How to identify words added by translators in ESV using Visual Filter?
Hi all,
This is my first time I ask a question in this forum. I'm just wondering if I can create a Visual Filter which identifies the words which are not in the original manuscripts, but added by the translators in ESV?
Many thanks,
Wes
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Hi Wes - and welcome to the forums
Wes Saad said:This is my first time I ask a question in this forum. I'm just wondering if I can create a Visual Filter which identifies the words which are not in the original manuscripts, but added by the translators in ESV?
I'm afraid there isn't any realistic way to do this at the moment.
Dave Hooton outlined a possible approach at https://community.logos.com/forums/p/152817/931983.aspx#931983 but pointed out that it would take much too long to work as a Visual Filter.
I can't think of any effective way to do it
Graham
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Wes Saad said:
I'm just wondering if I can create a Visual Filter which identifies the words which are not in the original manuscripts, but added by the translators in ESV?
+1 [Y] Welcome [:D]
Graham Criddle said:I can't think of any effective way to do it
+1 not know a way to highlight translator supplied words.
Work around is using Inline Interlinear that has dots for translator supplied words:
KJV italics indicate translator supplied word(s).
Searching for Strong's Numbers only finds primary word translation:
Morph search also finds primary translation word in reverse interlinears.
Greek verbal declension (spelling) can include number of people so translation has corresponding pronoun along with verb. Reverse interlinear has morphology and Strong's aligned with primary translation word: e.g. verb.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Thank you so much Graham and Keep Smiling for your responses.
Let me give you the actual real life problem, maybe that will help to narrow down the solution (If you can help).
As I preach on weekly basis verse by verse, I use ESV but I compare the passage at hand with other bibles so that is good because NASB and NKJV format those words italic. However, if I ever wanna do a quick reference to other verses (and I do that a lot), it's not practical to check every single time which word is added by the translators. and so I think having a VF would be a perfect solution. (unless you have a different opinion)
p.s. I'm interested ONLY in the words that have a corresponding dot "." in the manuscript. Not the ones that arrows.
If you can help me, I will be most thankful person in the world to your help..:-)
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Hi Wes
Wes Saad said:and so I think having a VF would be a perfect solution. (unless you have a different opinion)
I think this would be a great solution and very useful.
Following up on this thread I made a suggestion yesterday - https://community.logos.com/forums/t/158698.aspx - how this could be implemented and it is being looked at. But it would involve a change in the programme and no guarantees it will happen.
But the underlying capability might help.
As shown in my post there the "Propositional Outlines" Visual Filter does show when words have been supplied in translation.
So when you are referencing other verses you could use this as a quick visual check.
Not perfect but it might help a little
Graham
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Hi Graham,
Unfortunately, there are some words that are not listed as "Supplied" as per below
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Hi Wes
Wes Saad said:Unfortunately, there are some words that are not listed as "Supplied" as per below
That looks like a tagging omission which can - hopefully - be rectified.
Have you seen many examples like this?
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Graham Criddle said:
Have you seen many examples like this?
Having asked the question I see there are examples in the NIV for the same verse
I'll flag this and see what response I get
Edit: I've asked the question at https://community.logos.com/forums/t/158714.aspx
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Wes Saad said:
However, if I ever wanna do a quick reference to other verses (and I do that a lot), it's not practical to check every single time which word is added by the translators. and so I think having a VF would be a perfect solution. (unless you have a different opinion)
Thankful for visual filter highlighting so can "see" range of Greek verbal expression. Logos wiki has => Examples of visual filters that was later followed by thread => more inductive symbols
Visual filter highlighting lets me "see" corresponding words between Greek and English translations, which is also useful for seeing different words used by translators.
FYI: Philippians 4:4 has "the" supplied by translators to reflect definiteness from preposition. Greek definite article is not present (anarthrous).
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Visual filter highlighting lets me "see" corresponding words between Greek and English translations, which is also useful for seeing different words used by translators.
Yes - but I don't think it helps in this case as there is no underlying original word.
Or am I missing something?
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Hi Keep Smiling, while that is not the answer for the question I was looking for, as I wanted to identify ONLY the words added by the translators (the words with corresponding "." in the manuscript), I really like this display that you have... How can I get my Logos display the bible with all these colours?
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Graham Criddle said:
Visual filter highlighting lets me "see" corresponding words between Greek and English translations, which is also useful for seeing different words used by translators.
