No NEW Journals - why not?

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This post has 759 Replies | 26 Followers

Posts 1962
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 22 2018 7:10 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
I'm sorry for the delay in releasing journal updates and the lack of regular communication. Our plans for quarterly updates stalled out when new collections did get funded quickly enough.

September 25, 2017

Posts 1962
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 22 2018 7:13 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
We'll provide concrete details as soon as we have them. We've responded to acknowledge that we've seen the discussion and let you know we're working on it. We're trying to avoid sharing details that aren't yet final.

September 27, 2017.

I would suggest that it is wise to share something even when there are no details to share.  Just getting on and acknowledging that the project is not dead and that a team is still working on it, is helpful.  And of course if a team is still working on it, then there must be something to report, even if it is little

Posts 1962
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 22 2018 7:16 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

Charlene:

Any update as to when the next bundle of new journals available?

We're finalizing the details and hope to have them up on Pre-Pub in the next couple of weeks.

April 17, 2018

Posts 1962
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 22 2018 7:17 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

June 8, 2018

Finally, something positive!

Posts 1962
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 22 2018 7:19 PM

Mark:

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

Galaxie releases their annual updates every October/November. We release our updates as we get them (aiming for quarterly, ideally). So our TJL upgrade bundle will usually be ahead of the Galaxie TJL where there's overlap. That's out of our control, unless you prefer we no longer ship journals more frequently and hold them back until the end of the year, which doesn't seem ideal to me.

There's really nothing to be confused about. Just pre-order everything you're interested in and let dynamic pricing for Pre-Pubs take care of the rest. There's nothing to lose.

What else isn't clear?

From this message dated June 11, 2018, I suppose we may hear something by Christmas...

Posts 878
LogosEmployee
Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 22 2018 7:25 PM

Mark:
I would suggest that it is wise to share something even when there are no details to share.  Just getting on and acknowledging that the project is not dead and that a team is still working on it, is helpful.  And of course if a team is still working on it, then there must be something to report, even if it is little

Hey Mark,

We posted the Master Journal Bundle 4.1 and a few other journals bundles earlier in the year. We're waiting for these to get sufficient funding to put them into production.

Manager, Bible Study Products Department

Posts 1962
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 22 2018 7:29 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

Mattillo:
Any updates on the Galaxie Theological Journal Library or the 4.1 Journal Upgrades?

Both are waiting for sufficient funding to move into production.

October 1, 2018

So now my questions: There are several journal packages now.  Are ALL those various packages waiting for sufficient funding to move into production?  or just a few such as GTJ?

It appears to the average customer that the journal project died a long time ago, that there is no real desire on the part of Faithlife to revive it. That is okay if it is true.  And of course it is wonderful news if it is not true.  But what is not okay is being strung along with no real updates on what is going on. 

Sometimes there is nothing really to report.  But getting on the forum post and reporting that there is nothing to report is actually helpful to customers to know that the project has not been abandoned. This thread did mention that there was a TEAM working on this project.  Is there still a team working on this project as of October 22, 2018?  What has happened since the last report that a team was working on this?

Please provide an update, even if the update is not encouraging.  If some kind of update came on quarterly basis...an update on the status of the journal project, it can be helpful. 

Very possibly there is lack of funding because many have already abandoned hope in the project.  A little bit of news can reverse that if it is true.

Posts 1962
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 22 2018 7:32 PM

Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife):
We posted the Master Journal Bundle 4.1 and a few other journals bundles earlier in the year. We're waiting for these to get sufficient funding to put them into production.

Thanks for posting something.  I did not see this before my last post with my questions.  I would appreciate some responses to those questions (at least the relevant ones)

Posts 692
Kevin A Lewis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 23 2018 1:29 AM

Hi         Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife)

Thanks for your response

However I think this exhibits a rather unhelpful approach to the publication of Logos Journals.

You need to get a 'growing' number of people on board with getting their journals IN Logos. Surely that means a regular, reliable and fairly frequent supply. Much like a subscription - but maybe not using the Logos meaning of the term.

