize. You should see the updates live shortly.

Nathan Parker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841458#Comment_841458

It definitely need fixing for sure.

In another post: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/129488/841426.aspx#841426

We're actively working on improving this part of the page for Logos Now members. It's confusing as laid out, and we apologize. You should see the updates live shortly.

Great. Thanks for the update.

Glenn Airoldi (Faithlife)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841466#Comment_841466

Looking at what is actually added to your cart per Mark's suggestion is the easiest way to get a definitive answer to "What am I purchasing?".

In your cart, Logos 7 Library skus will be clearly named as libraries, and Logos 7 Feature Set skus will be clearly named as feature sets.

If it's not in your cart, you're not purchasing it, nor are you being charged for it.

The grey box that explains what is being included in a base package is being updated to reflect what is included in your purchase. This is an important nuance, given that Logos Now members are not required to purchase a base package, and we're not adding the feature set skus to cart for Logos Now members from these pages to ensure people don't pay for something they already "lease" access to.

Nathan Parker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841489#Comment_841489

Looking at what is actually added to your cart per Mark's suggestion is the easiest way to get a definitive answer to "What am I purchasing?".

In your cart, Logos 7 Library skus will be clearly named as libraries, and Logos 7 Feature Set skus will be clearly named as feature sets.

If it's not in your cart, you're not purchasing it, nor are you being charged for it.

The grey box that explains what is being included in a base package is being updated to reflect what is included in your purchase. This is an important nuance, given that Logos Now members are not required to purchase a base package, and we're not adding the feature set skus to cart for Logos Now members from these pages to ensure people don't pay for something they already "lease" access to.

Problem is when I added it to the cart then visited the cart, the cart was empty. I couldn't get the cart working reliably enough to see what I was getting.

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841369#Comment_841369

I have been saying for a long time this business had a real problem with being able to communicate with its customers in a truthful manner. This just highlights that problem again. Internally the left hand doesn't seem to be communicating with the right hand and we end up with this sort of debacle. The leadership of this company need to start actually listening to its customers and sorting out its internal communications so that what actually ends up being communicared to customer's is clear, accurate and beyond reproof.

Nathan Parker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841493#Comment_841493

I have been saying for a long time this business had a real problem with being able to communicate with its customers in a truthful manner. This just highlights that problem again. Internally the left hand doesn't seem to be communicating with the right hand and we end up with this sort of debacle. The leadership of this company need to start actually listening to its customers and sorting out its internal communications so that what actually ends up being communicared to customer's is clear, accurate and beyond reproof.

I agree. By the way, if Logos is interested in hiring a remote consultant to improve communications, I'd be happy to assist. I'll work for free books. :-)

It sounds humorous, but in a way I'm serious. I've had to work to improve communications for other companies, so I'd be happy to bring it to Faithlife.