Yes - but I don't think it helps in this case as there is no underlying original word.
Or am I missing something?
Indirectly useful since word(s) added by translator(s) are not highlighted while appearing between highlighted corresponding words. Word(s) are added for smooth English or dynamic thought expression. Translation is an intersection of original language meaning with target translation expression.
Wes Saad said:Hi Keep Smiling, while that is not the answer for the question I was looking for, as I wanted to identify ONLY the words added by the translators (the words with corresponding "." in the manuscript), I really like this display that you have... How can I get my Logos display the bible with all these colours?
Following Faithlife group Logos Visual Filters => https://faithlife.com/logos-visual-filters/activity allows visual filter documents to be freely copied to your Faithlife account => https://faithlife.com/logos-visual-filters/documents
Discourse Features (Greek) has six items checked: grey text for background information (context). Bold text is emphasis (words out of nominal sequence for emphasis). Discourse Datasets and Visual Filters was new for Logos 7 (previously available for Now members).
Screen shot of Bible Comparison has many visual filters enabled. First one is Discourse Analysis
Clicking Actions causes pop-up => clicking Copy causes visual filter and highlighting palette to be copied.
Thread discussion => more inductive symbols included sharing of five "Inductive - Palette" visual filters and associated highlighting palette
Caveat: Inductive - Precept inserting of graphic has display issues with Inline Interlinear.
"Logos Greek Morphology -" visual filters were created using Logos 4, which are usable in Logos 7 and Verbum 7
Earlier screen shot had three Bibles with Reverse Interlinear plus SBL Greek NT in a Link Set with these "Logos Greek Morphology -" filters enabled:
Many visual filters allows one(s) to be enabled as desired. Nominative Case has been superseded by Logos 7 Syntactic Force dataset that is used by SGNT visual filters. Neuter nouns have the same spelling for nominative and accusative cases so context determines whether usage is subject or object.
After copying visual filters => https://faithlife.com/logos-visual-filters/documents need to sync your Logos or Verbum installation with Faithlife servers so documents are copied. Next open Bible resource followed by clicking Visual Filter menu (three dots) so can check items appropriately.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Here's an idea. It's not perfect, but it may be useful.
Set up a visual filter with the following search that applies a Gray Foreground.
Use this search if you want to see words with a "•" or an "→" in the manuscript line: <H1-8678>, <G1-5877>
Use this search if you want to only see words with a "•" in the manuscript line: {Section <PropositionalOutline = Accompaniment>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Action>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Address>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Affirmation>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Agency>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Alternative>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Answer>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Appeal>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Appeal (Neg.)>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Arrival>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Attention>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Background-Action>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Background-Antecedent>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Background-Arrival>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Background-Characterization>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Background-Comparison>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Background-Condition>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Background-Departure>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Background-Divine-Action>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Background-Event>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Background-Exclamation>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Background-Experience>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Background-Instrument>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Background-Jesus-Action>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Background-Location>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Background-Manner>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Background-Precedent>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Background-Quotation>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Background-Reason>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Background-Reminder>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Background-Request>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Background-Response>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Background-Speech>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Background-Status>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Background-Temporal>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Basis>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Beatitude>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Benefit>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Cause>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Characterization>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Clarification>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Command>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Command (Neg.)>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Comparison>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Concern>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Concession>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Conclusion>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Condition>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Confession>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Consequence>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Continuation>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Contradiction>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Contrast>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Co-occurrence>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Correction>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Denial>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Departure>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Divine-Action>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Doxology>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Elaboration>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Else>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Emphasis>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Enumeration>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Escalation>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Event>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Exclamation>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Exhortation>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Exhortation (Neg.)>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Expansion>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Experience>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Explanation>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Farewell>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Fulfillment>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Genealogy>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Greeting>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Hypothetical>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Illustration>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Implication>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Incomplete>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Inference>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Instrument>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Interpretation>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Invocation>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Jesus-Action>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = List-Item>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Location>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Mandate>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Mandate (Neg.)>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Manner>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Miseritude>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Oath>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Oath-Basis>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Parable>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Parenthetical>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Possibility>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Prayer>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Precedent>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Prediction>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Profession>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Promise>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Pronouncement>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Proverb>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Purpose>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Purpose (Neg.)>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Qualification>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Question>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Question (No)>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Question (Yes)>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Quotation>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Reason>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Recipient>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Rejection>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Reminder>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Reorientation>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Request>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Request (Neg.)>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Response>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Restatement>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Result>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Revelation>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Sender>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Setting>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Slogan>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Source>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Speech>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Sphere>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Status>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Subsequent>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Suggestion>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Summary>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Superscription>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Supplied>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Surety>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Temporal>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Thanksgiving>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Topic>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Ultimate>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Validation>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Wish (Neg.)>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Wish (Pos.)>}, {Section <PropositionalOutline = Witness>},
Andrew Batishko | Logos software developer
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Here's an idea. It's not perfect, but it may be useful.