So why are we told we must wait until there is 'funding' - this may make financial sense - but surely not sound commercial and promotional sense. These would be an investment in the health of the idea of Journals within Logos. These constant delays are just putting more and more people off and they are going elsewhere - or even resorting to the paper alternative.

I challenge Faithlife to the think more radically.

If I am wrong please provide convincing rationale for your actions that will make sense to your 'buying public'.

Shalom

Posts 1015
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 23 2018 2:20 AM

I agree with Kevin... lets have: you buy the back catalogue in a bundle and at $5 a month subscription it always stays up to date with new journals and you own them! That actually approximates close to the cost offered anyway. Logos gains reliable revenue and we gain reliable journals! WIN-WIN Just like a magazine subscription in paper would be.

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 5148
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 23 2018 2:21 AM

Totally agree with you Kevin, Logos needs to either move these journals into production or to stop toying with there customers that they are in the journal business. 

Kevin A Lewis:

Hi Mark

Thanks for your response

However I think this exhibits a rather unhelpful approach to the publication of Logos Journals.

You need to get a 'growing' number of people on board with getting their journals IN Logos. Surely that means a regular, reliable and fairly frequent supply. Much like a subscription - but maybe not using the Logos meaning of the term.

So why are we told we must wait until there is 'funding' - this may make financial sense - but surely not sound commercial and promotional sense. These would be an investment in the health of the idea of Journals within Logos. These constant delays are just putting more and more people off and they are going elsewhere - or even resorting to the paper alternative.

I challenge Faithlife to the think more radically.

If I am wrong please provide convincing rationale for your actions that will make sense to your 'buying public'.

Shalom

Posts 4772
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 23 2018 3:03 AM

I'm going to say it again...only about 5% of the Journals that FL has provided thus far ever show up in my Logos links (or my hard copy bibliographies, for that matter). There are about 15-25 journals that turn up regularly in my bibliographies and links that have literally thousands of references in Logos, but they remain dead links. WHY?????????

I think I've already listed some of them in this thread: VT, NT, HTR, CBQ, HUCA, just to reference a few...these are extremely common journals with TONS of relevant information that is locked out of the Logos user experience. THAT NEEDS TO CHANGE. Until these are part of the Logos stable, FL is just playing games.

Posts 611
Dave Thawley | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 23 2018 3:22 AM

David Paul:

I'm going to say it again...only about 5% of the Journals that FL has provided thus far ever show up in my Logos links (or my hard copy bibliographies, for that matter). There are about 15-25 journals that turn up regularly in my bibliographies and links that have literally thousands of references in Logos, but they remain dead links. WHY?????????

I think I've already listed some of them in this thread: VT, NT, HTR, CBQ, HUCA, just to reference a few...these are extremely common journals with TONS of relevant information that is locked out of the Logos user experience. THAT NEEDS TO CHANGE. Until these are part of the Logos stable, FL is just playing games.

I agree. In a world class product like Logos I would expect to be able to access the best journals. I don't mind paying for them but its a real shame that they are not available. 

Posts 1996
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 23 2018 4:49 AM

Kevin A Lewis:

Hi Mark

Thanks for your response

However I think this exhibits a rather unhelpful approach to the publication of Logos Journals.

You need to get a 'growing' number of people on board with getting their journals IN Logos. Surely that means a regular, reliable and fairly frequent supply. Much like a subscription - but maybe not using the Logos meaning of the term.

So why are we told we must wait until there is 'funding' - this may make financial sense - but surely not sound commercial and promotional sense. These would be an investment in the health of the idea of Journals within Logos. These constant delays are just putting more and more people off and they are going elsewhere - or even resorting to the paper alternative.

I challenge Faithlife to the think more radically.

If I am wrong please provide convincing rationale for your actions that will make sense to your 'buying public'.

Shalom

This, and to reiterate:

People bought the journal collections because they were told that they would be updated (no one said that we would have to wait for funding each time). 