Nice thinking Andrew[Y]
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Set up a visual filter with the following search that applies a Gray Foreground.
<H1-8678>, <G1-5877>
More complex Propositional Outline search included secondary translation words while searching for Strong's Numbers only finds primary translation word in Reverse Interlinear. For example, Luke 1:38 complex search did not find "I am" while <G1-5877> search does not find "I am", "of the", "let it", "to", & "to" that is both supplied words (dot in Inline Interlinear) and secondary words (arrows in Inline Interlinear).
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Thanks, KS4J. I edit the post above to include both options.
Andrew Batishko | Logos software developer
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It's unfortunate that the publisher simply didn't use italics for added words.
Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!
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This is a valid editorial choice. Fact is, the idea that "added words" are extrinsic or artificial (as in adding artifices) in proper translation is highly debatable. Also, there are cons to indicating added words by italics.
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Italics are unnecessary in my opinion. There is no one to one correlation for every single word and the syntax does not work the same for Eglish so as a result there has to be "added" words
Keith Pang, PhD Check out my blog @ https://keithkpang.wixsite.com/magnifyingjesus
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Set up a visual filter with the following search that applies a Gray Foreground.
Use this search if you want to see words with a "•" or an "→" in the manuscript line: <H1-8678>, <G1-5877>
This is among the most helpful VFs I've seen in the forums. Is the daunting second option even necessary? How was it generated? Under what instances does it prove useful?
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.3 1TB SSD
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Keith Pang said:
Italics are unnecessary in my opinion. There is no one to one correlation for every single word and the syntax does not work the same for English so as a result there has to be "added" words
Thanks Keith. A breath of sanity. I was thinking that I was going crackers with what seemed to be everyone else making a big deal about so called added words.
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Beloved said:
Set up a visual filter with the following search that applies a Gray Foreground.
Use this search if you want to see words with a "•" or an "→" in the manuscript line: <H1-8678>, <G1-5877>
This is among the most helpful VFs I've seen in the forums. Is the daunting second option even necessary? How was it generated? Under what instances does it prove useful?
It depends on what you are interested in.
"→" indicates a surface text word that is considered part of a "phrase" translation of an underlying original language word.
"•" indicates a surface text word that isn't associated with any particular underlying original language word at all. Generally these are added to improve readability.
The longer query was formed from the list of all valid Propositional Outline types. This could have been built from the list of types in the Propositional Outline glossary. Since the entire original language text is covered by some propositional outline marker, it essentially is searching for everything that is associated with original language text, leaving only the "•" items not marked up.
Andrew Batishko | Logos software developer
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Hi all,
Thank you so much for all of your help... After spending many, many hours trying to figure out how to replicate what you showed me, I realised that I need the "Extended Features" but I only have the Logos 7 "Full Features". So I don't think I can even create a workaround.
That's ok, I'll have to resort to the traditional way of solving my problem... (Manually)...
I can't afford to upgrade to the "Extended Features" [:(]
Thanks once again for all your suggestions.
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Hi Wes
“Full Feature” has the Propositional Outline dataset so Andrew’s suggestion should work for you.
What do you think you are missing?
Graham
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Wow... thank you so much, yes I was doing something wrong but now it's working...
Thank you Graham for your suggestion and thank you Andrew for the workaround... :-)
Is there anyway I can negate this query? meaning to grey out the words with "." rather than the everything else? this way, I could still have Jesus letters in RED and all my previous highlights would be visible?
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You could try some other kind of visual filter such as a smaller font size or a different font.
Unfortunately, for reasons detailed in the rest of the thread, there isn't a practical way to search for the words you want, only a way to search for the words you don't want.
Andrew Batishko | Logos software developer
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Perfect, I formatted the text to Larger text. This works much better for me.
God bless you guys :-)
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