The fact that this promise has been broken will only drive people away, making it unlikely that journals will get funded, creating a vicious cycle and leaving those who invested in journals stuck.

In order to get people excited about journals in Logos, you guys are going to have to show some consistency and investment.  Only then will people be willing to purchase them again.  

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 1962
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 23 2018 5:26 AM

Kevin A Lewis:

Hi Mark

Thanks for your response

However I think this exhibits a rather unhelpful approach to the publication of Logos Journals.

You need to get a 'growing' number of people on board

Hi Kevin

Did you mean me or Ben?  I am a customer just like you. I am not the one who needs to get a growing number of people on board.  There are many interested in journals.  If that number has diminished, it is due to lack of communication on the part of Faithlife that may have caused people to give up and purchase their journals elsewhere.

I am asking questions.  I am not the one that needs to respond.

Is there still a team working on the project?  Or is the project dead?

Do ALL the journal offerings need more funding?

Why the pattern of silence on this project?  Why not give quarterly or regular updates?

Kevin, I am going to assume that you meant Ben and not me.

Posts 692
Kevin A Lewis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 23 2018 5:39 AM

Oops I meant Ben from Faithlife - sorry Mark

I should pay closer attention - original post now corrected

Shalom

Posts 3311
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 23 2018 5:47 AM

The entire point of journals is to get the latest research on a certain topic... If you have to wait a year for "sufficient funding" to come you'll always be behind the curve. 

I must say that I don't understand this thought process and I must have misread/misunderstood something somewhere.  I took it as Logos would be pushing through journals on a regular basis no matter what.  I would think that a majority of people aren't interested in journals but if you want your software to be relevant to universities and professors they need the latest research.  Could they get it elsewhere?  Most definitely but to show the worth of your system I would think you want it in Logos.  I must say this turn of developments disappoints me.

I've never really been a fan of the whole prepub system.  Yes it is nice to get a discount but when books are held hostage it seems that quite a few end up in limbo or cancelled.  Without mentioning other softwares, it seems they are able to get resources in without the need for this process which I would think would make people buy resources from there instead.  When Logos finally gets the resource, people already own it elsewhere and then the loyal ones who waited get stuck because no one wants to own it twice.  I understand Logos wants to be conservative with their money but I do think they need to start biting the bullet and taking some chances on resources and putting them into production without this process.  It seems some resources do skip this process but how that decision is made, I'm not privy to.  I say this because I love Logos and I hate to watch the competition continue to gather other resources while Logos just sits there and watches the prepub timer with unfinished commentary collections, journals, and other resources.  It is frustrating to say the least.

I hope this changes someday... and if I'm in the minority I'll go sit in the corner and be quiet.

Posts 10309
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 23 2018 6:09 AM

Joseph Turner:

This, and to reiterate:

People bought the journal collections because they were told that they would be updated (no one said that we would have to wait for funding each time). 

The fact that this promise has been broken will only drive people away, making it unlikely that journals will get funded, creating a vicious cycle and leaving those who invested in journals stuck.

In order to get people excited about journals in Logos, you guys are going to have to show some consistency and investment.  Only then will people be willing to purchase them again.  

Don't know about a promise, but I thought it was a regular update. Not a regular funding question.  Though my impression is a lot of projects are on the shelf (eg CP, etc). I assume a customer issue.

But the journal pricing strategy insures failure .. each update makes the product less desirable for new participants.


Posts 692
Kevin A Lewis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 23 2018 7:13 AM

Denise:

But the journal pricing strategy insures failure .. each update makes the product less desirable for new participants.

Hi Denise

I believe I understand what you are saying here, as you haven't explained. But it might be worth spelling it out for those who aren't following your thinking and to ensure others like myself who 'think' they know what you mean are actually correct.

My guess is that you are referring to the cumulative aspects of the various 2.0, 2.1, 3.1 and 4.1 journal collections.

Shalom

Posts 13368
Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 23 2018 7:38 AM

If it takes this long to get enough orders, then the pre-pubs should be launched 9-12 months earlier to ensure there isn’t an unnecessary delay.

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